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    • You posted in a solid block of text and it's rather difficult to read. Please will you make sure that your posts future are properly spaced and punctuated and that way people will find it easier to give you the help and support you need.
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    • Hi all I used to be a member here a few years ago when I went through a bad time - husband and I had bad health, both lost jobs etc, we got the usual helpful and sympathetic response from the bank.   With the help of CAG I did my best to fight back and found that some debts were legally unenforceable as well as the usual defective defaults and everyting else the banks were doing wrong. We're going back to about 2009/10.   With HSBC they refused to provide a SAR/CCA because I wouldn't provide a signature that matched their records. I remember I took the advice from CAG at the time NOT to sign.  in any case, due to my injury I was unable to do anything except scrawl. I told them that I didn't think the SAR required a signature and in abny case I couldn't. In short they refused to cooperate, there as a series of letters but they cited the DPA, at which point I pointed out that they were sending me demands, statements and theatening letters but only now were they saying they had to verify my ID (at that point, the bank said that they wouldn't send any more statements/demands etc until my Id could be confirmed (seriously, you couldn't make it up). I also pointed out that the guidance from the ICO was that if they were responding to the address they has on record and was the usual contact address, they could assume it was their customer writing to them. I even complained to the ICO who, as usual took the bank's side.   Eventually, I said to the bank that if they were unable to give me details of the alledged debt then I was unable to consider their demands and verify the situation and I wouldn't correspond with them any more and they could go to court if they liked. But, if they did lodge court papers, and sent the statements etc I'd immediately complain to the ICO that they hadn't verfied my ID acording to their own procedures (something the ICO had agreed was required), and I'd bring it to teh attention of teh court that they had deliberately not sent me the data to allow it to be resolved one way or teh other. If they didn't send the stuff through discovery, I'd lodge an embarassed defence and ask for it to be struck out as I had been asking for the records for 6 months or more.  I didn't hear any more from them, that was in March 2011.   In Nov 2015 I got a letter from Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2 Ltd that they has been assigned the rights from MKDP LLP and giving bottom Robinson Way's address. I hadn't heard of MKDP before and simply ignored it. I certainly wasn't aware it had be assigned to them in the first place.   A few days ago, I got a letter from Hoist again asking for payment. I intended to ignore it except for a letter I got from the Bank this morning.   The letter is the same one that has been mention on here very recently, a refund from the bank for £25 because they had determined I hadn't recived the correct level of service (no sh*t Sherlock!) The account number is NOT my currect account. It MAY be my credit card, but I seem to remeber they were rolled into one. I don't seem to have any correspondence about the CC, and I destroyed all paper documents a few months ago. All I have is scanned copies of letters (which may not be a complete record, but should be).   I received a letter in Nov 2017 from PRA about another CC saying the debt has been assigned to them (no letter of assignment from the creditor) and in Jan 2018 an 'Annual Statment'. Since then, nothing.   I've made a point of ignoring these kind of letters and demands in the past belieivng they were SB and eventually the data would be destoyed. After a few years of actually being able to relax, I'm now worried that the aggro is all going to start up again with this HSBC and other accounts.   Now, the questions. it is/was my understanding that the debts became Statute Barred a few years ago and they couldn't be enforced. The CC default was issued Feb 2009. A month later a Final Demand was issued for both current AC and CC giving a combined total. (that total is similar to the one sought by Hoist which gives my currect AC number).   So, are these accounts SB? If they are SB and the bank has desposed of them by assignment to someone, why do they still have my name and enough details of my correspondence to determine they didn't behave correctly? Does the DPA not require them to destroy data after 6 years?   On the same DPA note, it seems that this account is simply being passed around from one **** bag bottome feeder to another (maybe teh same one under different names), again, why is data still being processed after 6 years? Am I doomed to be persistely pursued by these scumbags until I die? Or am I worng? Are they able to process data as long as they like, even when there has been no contact for years?              
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Lidl Feltham - Athena ANPR Ltd , Civil parking Charging Notice received ***CANCELLED BY LIDL***


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Hi, me and my partner who are frequent shoppers at Lidl Feltham shopped on 09.09 after 14 days of Covid quarantine at our home due to travel back restrictions. However this meant our shopping was bigger than usual at £85 total between us , we also spent time to figure out how to use the new Lidl plus app during this shopping so we ended up taking longer to checkout ,pack our car and leave.

