Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[crem]

It states that if i am to appeal then i have to do so along with my payment within 14 days?

 

Thanks

 

Haha, I love that bit. What do you think the result of your "appeal" will be after they get hold of your money?

 

The only reasonable bit of their approach is their polite request that you park sensibly in future. I am sure you will try to. Meanwhile do nothing with their invoice, short of putting it safely in a drawer.

 

Do not write to them

Do not telephone them

Do not reply to their letters

Do not pay them

[seylectric]

Quite frankly it's about time these companies were taken to court for trying to obtain money by deception, because that's what it amounts to.

[DDWales]

I was wondering if anybody could help me.

 

A week ago I was issued with a parking ticket while I was at work in an NHS hospital. There is a lot of building work going on so I had to park on a footpath outside the hospital accommodation (where i am currently staying).

 

There is no charge for parking in the hospital however the fine is for £60 and states that I have 14 days to pay or it will rise to £85 and then to £135 (it does not state after how many days the charge will rise to £135).

 

My main concern is that I am 95% sure there was no ticket on my car that day as I moved it after work, so they must have put it on my car the day after when i was parked "legally"

 

After reading some of your posts I also noticed that my ticket simply says "date" not "date of issue", however does this still apply to private companies. This company claims to be a member of the British Parking Association.

 

Finally, the ticket was placed on my windscreen together with a piece of paper which reads to be an advanced warning and states "we appeal for your cooperation in parking sensibly and in authorised car parking areas, today and in the future"

 

It states that if i am to appeal then i have to do so along with my payment within 14 days?

 

Thanks

 

Its the usual PPC nonsense. Was it issued by CP Plus or APCOA by any chance? They currently have a lot of the hospital contracts.

As Crem notes the 'send payment with appeal' bit is ridiculous:rolleyes:. Please ignore and ignore any forthcoming DCA 'threatograms' (Roxburghe if APCOA).

Edited April 28, 2009 by DDWales
spelling

[lamma]

Quite frankly it's about time these companies were taken to court for trying to obtain money by deception, because that's what it amounts to.

 

That offence has been superseded by the Fraud Act 2006.

 

However you are correct. Many PPCs breach that Act and I have never seen any PPC paper that doesn't comprehensively breach the 2008 Consumer Regulations - very often including the criminal offences therein.

[thomas910]

Its the usual PPC nonsense. Was it issued by CP Plus or APCOA by any chance? They currently have a lot of the hospital contracts.

As Crem notes the 'send payment with appeal' bit is ridiculous:rolleyes:. Please ignore and ignore any forthcoming DCA 'threatograms' (Roxburghe if APCOA).

 

It is from "Parkforce" - i think they went with an obvious name choice because they were too busy spending their time making up nonsense tickets!

 

The bit that I dont understand is why they put it on my car the following day? Surely that itself proves they make rules up as they go along?

 

I walk passed the area everyday back and for to work and there are numerous cars parked in exactly the same place as me, but none of them have tickets, if they were going to be so strict then they should penalise the people who do it every single day, not people like me who did it as a one off!

[BRITSRUS]

had some good news,county court have contacted me,there mediation team have said that,other partie is willing to pay half of claim ie £140,if work commitments were different i might have gone all the way,im happy with offer the scumbags have offered,obviously there time is money,anyway thanks for all the comments and advice offered,it just goes to show that with a push and shove all is not lost,next time ill cut it off and tell them to come collect it in inverness:lol:

[BRITSRUS]

check page 44

[EdinburghDriver]

Please advise me - is my parking fine legal?

 

I have read that the ticket must say "Date of Issue" but my ticket from Edinburgh City Council states "Issue date" below the PCN number at the top of the ticket, but it does state "Date of Issue" on the payment slip tear off portion at the bottom.

 

I addition the circumstances are:

I returned to my car 4 minutes after the pay and display ticket expired. A warden was at my car punching into his machine. I asked him to stop and he continued. He printed off the ticket and handed it to me. The ticket states it was 7 minutes after the pay and display ticket expired.

