HDTV & Misco issues - help!

[androobe]

I'd be grateful if anyone could throw any opinions or advice on this one at me. Sorry it's a bit of a long one...

 

I bought a 37" Videoseven HD TV from Misco now approx 6 weeks ago. TV arrived OK and on first appearances with my Sky+ box worked fine. A week or so later I got Sky HD installed - connected the TV to this through the HDMI lead, and here is where the problems started. After a few hours the TV goes blue and the only way of fixing it is rebooting the Sky box. At first I thought it could be a Sky Box fault, so I called Sky - they had heard of similar issues with other TVs and suggested using the alternative output/input connections (sorry don't know what they're called, but it's 3 separate round leads!). They offered to send me the leads but took about 10 days to arrive. Plugged them in but within about 10 minutes the problems started - this time the screen switches itself off for about 2 seconds then straight back on again. Might not sound like a big deal but when it happens anything up to 10 times an hour it's a right pain! Called Sky back who insisted it must be a TV issue and nothing to do with their box.

 

At this point I contacted Misco... this is now 3-4 weeks after receiving the TV. They were initially very helpful, promised to investigate and get back to me - which they did after about 3 days to say there was nothing they could do and I needed to contact the manufacturer. I pointed out they were responsible as the retailer, but they stated all they could do was collect the TV, send it to the manufacturer, get it looked at and then send back to me, which could take 3 weeks or more. So I agreed to contact the manufacturer on the basis that if they didn't help me I would still be going back to Misco. Contacted Videoseven and spoke to a helpful German guy would understood the issue and advised it's most likely a compatibility issue, but could only confirm this if some tests are run. He also stated this model of TV had NEVER BEEN TESTED WITH ANY HD DEVICE - even though it is labelled HD and was advertised by Misco as being HD compatible. Anyway, he asked me to test the device with another input (DVD player, non HD) and let him know the results. This was a week ago. I tested with a DVD player and there were no problems, however I now cannot get to speak to the guy at Videoseven to tell him what the results were - either he is on the phone or out of the office. I have not received the promised call back from them either - this is after 4 calls over 3 days to them. I have contacted Misco again and they refuse to do anything until Videoseven confirm to them whether it's a faulty unit or incompatible - either way this will take a minimum of 2 weeks AFTER I get Videoseven to take the unit for testing.

 

I have told Misco this is not acceptable for a unit which I have had for less than 2 months and asked that they take the unit away immediately and either give me a full refund or immediate replacement - and if the replacement has the same issues to take that away for a full refund. Surely they shouldn't sell TVs advertising as HD compatible if they haven't been tested, even with the most common HD device out there!

 

Am I being reasonable? I'm thinking of sending it back at my own cost (probably not cheap!) and then chasing them for the refund, through court if needed? I bought it on a CC if it makes any difference?

[hagenuk]

Send it back - your contract is with Misco and not the manufacturer. Misco are responsible for replacing or refunding under the Sale of Goods Act.

 

If they are not willing to do this, contact your CC issuer and inform them and they can take over for you - they will have a legal department who can handle this for you.

[rosiecotton]

OK did a long post and then got logged out and lost it!

 

It's right that your contract is with Misco and they're the ones who should be sorting this out for you. It's not you who is liable to get codes or reports from the manufacturer.

 

Misco are liable for this TV under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) which states that goods must be of satisfactory quality, fit for all normal purposes and as described. If this television is not HD compatible, you can argue that it is neither fit for purpose or as described. Therefore you would be entitled to either a replacement television of the same general spec and value, but that WAS HD compatible, or a full refund.

 

Also you should not be left out of pocket for faulty goods, so if Misco do ask you to return the television to them, you should make it clear that you are adding the cost of doing so to any refund that you are claiming.

 

I would advise you to write to Misco stating that the television is not compatible with HD and therefore is not fit for its purpose or as described, and does not comply with the terms of the Sale of Goods Act.

 

Give them a reasonable date by which to supply a suitable replacement, which must be of the same general spec and value and HD compatible, or if this is not possible to provide you with a full refund.

 

State that you are prepared to return the television to them and claim the cost of doing this from them, however you would prefer them to arrange to examine and collect the television themselves.

 

Copy this letter to your credit card company with a covering letter explaining that you are currently in dispute with Misco and if you are not able to resolve the matter with them, then you will be claiming from your credit card company under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (which would make your credit card company equally liable for any breaches of contract by the seller).

 

Bear in mind that I'm not a technical expert and therefore am assuming from what you've written in your post that it is definitely a compatibility issue and not an error in the set up!

[buzby]

The problem here is one of who is really at fault? The TV OR the Sky Plus box could be at fault here, and Misco clearly are not liable of the problem is caused by another faulty Sky HD box. I would suggest the easiest solution would be to check if the HDMI lead itself isn't faulty, then try the same lead of a different HDMI monitor. I have heard of more faulty Sky + swap outs than faulty HDMI screens, so more investigation is required.

[androobe]

Thanks for the replies...

 

This is going to be difficult as I thought! If I go down the route of assuming it's a TV fault/compatibility issue, and it isn't, I could end up looking like an idiot and out of pocket by quite a bit! But I don't really want to end up with a TV for the next X years that annoys the hell out of me every night. Don't know anyone else with Sky HD at the moment to swap things out and test to prove where the fault is. I suppose I could buy another HD TV, test it and send it back within 7 days! After all this if the fault is with the TV Misco would probably say it's too late to do anything about it. But Sky insist it must be a compatibility issue with the TV and won't even offer a box swap. Does anyone think the fact that Videoseven (the manufacturer) have admitted they've never tested the device with any HD equipment gives me a good case to send it back for not being as described anyway?