 

While leaving, the car park lights were all off  and it was very dark which also made the loading of the car longer. Today we are in shock to receive a £90 parking charge letter by post for overstaying 10 minutes 8 seconds. We feel like being punished for shopping more at a store we do most of our grocery shopping and also obeying government rules which caused out shopping to be more items than usual.

 

Can you please advice ? entry time was 19:20:06 and leave was at 21:00:14.  Our receipt at lidl is timed 20:44 however getting back to our car and loading the items in the dark along with the shopping meant we spent over the 90 mins. I have attached the letter we received . 

 

I have already reached out to Lidl over the facebook page, but their initial response has been to contact the 3rd part Athena and log an appeal.  I'd like to also note that the car park had only a handful of cars, also we only shopped at Lidl nothing else. In a way it feels like we were punished for shopping more and using their app. 

 

Please advise the best course of action. 

 

Thanks,

 

Regards.

lidl parking.pdf4.42 MB · 3 downloads

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Hi.

 

Thank you for starting your own thread. :)

 

Could you give us the information requested in the forum sticky please?

 

 

Don't appeal to Athena, you've been misadvised by Lidl. I'll pop a few paragraphs into your post to make it easier to read for the advisers. :)

 

HB

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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No lidl carparks are 90 mins if you go look at the granted planning permission by council and no one can change that.

 

As for your ticket there is a 10 min grace period anyway.

 

Do not appeal

Ignore until/ unless you get a letter of claim.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes, thanks for starting your own thread. 

 

We have had a number of Lidl car park victories on the site recently.  Initially Lidl tried to fob the motorists off but they didn't take no for an answer.

 

Get on to Lidl head office (not FB or the local branch) and lay it on thick that you were a genuine customer, paid £85 and all the other points you made above above COVID and the unlit car park.  Demand they cancel the ticket.

 

As dx says, ignore Athena.  It was Lidl who have decided to infest their car park with these vermin and it is up to Lidl to sort it out.  PPCs never, ever, ever accept appeals anyway and we have lots of motorists on here who naively appeal and throw away their POFA legal protection.  

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi, thanks for your prompt replies.

 

@honeybee13

Please find the info at the bottom of this message.

 

@dx100uk @FTMDave

We were thinking of ignoring but the company in question has offered a £45 fine instead of £90 if paid in the first 14 days from issue date 11/09 , actually 9 days left from today when we received the mail. 

 

We know fundamentally the whole thing is wrong, however don't want to end up paying £90 if it progresses to letter of claim,

 

what do you think?

 

Our worst case is we want to end it with the £45 and say goodbye to Lidl shopping if they end up not helping.

My partner posted to their Facebook page with a similar remark.

 

 

We will call the Lidl customer service tomorrow, on facebook 2nd reply Lidl refused to help again and said contact Athena and start appeals with them which we are not doing as per your advice.

 

Thanks.

 

Kind regards.

 

 

 

1 Date of the infringement

09.09.2020
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

11.09.2020
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Date received

14.09.2020
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

N
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

N
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

N
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Athena ANPR Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Lidl Feltham

TW14 9BG

 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IIAS

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Where does it say fine please??

its a speculative invoice big difference!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well, only you can decide, but as a campaigning consumer association site we'd obviously prefer if people stood up to the fleecers and didn't pay.  Sure, £45 is less than £90, but £0 is an even lower sum 😉

 

You have nine days left, so use that time to get on to Lidl.  There's no point faffing around with FB or the local branch, get on to the CEO.  Have a look at these two threads, both of which are quite short, from motorists who recently beat Athena.

 

 

I reckon you have a great chance of getting Lidl to cooperate, but if they don't, come back and we can explain what might happen after the nine days are up.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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An appeal is useless Athena will dismiss it, POPLA if used would agree, and you will have outed the driver and killed POFA protection, that would usually kill any claim as they always get it wrong somewhere.