- He didnt stick it to the windscreen

- he didnt photograph my car with a ticket in place (as there was no ticket placed on the car)

- the envelope that the ticket was placed in has date and PA number completed but the Time, Offence code and location were left blank - is this important (the printed ticket has all details on it)

 

Is there anything here that I can appeal against? I was doing a good deed for a 95% blind old lady and am gutted that my good-deed-for-the-day will end up costing me £30 or £60!

 

Please help...

[DD maker]

 

2, the tear off slip tells me that payment details are on the reverse but they are on the reverse of the ticket not the slip, to be honest i think you'd have to be pretty daft not to spot them but i supposed if you had detatched the slip assuming they were there?????

 

 

 

Hi, Received a PCN the other day, been reading through the thread(s) since - interesting reading. Can anyone advise if I can challenge the validity of the PCN issued for parking on DYL by local council CEO.

 

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6120/pcnfrontg.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9260/pcnback.jpg

 

 

My thoughts are based on the grounds that the payments instructions / address are not clear and not totally part of the PCN, but on the detachable payment slip at the bottom. Also the car tax expiry date is 10 years out (should be 2010). I understand that this isn't a requirement for the PCN, but as it is entered, and not open to interpritation (like colour could be), can this inaccuracy by part of any appeal?

 

 

Thanks for looking,

[green_and_mean]

Hi, Received a PCN the other day, been reading through the thread(s) since - interesting reading. Can anyone advise if I can challenge the validity of the PCN issued for parking on DYL by local council CEO.

 

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6120/pcnfrontg.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9260/pcnback.jpg

 

 

My thoughts are based on the grounds that the payments instructions / address are not clear and not totally part of the PCN, but on the detachable payment slip at the bottom. Also the car tax expiry date is 10 years out (should be 2010). I understand that this isn't a requirement for the PCN, but as it is entered, and not open to interpritation (like colour could be), can this inaccuracy by part of any appeal?

 

 

Thanks for looking,

 

You are completely wrong it clearly states how and where to pay on the back, however it is invalid as it includes a surcharge for credit card payments which is not permitted.

[DD maker]

it is invalid as it includes a surcharge for credit card payments which is not permitted.

 

Many thanks for your reply G&M,

 

So to summarise, I can appeal this PCN due to CC surcharges (1.5% in my case) as per 3 examples

 

PCN's that advise that a credit card surcharge will be added as the one one above does have been ruled unenforceable by adjudicators.

 

Parking and Traffic Appeals Service - Key Cases

 

Look under C

 

Title: BFS Group Ltd -v- London Borough of Kingston-upon-Thames

Subject: Notification of on council website; Penalty, payment; Credit card surcharge;

Date: Tuesday, 23rd June 2009

 

Title: Daskalova -v- London Borough of Camden

Subject: Credit card surcharge; Penalty, payment;

Date: Tuesday, 23rd June 2009

 

Title: London General Transport Services Ltd -v- London Borough of Camden

Subject: Penalty, payment; Credit card surcharge;

Date: Monday, 1st June 2009

[green_and_mean]

Many thanks for your reply G&M,

 

So to summarise, I can appeal this PCN due to CC surcharges (1.5% in my case) as per 3 examples

 

 

 

Title: BFS Group Ltd -v- London Borough of Kingston-upon-Thames

Subject: Notification of on council website; Penalty, payment; Credit card surcharge;

Date: Tuesday, 23rd June 2009

 

Title: Daskalova -v- London Borough of Camden

Subject: Credit card surcharge; Penalty, payment;

Date: Tuesday, 23rd June 2009

 

Title: London General Transport Services Ltd -v- London Borough of Camden

Subject: Penalty, payment; Credit card surcharge;

Date: Monday, 1st June 2009

 

yes and this case....

 

Example Cases - Traffic Penalty Tribunal

[nick20045]

Hi, Received a PCN the other day, been reading through the thread(s) since - interesting reading. Can anyone advise if I can challenge the validity of the PCN issued for parking on DYL by local council CEO.