[hagenuk]

Yes and frankly, I'd have sent it back already.

[buzby]

Yes and frankly, I'd have sent it back already.

 

No, I don't. There is one person's opinion that it hasn't been tester (by him?) yet the HDMI standard provides 3 different connectivity option variants, the fact Sky + doesn't support one of them - or indeed might be faulty (and there's plenty of those around already), I'd say theres a greater chance of the cable being faulty followed by the Sky + box. There's not much to go wrong with a display, and if it works fine in all other respects there's every chance it is clear. Without the ability to test the components properly, making a wide generalisation as to which part is at fault is hardly a realistc solution.

[hagenuk]

It does not work properly, the OP has already stated that it has failed when connected to the Sky+ box via an HDMI cable and has also failed when connected via component cables - two separate interfaces and sets of cables, in my book that is enough - Send it back.

 

But, if for whatever reason that is not enough the OP has been unable to speak to the manufacturer again after having had it confirmed that the TV has not been tested as compatible with an HD device.

 

Once again, why are you keeping it?

[androobe]

 

Once again, why are you keeping it?

 

I guess the answer to that one is - in case on the off chance it is a Sky box issue? If I send it back, they test it, and find no fault/compatibility issue, I expect they will have no hesitation in charging me at least the carriage fees in each direction?

 

On top of this if I do send it back, I will have to pay for it and claim back the carriage fee - if I can get them to agree to collect it I will save a lot of hassle. I think it would be cheaper for me to drive from Leeds to Wellingborough & back again as it's pretty big/heavy and I foolishly threw out the box before I knew it was going to cause me these problems!

 

Well, I think I will email Misco again, give them 7 days to arrange collection and if they wish send a replacement for me to try. Otherwise send it back in 7 days and issue an LBA for the refund?

[buzby]

And the common component in all this is.....? At least use a bit of logic here! Sky boxes are renowned for their problems (look at any edition of BBCs Watchdog recently). The HDMI cables can also be an issue - there are two standards within, official and generic and they're not the same. I'm all putting blame where it lies, but I don't go running half cocked attributing blame when they source of the problem cannot be established easily.

[rosiecotton]

Having read through this, I would tend to agree with Buzby - bearing in mind what he's said, please do try and make sure that you know where the problem lies before you start taking action.

 

As I said before, I am no technical expert and, although I may be trained in consumer law, what I know about HDTV can be written on the back of a postage stamp! So I can advise on your rights *if* the TV is faulty. But since others have shown concern about whether this might be the case, do tread carefully.

[buzby]

Well, I think I will email Misco again, give them 7 days to arrange collection and if they wish send a replacement for me to try. Otherwise send it back in 7 days and issue an LBA for the refund?

 

What weakens the case is if they do send you a replacement and the 'fault' is still there, you're no further forward in establishing the cause of the problem. I'd still fall back on the tried and tested route to establish where the fault lies, firstly with any interconnecting cables, then with any other device capable of generating an HDMI image via the screen. Only after all that would I pursue the dealer that sold the screen.

[androobe]

OK, so yesterday I went out and bought another HD TV (from Argos, so I can return it), using the SAME Sky HD box and SAME component leads have watched for a couple of hours with no problems at all. Not surpirsed considering I had problems with 2 different leads as I originally said. So now I can confidently return the TV to Misco and pursue a refund or replacement. That will be where the fun starts again.

 

Thanks for everyone's input.

[buzby]

Excellent - by stating you've tried your kit with an alternative display device and it works fine, you need to ensure you tell Misco that it 'doersn;t do what is says on the tin' so that they don't try to arrange a swap, rather than a full refund. The 'fit for purpose' mantra come into play here, and ytou can always explain the manufacturer's candid comment about not being tested on HD (despite Misco's catalogue specification). You should be OK as I've found them great in the past, but it's a heck of a time to send kit back!

[StudentInDebt]

Here is the standard for an HD ready TV copied from Wikipedia

HD ready requirements

 

In order to be awarded the label “HD ready” a display device has to cover the following requirements:

 

1. Display, display engine

* The minimum native resolution of the display (e.g. LCD, PDP) or display engine (e.g. DLP) is 720 physical lines in wide aspect ratio.

2. Video Interfaces

* The display device accepts HD input via:

o Analog YPbPr. “HD ready” displays support analog YPbPr as a HD input format to allow full compatibility with today's HD video sources in the market. Support of the YPbPr signal should be through common industry standard connectors directly on the HD ready display or through an adaptor easily accessible to the consumer; and:

o DVI or HDMI

* HD capable inputs accept the following HD video formats:

o 1280x720 @ 50 and 60Hz progressive scan (“720p”), and

o 1920x1080 @ 50 and 60Hz interlaced (“1080i”)

* The DVI or HDMI input supports copy protection (HDCP)

 

The following technical references apply to the above descriptions:

 

DVI: DDWG, “DVI Visual Interface”, rev 1.0, Apr 2, 1999 as further qualified in EIA861B, “A DTV Profile for Uncompressed High Speed Digital Interfaces” May 2002, furthermore allowing both DVI-D and DVI-I connectors, requiring compliance to both 50 and 60Hz profiles, and requiring support for both 720p and 1080i video formats.

 

HDMI: HDMI Licensing, LLC, “High-Definition Multimedia Interface”, rev.1.1, May 20, 2004

 

HDCP: Intel, “High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection System”, rev 1.1, June 9, 2003.

 

(NB: on DVI HDCP rev 1.0 will apply)

 

YPbPr: EIA770.3-A, March 2000, with the notice that the connectors required may be available only through an adaptor.

 

The interesting point is that a device doesn't have to have been tested with any HD compliant device to be described as HD Ready.