 

Time to attack Lidl HQ as suggested. It is not a fine, its an invoice as DX says for breaching some term in an imaginary Contract they aver you breach by overstaying.  Its not even as enforceable in reality as a Council PCN, as they have to sue in a Civil Jurisdiction. The signs usually fail to create a Contract, and the small print also  often seems to bind pedestrians and Cyclists as in any person

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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@brassneckedI read the POFA dated 2012 I don't understand how an appeal with Athena changes anything either way in regards to outing the driver etc.;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted#schedule-4-paragraph-12 states;

"

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

4(1)The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle."

 

 

 

Meanwhile, after  a few days below is Lidl cust. service's reply;


 

 

Re: Parking Charge Notice

Thanks for getting in touch.

I was sorry to learn that you received a parking charge. I appreciate this may have been frustrating for you.

Unfortunately, we are unable to make an appeal on your behalf. This is because all appeals need to be placed in writing directly to Athena ANPR by the appellant. Doing so allows you to retain your right to formally appeal any decisions made by Athena ANPR.

Details of the appeals procedure can be found on the reverse of the Parking Charge Notice or on the Athena ANPR website: www.athena-parking.com.

You can process an appeal via the following methods;
- online (https://www.athena-parking.com/appeals/start.asp),
- via email (appeals@athena-parking.com)

or by post at the below address:

Athena ANPR Ltd
PO Box 4758
Ascot
SL5 5DJ


When raising your appeal please include the following information:


 

  • Parking Charge Notice Number
  • Vehicle Registration Number


 

To further support your appeal please attach / enclose any of the applicable following documents:


 

  • Lidl store receipt or proof of shopping with us
  • Disabled badge holder evidence
  • Further documentation which may support your case


 

Athena will then conduct your appeal and communicate the outcome to you directly in writing.

We hope that your appeal is brought to a speedy conclusion.

Thank you for contacting us

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If you appeal usually yo out yourself as the driver, thereby removing POFA protection for you as keeper if they don't know who the driver is.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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4 hours ago, forsaker said:

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

4(1)The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle."

Yes, under certain circumstances.  Letters have to be sent out in a specified time frame and have to contain key phrases.  Athena are a member of the IPC who generally can't be bothered to respect the law.

 

We constantly have motorists here who naively appealed stating for example "I only parked for a few minutes".  Apart from the fact that PPCs never, ever, ever accept appeals - ever, such statements are an own goal and throw away the POFA protection.

 

Anyway, being positive, someone got a Lidl ticket cancelled yesterday by writing to the CEO, that is the road to go down

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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I sent an email to the CEO as suggested today, will keep you updated. 

 

I went through Athena's letter as per the POFA points above, timeline and requirements seem to be met.

If I was to appeal to Athena I would have highlighted that the car park lights were not working on the day of our visit when we came out of Lidl and it was pitch dark so it took us longer to find the car and pack,

 

the exit camera picture is a proof of the state of the car park in which their night vision cam just picked the plate.

 

Convenient that the camera was working even though none of the lights were. 

I am not doing so at this point however and following the common approach mentioned and emailed the CEO and the customer service at the same time.

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Obviously from Athena's point of view had you eaten enough carrots their signs would have been easily read. Your appeal would therefore be rejected.

They use a kangaroo Court where you have little to no chance of winning. Even a cast iron reason for quashing your ticket does not overrule their reason -which is to rip every motorist off for as much as they can. You are dealing with crooks that pay scant notice of the Law.

I would think that Lidl will cancel your ticket but if not you have a  claim against Athena for breaching your GDPR.

 

Edited by lookinforinfo
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Hi All,

 

My partner received a response from Lidl after another 3 days in which they explain the reason for their car parking system etc. but to summarize they conclude to cancel the parking charge with the below paragraph;

 

"In light of your comments, on this occasion only, I have requested that the parking charge is cancelled. Athena will confirm the cancellation in writing in due course."

 

As the £45 was going up to £90 the day before the email above actually reached us,  we actually sent the payment of £45 to Athena to remove the risk of that, but with the above conclusion we will follow up to get a refund. 

 

Meanwhile we did our first big shopping with the car from Aldi in the local area instead of Lidl for the first time in 2+ years. As Aldi shares the car park with Matalan store in our area their car park period is 3hrs free of charge, which removes the stress of timing your shopping.

