Idem Claimform - HSBC Credit card from 2005 *** Claim Discontinued***

[Welly26]

Hello, long time lurker first time post. 

 

I have been sent a County court claim from IDEM Capital that i need to respond to and i have no idea what i am doing. 

 

Short Story.

 

December 2008 defaulted on a number of credit accounts and entered a DMP with CCCS which is now Step change. 

 

Step change closed the DMP in April 2019. there was still balances on accounts. Idem are chasing a few and some with Cabot

 

Idem became a pain in the backside and sent lots of letters and even had a company called resolve call visit and give me a nice card to call them. 

 

I did call them and requested copies of any agreements they are chasing so i can check. 

 

Whilst doing this i sent all the original company's a  PPI claim. - all failed because they either never had PPI or the company could no longer find any record of me. 

 

The one i have here from IDEM appears to be an HSBC credit cards, i have had a letter in November  2019 saying the following:

 

Further to your request for a copy of your original credit agreement, for HSBC credit card account xxxxxx. we have approached the original vendor HSBC, who have advised us they are unable to provide us with the requested documentation. HSBC are able to forward us a reconstituted copy of this agreement should this be required. 

 

I spoke to them after this letter and said i wont pay them until they can prove the debt and they sent me a statement showing payments form Step change and advised me that this is enough proof of debt because payments have been made for many years. 

 

Also the sent me a credit agreement for someone else in a pack of transaction history and then a £50 cheque as an apology. I still have the cheque and never cashed it. 

 

I need help with what i do with the claim form and if i have a chance of winning or do i bite the bullet and pay it.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/357877-you-have-received-a-court-claim-issued-in-england-wales-what-you-need-to-do/

[Welly26]

Thank you, I will do this from a PC tomorrow.

 

thanks for your reply.

[Welly26]

Name of the Claimant ? IDEM CAPITAL SECURITIES LTD

 

Date of issue – 25 AUG 2020

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

1) An agreement between HSBC and Defendant/s (D) subject to standard terms and conditions

2) Claimant (C) purchased the debt 13/10/2016

3) it was a term of the agreement that is any instalment was not paid on due date, C would be entitled to repayment of outstanding balance of total amount payable less (on Payment) any rebate that D maybe entitled

4) D Failed to pay instalments due. C issued a Default Notice requesting payment D failed to pay sums due, which consequently became immediately due and payable, Formal demand issued dated 10/08/2020

5) D has failed to pay outstanding balance of £4277.61

 

What is the total value of the claim? £4542.61
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No - i did notify Step change though

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? credit card
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? yes 2005
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? i think branch but not sure
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? not any more
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

no - i have however been sent copies of this by IDEM on the 3/04/2020 it was sold in 2013 to Britannica recoveries, and then another letter saying it was purchased by IDEm in 2016. i never received any of these letters
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes in 2008
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No - i did receive one in February this year when i asked for copies of the agreements
 

Why did you cease payments? Step change closed the management plan because it had been going on too long
 

What was the date of your last payment? HSBC - Sept 2007 Stepchange 18/04/2019 

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

i am not happy with them, and they did not manage me well - i failed on the PPI because HSBC had no records of me being a customer and i know for sure i was paying it. i also complained at the time of the debt that the charges where unfair but had no luck
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? yes step change did and also i did as well. 

 

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time

[you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
..
 get a CCA Request running to the claimant
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/
 leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed
..
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
..

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
..
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

[Welly26]

I have done this today. when should i do the defence? 

[dx100uk]

read the 1st link again and my last post

 

dx

 

[Welly26]

Sorry, I have today sent of the recorded delivery’s and also filled out the MCOL.

 

i see we have so many days for the defence submitting so planning ahead, when is the best time to do this and why should I start thinking about submitting.

 

thank you for all your help so far. 

[AndyOrch]

Your defence is due for submitting Friday 25th Sept 4.00pm...so start looking at other similar threads (same type of debt same claimant if poss) and get a feel of how defences are drafted.Then have go and post a copy here for opinion.

 

Start here.....

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/129-legal-successes/

Andy

[Welly26]

Morning, I have today received a letter from IDEM so signed for delivery.

 

Thank you for your request to sections 77-79 of the consumer act 1974.

unfortunately, we are unable to supply a copy of the credit agreement at present, we have contacted the original lender for a copy and if available it will be sent to you under separate cover in compliance with your request.

 

the balance of the account is still outstanding and we will continue to pursue this debt which will include registering and arrears or defaults with credit reference agencies. We can confirm the balance on your account of £4277.61 remains due and payable and we will contact you to discuss repayment proposals.

 

in the meantime we attach a statement of account detailing the transaction history which will also display any fees and charges that may of been added.

you are free to take whatever action you consider appropriate but we will not be releasing you from your obligation under the agreement.

 

i then have 2 pages going back to 2012 showing step change receipts until 18th April 2019 when the DMP was discontinued.

 

on the 18th of December is a £50 credit adjustment and then a refund which is a cheque they sent me but never cashed for when I requested copies of the documents previously and they sent me someone else’s.

