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Return of vehicle, distance sale


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I don't think there'll be any problem if and when it gets in front of a judge. However I think that there is a big possibility that enforcement is going to be a nightmare.

I hope not

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What does "TRADEFLAG  Trade" signify in the advert?  Is that meant to warn potential buyers that this is a trade sale only?  If so, does it have any effect?   Just to add on the OP's be

We do have a Scotland Financial Legal issues Forum which will give you plenty of advice re the Legal Position.   https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/371-scotland-financial-legal-issu

Unfortunately not, when I sent the template letter on the advice of the consumer advice despite being in email ping pong with them for 2 days about the fact I was reading legislation that he was in fa

36 minutes ago, Hammy1962 said:

Keep the sarcasm for when you are sat in front of a Judge. See how far you get with that.

 

H

Well, perhaps pointing that out in the first place was a tad sarcastic, so, I generally reply to sarcasm with sarcasm. 

 

Bottom line is, the reason distance sales open more avenues for a consumerrights etc is because people get duped by dodgy traders rather frequently.  

 

 

I believe your own first response was, good luck with the 12 months extension, which is already in my favour, so a bit more savvy in knowing what you're talking about before you responded would maybe have prevented me from pointing out that yes, I do indeed have the 12 months extension.

 

My apologies you said it should be interesting. .. goodness knows what you meant by that.

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36 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I don't think there'll be any problem if and when it gets in front of a judge. However I think that there is a big possibility that enforcement is going to be a nightmare.

I hope not

I would like to think not too, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I did say before had this all been done in a face to face situation I wouldn't be in this current predicament. I mentioned that he said after his first initial call to me about the clutch/strut needing replaced however the car requires a completely new paint job and stripping of the 'wrap' (actually a badly attempted effort at spraying with a plasti dip paint) which wasn't apparent in any of the pictures, nor did he mention it. However, even this doesn't come into it with the 14 days to cancel as no reason has to be given. 

 

I'm hopeful that it if goes before a judge and the fact it was sold on a trade sales invoice will be case closed in my favour in under 5 minutes. 

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As has already been said here, whether it takes five minutes or longer, the case will be closed in your favour.

Enforcement is going to be a completely different issue.

When do you issue your claim?

Have you drafted the particulars yet? You may want to post them up here so we can have a look and comment before you actually issue the claim

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I have not done so yet no, as this is completely alien to me, this is why I have requested assistance from CA, if I had known that consumer direct wouldn't be able to help me in this regard I would have contacted them sooner. 

 

I could post the response I had from the dealer however there probably isn't enough space on the server! It was quite the novel of nonsense. This would maybe give you an insight as to what I am dealing with though. That said, you probably already have a fair idea!

 

Forgot to add that I presume I would need to issue the claim next Thursday which would have reached the end of the 7 day notice before action letter sent to the dealer last Wednesday 

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/legal-system-s/taking-legal-action-s/taking-someone-to-court-using-simple-procedure-s/simple-procedure/help-with-the-simple-procedure-claim-form/

 

I believe this is what I'll be completing next Thursday 

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I'm interested in your comments as to why should you have to explain any details about the condition of the car – basically because you feel that you have got adequate rights under the distance selling rules

When you litigate, if you have two good arguments to base your claim upon then you are better off using both. That means that if one founders, the other one may hold up.

I think you should give us some information about the condition of the car and also give us insight of the advertisement and the claims made for it we may be able to view some advice on that issue.

 

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See a previous post where I mentioned that the vehicle would need a complete stripping of the badly applied plasti dip paint and resprayed to the original colour.  I can provide a copy of the advert,  which also states that the timing belt (chain) had been replaced backed up by an invoice, I have been through the paperwork 3 times now and haven't been able to locate it. 

 

The advert was as follows;

 

 

 

MAKE

TOYOTA

MODEL

CELICA

REGNUMBER

A16BYN

PRICE

1977

YEAR

2003

MILEAGE

80000

TRADEFLAG

Trade

NAME

Evolve Cars

 

 

*** Good afternoon dear customers

- Here is what we believe is a EXTREMELY RARE OPPORTUNITY to what we believe is the ONLY CELICA in the country with this COLOUR & spec !