 

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6120/pcnfrontg.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9260/pcnback.jpg

 

 

My thoughts are based on the grounds that the payments instructions / address are not clear and not totally part of the PCN, but on the detachable payment slip at the bottom. Also the car tax expiry date is 10 years out (should be 2010). I understand that this isn't a requirement for the PCN, but as it is entered, and not open to interpritation (like colour could be), can this inaccuracy by part of any appeal?

 

 

Thanks for looking,

Can you NOT make sure that your scans are level? I got neck pains reading your scans :D

 

Edited August 22, 2009 by nick20045
It helps if scans are level and fits a page.

[oakstar]

HI,

hoping someone could tell if this is a legal ticket. i got it while displaying my ticket and my blue badge (I'm physically disabled and totally reliant on benefits) in a council car park. parked on the end of a line of cars as no space was available, did not obstruct anything. parked in car park as street was full and if i parked on double yellow's it would have caused a traffic hazard.

ticket does not even state date of issue et c just says - noticed at..... on......

having to send of the cheque tomorrow so would appreciate a fast answer.

please see attached image (not sure if it's big enough?). Thanks in advance.

[green_and_mean]

HI,

hoping someone could tell if this is a legal ticket. i got it while displaying my ticket and my blue badge (I'm physically disabled and totally reliant on benefits) in a council car park. parked on the end of a line of cars as no space was available, did not obstruct anything. parked in car park as street was full and if i parked on double yellow's it would have caused a traffic hazard.

ticket does not even state date of issue et c just says - noticed at..... on......

having to send of the cheque tomorrow so would appreciate a fast answer.

please see attached image (not sure if it's big enough?). Thanks in advance.

 

The ticket shows up too small! However it does look like a standard charge not a PCN which means there is no set legal format basically its like an invoice for a penalty charge from the Council which is issued under the RTRA 1984. This means that you will have to appeal directly to the Council at the address shown on the PCN. Just state what you said here and hope they are feeling generous.

[oakstar]

HI thanks for such a fast response !!!!

sorry about the size and yes you are right it is 1984RTRA.

sounds like i'll have to pay up then

thanks.

[green_and_mean]

HI thanks for such a fast response !!!!

sorry about the size and yes you are right it is 1984RTRA.

sounds like i'll have to pay up then

thanks.

 

Always worth appealling first they may be a bit more lenient as you have a blue badge.

[oakstar]

ok, thanks again.

[DD maker]

PCN's that advise that a credit card surcharge will be added as the one one above does have been ruled unenforceable by adjudicators.

 

Parking and Traffic Appeals Service - Key Cases

 

Look under C

 

yes and this case....

 

Example Cases - Traffic Penalty Tribunal

 

Hi,

 

Update on my PCN,

 

I challenged (on grounds of unenforceable credit card surcharge) my PCN within the 14 day reduced rate, then received a letter acknowledging my challenge and stating they are considering my case, I will also have 14 days (from unsuccessfull challenge letter) to pay at reduced rate if they decline my challenge.

 

Today I received a letter thanking me for "bringing the matter of the surcharge for making payments by credit card" to their attention. The letter goes on to say that there are various other ways to pay the PCN at the reduced rate without incurring the CC surcharge.

 

I'm not sure if the fact payment can be made without surcharge puts me in a weaker position if I were to formally appeal after the NTO / go to the TPT. I know the English example case states "What the Council may not do, however, is add a surcharge on payments made by credit card. That would amount to an unlawful increase of the amount that may be charged by way of penalty. The Council has no power to demand the payment of any extra charges of this nature.", however I am unclear if this alone would be enough to base an appeal on.

 

The letter states if I wish to make further representations against the issue of the PCN, I should wait until the NTO docs are sent to the registered keeper (which is me anyway). The letter doesn't actually state they have rejected my informal challenge, however I presume that to be the case. The website payment system still quotes a 1.5% surcharge (will be keeping screen-shots, just in-case. Don't know if they are going to change policy regarding CC surcharges, or just ride this out?).

 

I'm looking for reassurance that I am still in a strong position regarding the challenge.

 

Does anyone know if this is just standard type rejection tactics, hoping I'll pay, not wanting to open the floodgates for others to challenge their PCN's issued by the local CEO's. Or perhaps they feel they have a good case if it were to go past formal challenge to the TPT??