 

i look forward to any feedback

[dx100uk]

usual crap from idem then.

looks like they are already on the back foot with no CCA since late last year.

it's also worthy to note the brits only ever bought lemon debts that were unenforceable anyway which is why the original creditors sold debts too them.

 

as for the balance ...the fact that it might well include a substantial amount of PPI and unlawful penalty charges and that HBOS could not find the details, again adds more nails into Idems coffin but not to +£4k mind.

[Tbirdo]

Hi there Welly26. 

I also had a case with idem with a successful outcome, thanks to the CAG team.

The following link might be useful to you 

 

 

[Welly26]

Thank you, I will read through your case.

 

what do I do now? Do I start my defence for the court part?

 

or do I go back with an offer? 

[AndyOrch]

Offer.....?   dont be silly.....start preparing a defence....

[Welly26]

Hello All, 

 

I am really struggling with this defence. I feel i have copied to much

 

1) An agreement between HSBC and Defendant/s (D) subject to standard terms and conditions

2) Claimant (C) purchased the debt 13/10/2016

3) it was a term of the agreement that is any instalment was not paid on due date, C would be entitled to repayment of outstanding balance of total amount payable less (on Payment) any rebate that D maybe entitled

4) D Failed to pay instalments due. C issued a Default Notice requesting payment D failed to pay sums due, which consequently became immediately due and payable, Formal demand issued dated 10/08/2020

5) D has failed to pay outstanding balance of £4277.61

 

DEFENCE

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim not valid

 

2.  I have in the past had financial dealings with HSBC. I do not recall the precise details of any agreement but do recall it was around 2006 from my records I have nothing that matches the agreement numbers you have supplied

 

3.  I have never entered into any agreement with the claimant therefore I can not be in any breach of any terms as no agreement exists with the claimant.

 

4. I received a default form HSBC on 2008 in relation to an agreement so you cant issue another default

 

5.I have asked for copies of the agreements and statements to prove the debt of £4277.61 and Had a reply on the 29th November 2019 that you are unable to provide any of the original agreements and this was followed up again on the 2nd September 2020 and you replied confirming you did not have any agreements.

 

Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(A) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the claimant; and

(B) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for: and

(C) show how the claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

5. As per Civil Procedureic on Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt as alleged it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to pursue any claim

 

 

I'm really sorry, this all appears very complicated and I don't want to put things i cant understand or back up, 

 

[dx100uk]

2 posts up tbirdo pointed to their thread

use that as your basis 

[Welly26]

Hello Thank you DX, 

 

that's the one I used mainly and posted what I think it should look like.

 

How does that read or is it complete rubbish and I need to try again? I know I have to submit ASAP now so getting anxious 

[Tbirdo]

Hi there Welly26

the link below is very useful to your case.

 

 

 

Have a look at post 76, and see if you can use any information for your own defence.

[dx100uk]

link updated use post 76 there^^^^

[Tbirdo]

If you look at post 73 it has a defence that is similar to your case, you could adapt and word it to fit your POC.

 

good luck 

[Welly26]

Hello, what do think of this? i have taken most of it on the above mentioned posts, i need to submit today really because I don't think I will gain access to a computer tomorrow 

 

1) An agreement between HSBC and Defendant/s (D) subject to standard terms and conditions

2) Claimant (C) purchased the debt 13/10/2016

3) it was a term of the agreement that is any instalment was not paid on due date, C would be entitled to repayment of outstanding balance of total amount payable less (on Payment) any rebate that D maybe entitled

4) D Failed to pay instalments due. C issued a Default Notice requesting payment D failed to pay sums due, which consequently became immediately due and payable, Formal demand issued dated 10/08/2020

5) D has failed to pay outstanding balance of £4277.61

 

************************* FINAL Defence *********************************************

 

 

 

1.  The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. I have in the past had financial dealings with HSBC . I am unaware of what alleged debt(s) the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim,  or even referring to an account number. I have therefore sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request and a CPR 31.14 request.

 

In response the claimant has confirmed they do not have an agreement between HSBC and Myself

 

And in response to my section 78 request for the HSBC agreement - was not supplied and therefore remain in default and prevented from enforcing the alleged agreement.

 

4. Paragraph 2 is noted but it is denied that I was ever served Notice of Assignment at the time of the Assignment.

 

5. Paragraph 4 is denied. I am unaware of any service of a Default Notice (s) pursuant to section 87 of the consumer credit

 

6.It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice;

(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

 

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

why do you keep changing/missing bits out from the example we posted above ?

 

lets get you sorted....

 

i do not want to see it..but..is there a 16digit number in their particulars of claim (from where you got the red bit from)

[AndyOrch]

Also missing.....

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

[Welly26]

Hello DX100 uk, 

 

Apologies, I thought I needed to edit the above to suit my case.. My bad. 

 

there is not a 16 digit number in the claim, its exactly has written. 

[AndyOrch]

Defence in post #21 edited...please check its correct.

 

Andy