*** GENUINE MILEAGE on a 2003 REGISTERED plate with supporting documents including

- FSH, Full HPI REPORT, Full vosa printout, every single previous MOT & more importantly CERTIFICATE from the National MILEAGE Register to verify !

 

Has just benefited from a FULL 1 YEARS MOT / 36 POINT CHECK & even a FULL DIAGNOSTIC scan showing NO CURRENT engine or gearbox faults - complete with receipts from the garage.

 

Has FULL SERVICE HISTORY with 11 stamps in the book, most of them being TOYOTA with loads of main dealer service invoices & printouts. It has even had the all important TIMING BELT done too by TOYOTA @ the cost of £320 fully backed up with invoice !

 

Previous owner was a FIRE ENGINEER & has just drove it all the way down from SUNNY SCOTLAND !

Has just benefited from a £300 SERVICE BILL.

Comes with LOVELY BLACK / GREY LEATHER INTERIOR, Black polished alloys & EXPENSIVE SOUND ENTERTAINMENT system.

 

Please remember that this CELICA has only done around 6 k miles per year, which is absolutely nothing for one of these engines - BRAND NEW, this would have set you back in excess of £17 k new, so grab a used bargain at this price !

 

*** PLEASE NOTE - The private plate DOES NOT COME with the car & is in the process of being RETAINED - The car will come back with the standard 03 REG from DVLA, we will update this advert as soon as it comes back - Thank you for your patience

 

*** VIEWING BY MUTUAL APPOINTMENT ONLY.

Based in BIRMINGHAM.

Part Exchange & NATIONWIDE DELIVERY available.

 

Any questions please do not hesitate to give us a ring -Thank you

 

***, Next MOT due 17/08/2021, Black Full leather interior, Alarm, Alloy Wheels (17in), Climate Control, Electric Windows (Front), In Car Entertainment (Radio/Cassette/CD Autochanger), Upholstery Leather. 4 seats, Blue, £1,977

ATTENTION_GRABBER

RARE CELICA VVLI WRAPPED BLUE

 

 

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Thank you.  And have you had an independent assessment of the car in order to address all of the elements of the car which have been referred to in the advertisement?

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It probably won't be necessary but on the other hand, no harm done. You could send him notice that you are challenging the points in his advertisement. This the mount point by point and tell him that you are having these points independently assessed and that you will be proposing to recover the costs of an assessment from him in the event that he attempts to dispute any of it.

I think if you lay down a paper trail and show that you have behaved transparently and warned him of any costs, that you will probably be awarded them.

Once again, whether you can enforce it – is another matter.

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I would think I would have a strong enough claim with regards to him selling the vehicle on a trade sales invoice, at the moment I believe everything else is perhaps irrelevant... 

 

I will keep updated on any progress with TS if they bother to respond and advice given by CAB as and when I hear back,

 

Thank you again.

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What does "TRADEFLAG  Trade" signify in the advert? 

Is that meant to warn potential buyers that this is a trade sale only?  If so, does it have any effect?

 

Just to add on the OP's behalf,

I don't think she has been "hung up" on getting trading standards involved. 

She seems to have done so initially because she was advised to do so by some advice service in Scotland. 

 

But the OP has throughout this thread been arguing on her consumer rights position that she has an extended period to cancel her purchase because it's a distance sale and because she wasn't notified of her right to cancel in a "durable medium" before buying the car. 

 

Additionally, because she was not given any of that pre-contract information about cancellation and return costs, she has argued that the dealer is liable to pay the return costs.  Whether that is a good argument or not, and whether it is likely to be a practical way of getting her money back, I won't comment on, but that seems to me to have been her consistent approach throughout.  (It was somebody else who didn't seem to follow her argument about an extended cancellation period and didn't understand the references to a "durable medium" who brought up using TS to prosecute the dealer.)

 

Anyway - to move on - it seems to me that the OP has focussed on her right to cancel a distance sale for no reason, rather than to reject the car as faulty, because (and OP, please correct me if I'm wrong) she doesn't really think the car is faulty.

 

Now the OP may be completely mistaken and foolhardy in approaching this problem in the way she has (it's not clear to me whether she is or isn't) but if she is, I think it needs to be very clearly pointed out to her. 

 

Unfortunately, many posts seem to have progressed on the basis that she was rejecting the car (not cancelling the purchase) or that she should get TS to prosecute the dealer.  The OP just needs to be clearly told either "Yes - you're doing the right thing" or "No - you're doing the wrong thing - do this instead".