[crem]

My understanding was that the case involving the CC surcharge meant the whole PCN was unenforcable. Any PCN has various methods of payment, but the fact that credit cards had a surcharge on negated thewhole PCN.

 

I would suspect the council know this but are trying to entice you into using one of the other payment methods without the extra charge to make sure the rake some dosh in.

[lamma]

I agree. there is a limit to what they can ask for, they can't just add an arbitrary amount especially a CC payments are cheaper to make than processing a cheque. Council trying to snake oil you into paying while not admitting their own infraction and unlawful claim for money. Who would have thought out lovely civil servants would do that what with their 'duty'.

[Conniff]

My understanding was that the case involving the CC surcharge meant the whole PCN was unenforcable. Any PCN has various methods of payment, but the fact that credit cards had a surcharge on negated thewhole PCN.

 

I would suspect the council know this but are trying to entice you into using one of the other payment methods without the extra charge to make sure the rake some dosh in.

 

Book your Christmas party ads are appearing in the papers now, someone has to pay for it.

[DD maker]

Thanks for the responses, I am going to wait for the NTO and formally challenge at that point.

[sequest]

I received a Notice to Owner regarding a parking ticket I acquired in a multi-storey, council run car park.

 

The photo attached to this notice is not my car.

 

Do I have grounds to appeal and, if so, any suggestions as to what line my response should take?

 

Many thanks.

[Foghorng]

Hi, I've spent a couple of days reading through this thread with great interest. Low and behold today I get myself a PCN.

I have to say I'm a little confused now as to the validity and date thing too.

But here goes, I parked in a carpark today which said Sunday parking freee 0900 - 1600. Went off and went about my business - actually I went to work as it goes.

Now I know I came back later than prescribed hours etc, but i couldn't really leave to go and put time on the car at 16.00. I got back at 17.10.

 

Come back to the car, later than planned to find a CEO next to my car just having put a PCN on the window.

 

It states:

Torbay Council. Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) The Traffic Management Act 2004, s.78; Civil Enforcement of Parking contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007; Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007

 

PCN Number : TB********

Served on 27/09/2009

by Civil Enforcement Officer 396

who had reason to believe that the following contravention had occured and that a penalty charge is now payable

 

PARKED IN A PAY & DISPLAY CAR PARK WITHOUT CLEARLY DISPLAYING A VALID PAY & DISPLAY TICKET

 

Code 83

Date of Contravention 27/09/2009

Time 17:09

Location: CP Meadfoot

Location Description: Outer bays top level

Vehicle Registration: EDITED

Make: Peugeot

Colour: Red

Tax Disc: 07********

Expiry date: 31/07/2010

Observed from: 17:04 to: 17:09

 

A penalty charge of £50 is now payable and must be paid no later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN was served. ie 24/10/2009

The penalty charge will be reduced by a discount of 50% to £25 if it paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which this PCN was served. ie 10/10/2009

 

Signature-----------

 

See reverse for: How to pay, how to challenge this PCN, what happens if no payment is made.

 

Then a payment slip:

PCN No: TB********

Served on 27/09/09 at 17:09

Vehicle registration: EDITED

Contravention: Parked in a P&D Car park without clearly displaying a P&D ticket

Code. 83

 

The Penalty Charge of £50 or £25 if paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which this PCN was served.

If payment is made by post, please detach this slip complete the details on the reverse and return it with your payment to the address as shown overleaf.

 

 

Was enclosed in a sellaphane envelope on the car windscreen..

Penalty Charge Notice

IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO REMOVE OR INTERFERE WITH THIS NOTICE EXCEPT BY OR UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE OWNER OR PERSON IN CHARGE OF THIS VEHICLE OR BY AN AUTHORISED REPRESENTATIVE.

 

This is a Local Authority with NCP currently owning the contract and well known as the Torbay Taliban.

 

Any information to whether I should appeal and on what grounds would be most gratefully received.

The payment details take alot to get one's head around, that and the envelope being a Criminal Offence and as mentioned earlier, date of issue etc as it doesn't state issue but served.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 1, 2009 by HSBCrusher
registration removed