 

I think the supermarkets are shooting themselves in the foot with these types of measures when they use 90mins or such short periods as a time limit.

 

I'll post an update how the refund chase goes and how long it takes. 

 

Thanks.

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no one ever said PAY THEM, you never ever do that.

 

if you paid by debit card

go get it back by a chargeback to your issuing bank.

 

 

On 14/09/2020 at 22:50, dx100uk said:

Where does it say fine please??

its a speculative invoice big difference!!

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OK,  I have not claimed anyone told us to pay in this forum.

 

As grown up adults we made this decision.

I am sharing our experience in case it benefits anyone. 

 

Our approach to this is if Lidl didn't help at the end we would take our shopping elsewhere and the so called reduced charge of £45 paid would be the end of the story, even if is unfair. 

 

As I mentioned Lidl cust. service already emailed us to confirm that they have contacted Athena to cancel the charge, I'll first follow up with Lidl. If not resolved will resort to chargeback.

 

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you didn't pay lidls the speculative invoice charge of £45.

 

the only connection to them is their head office signed their region up to have their local stores car parks managed by the scammers because they had been duped into thinking people that abuse their car parks cost the region xxx in lost shopping revenue because another shopper could have used it.

 

they never see any of the money these bandits gleam from people paying a speculative invoice off ever

and annually get ripped off by paying the fleecers £10'000 each year to give them permission to manage their carparks.

anyone that pays the money goes directly into the parking fleecers pockets.

 

however i understand you are new and green but part of a forum is also self help which relates to my comment about where did you ever get the idea to pay them from...certainly not here.

 

so lidls wont be doing and can't do anything further, they certain wont be interested in instructing their fleecers to refund you and can't and most certainly won't refund you themselves.

 

go do a chargeback

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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🤦‍♂️  If by debit card, do as DX suggests chargeback.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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11 hours ago, forsaker said:

As grown up adults we made this decision.

I am sharing our experience in case it benefits anyone.

Thank you.  Threads that point to success - or to mistakes - are very useful for motorists that will come on here in the future.

 

What you have done is utter insanity.  Despite being given on a plate two threads where motorists beat Athena in the same week as your case you've gone and handed over money to the fleecers.  It doesn't take much to work out that (a) not handing over money you don't owe to conmen is a better strategy than (b) handing over money you don't owe to conmen then trying to get it back.

 

The amount was never "going up" from £45 to £90 because it was never £45 in the first place.  It was always £0.  You were being charged for overstaying by eight seconds which is legally "de minimis" ("the law does not deal with trivialities").  You couldn't read Athena's signs anyway as the car park was pitch black!  Etc.  Etc.

 

Athena's position will be that you admitted the debt (otherwise why did you pay it?)  I hope chargeback goes well but often it's a battle to get banks to carry out chargeback and they will understandably be bemused as to why you paid this money if you thought you didn't owe it.  Bluntly you've just made life a million times harder for no reason.  It's like a football team manager who instructs the players to score two own goals in the first minute and then try to win the game.  

 

That said, go for chargeback and good luck.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi, Athena refunded back to my credit card within two working days after Lidl contacted them requesting cancellation. 

 

As I said there was no need to escalate to a chargeback without giving them time.

 

Thanks to everyone that suggested the contact CEO method. It worked for me as well.

 

 

Edited by forsaker
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Good to hear you got your money back.

 

I would never have thought that Athena would have rolled over so easily.  I'm glad to have been proved wrong.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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  • FTMDave changed the title to Lidl Feltham - Athena ANPR Ltd , Civil parking Charging Notice received **CANCELLED BY LIDL**

I think Lidl cust. service contacted them on behalf of their CEO (which is how they worded it), and Lidl over all has good leverage on Athena. Frankly I didn't expect the refund to the credit card this quickly neither. 

 

Thanks again.

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  • FTMDave changed the title to Lidl Feltham - Athena ANPR Ltd , Civil parking Charging Notice received ***CANCELLED BY LIDL***

Great stuff, bet Athena are getting a bit squeaky cheeked so will be wary of dissing Lidle in case they get booted from the sites.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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