 

I think that's why the thread has droned on. 

 

(I agree that if the dealer doesn't settle out of court there will be arguments about whether it's an English or a Scottish case and I'm sure there will be problems enforcing any judgment whatever approach is taken).

 

 

 

 

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don't think there is any ref to TS prosecuting the dealer upon the op's behalf made?

i believe ref was made about getting TS onboard, which has already been done, 

 

then p'haps they might be willing to write a letter or statement etc for later in court proceedings which appears to have happened in many cases i'm reading, then TS publicise the case as a win for them..:)

 

i think it's already been clarified that as the dealer is in England , this would be an English Court Claim?

a Scottish claim would hold no water as the dealer would simply shout out of jurisdiction, thus delaying things more.?

 

a scottish claim for damages could be raised  under the SPC rules should say the dealer have collected the car after refunding but failed to reimburse the existing transportation costs.. ??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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https://picclick.co.uk/Johns-Motorcare-Supplies-Used-Car-Vehicle-Sales-Trade-254575623299.html#&gid=1&pid=3

 

Just for clarification this is the invoice the dealer used. I can send the actual invoice/deposit through pm if someone would like to see it. 

 

I think trade flag on autotrader indicates the seller is a trader and not a private seller, I'm not sure they advertise trader to trader sales.

 

As per the website for a simple procedure in Scotland I think it references because it is a consumer issue it can be in my local area. 

 

I'm not sure if anything other than what he told me, or became apparent on the advisories on the most recent mot is wrong with the car, however the badly done paint job definitely needs sorting, at probably more than the car cost...that has been confirmed by a panel beater/sprayer with over 40 years in the trade.

 

Hope this helps

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if yours says consumer too in red under the examination part (which you never signed)

and 

as that one does it uses the word contract, then its not a trader<>trader sale docket

it's a invoice regarding sums owed for the car your purchased.

 

so good to go under your claim you had 14 days to return it under dsr as you'd not seen it, extended by 1 cal year as he didn't use nor refer nor provide your rights in a durable medium..

 

glad thats sorted....:rockon:

 

to sort if it raiseable under the scottish SPC claim system, simply ring you local sheriff's court clerks office and ask.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Manxman in exile said:

What does "TRADEFLAG  Trade" signify in the advert? 

Is that meant to warn potential buyers that this is a trade sale only?  If so, does it have any effect?

 

Just to add on the OP's behalf,

I don't think she has been "hung up" on getting trading standards involved. 

She seems to have done so initially because she was advised to do so by some advice service in Scotland. 

 

But the OP has throughout this thread been arguing on her consumer rights position that she has an extended period to cancel her purchase because it's a distance sale and because she wasn't notified of her right to cancel in a "durable medium" before buying the car. 

 

Additionally, because she was not given any of that pre-contract information about cancellation and return costs, she has argued that the dealer is liable to pay the return costs.  Whether that is a good argument or not, and whether it is likely to be a practical way of getting her money back, I won't comment on, but that seems to me to have been her consistent approach throughout.  (It was somebody else who didn't seem to follow her argument about an extended cancellation period and didn't understand the references to a "durable medium" who brought up using TS to prosecute the dealer.)

 

Anyway - to move on - it seems to me that the OP has focussed on her right to cancel a distance sale for no reason, rather than to reject the car as faulty, because (and OP, please correct me if I'm wrong) she doesn't really think the car is faulty.

 

Now the OP may be completely mistaken and foolhardy in approaching this problem in the way she has (it's not clear to me whether she is or isn't) but if she is, I think it needs to be very clearly pointed out to her. 

 

Unfortunately, many posts seem to have progressed on the basis that she was rejecting the car (not cancelling the purchase) or that she should get TS to prosecute the dealer.  The OP just needs to be clearly told either "Yes - you're doing the right thing" or "No - you're doing the wrong thing - do this instead".

 

I think that's why the thread has droned on. 

 

(I agree that if the dealer doesn't settle out of court there will be arguments about whether it's an English or a Scottish case and I'm sure there will be problems enforcing any judgment whatever approach is taken).

 

 

 

 

Could you confirm what dx100uk  is saying, I can forward you a copy of the actual invoice/deposit slip for clarification to your inbox 

 

Many thanks 

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