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Goosedale WEDDING VENUE REFUSING REFUND


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I also asked you when you sent off the questionnaire and whether it gave you an opportunity to make any other requests that you are not answering this. Instead you tell me when you received the notification from the court. Please will you address the questions – and I agree with my colleague, that would like you to stop simply posting screenshots please.

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Yes I have to agree with Bankfodder...your particulars are far too much in depth...plus you will be restricted to 1080 characters anyway... It will form the basis of your witness statement further int

response from defendant.pdf

I will await further advice in any event my daughter will attend as a witness so the Judge can talk to her direct, as lay persons we are not aware of the legal situation, my contract was giving them m

OH sorry I thought it was easier please can above be removed I will do this now, the Defendants response was received on 7 October 

 

We asked for the matter to proceed on 8 October 2020

 

The Notice of transfer was received on 12 October 2020

 

I have nothing else 

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You still haven't addressed the question about the directions questionnaire and whether there was an opportunity to ask for other orders to be made.

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apologies I will only post up PDF now, I have removed the other files

1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

You still haven't addressed the question about the directions questionnaire and whether there was an opportunity to ask for other orders to be made.

There was no opportunity offered just what I have posted up

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Thank you. I've actually just looked at the County Court website and I see that the most recent version of their DQ doesn't invite you to ask for orders. As you have said.

Do you happen to know if the defendants have opted for mediation? Have you received a copy of their directions questionnaire?

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I have not been given any other details, they only asked it I wanted to continue with the claim and I answered the question about witnesses etc this was posted up when I submitted this, above

 

I will post up their response they refused mediation please bear with me

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Okay. I seem to remember having seen this in a previous post of yours that they refused mediation.

In that case, I think the thing to do now is to wait until you hear from the court – and probably the next thing that will happen is that a hearing date will be set – which may well be a telephone hearing – and you will be asked to provide documents that you are going to rely upon.

When that happens we will prepare a reply to the defence which will show that you are claiming third party rights and that the defendant is consenting – and that on that basis as they haven't defended on any other issue, they are accepting that the contract has been frustrated.
Along with any other documents you supply to the court before the hearing will be a copy of the letter that you have received where they clearly don't raise any objections.

I think this puts you in a very strong position

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Thank you BankFodder as soon as i receive any further documents I will post up immediately

 

Thank you I am sorry for any confusion and the posts earlier

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I think it would be helpful if you would pull all the documents that you have and which you think you are going to rely on together. Read our advice about organising your court bundle – and set about preparing it.

Don't include too much material. Only material that you think you're going to rely upon. I think you will need to obtain a copy of the regulations which made it unlawful for the venue to hold the function.

Obviously one of the documents you are going to include is the letter that you have received from the wedding venue

 

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1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

Okay, on this basis I don't think you need to file a form N244. It's clear that they're not raising any objection if you wanted to add your daughter as a second claimant, but more importantly, they seem to accept that you are a beneficial third party under the 1999 Act. Although they say it's a matter for the judge – and which it clearly is – but they are not raising any objection.

In fact I have to say that they seem to be behaving quite decently on this particular point.

 

I would think you still have to submit an application..with or without their consent.

 

Addition or substitution of claimant

2.1  Where an application is made to the court to add or to substitute a new party to the proceedings as claimant, the party applying must file:

(1) the application notice,

(2) the proposed amended claim form and particulars of claim, and

(3) the signed, written consent of the new claimant to be so added or substituted.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part19/pd_part19a#2.1

 

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But if the OP is relying on third-party rights, then that doesn't seem to be necessary – particularly as it has been addressed in correspondence and the defendant seems to be perfectly accepting of this

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But then their defence becomes void because they have not been provided opportunity to amend their original defence. ? Unless they make application to amend their defence ?

 

If neither happens then an application for summary judgment could be made as their defence is not CPR 16 compliant ?

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Thank you BankFodder and Andyorch, I will of course wait for the advice to be finalised, I will prepare the file of the documents and post up the ones which are relevant

 

Contract 

Payment from my account to them

CMA guidelines from April 2020 and September 2020

Requests for refund

Email refusing Refund in May 2020

Email to defendant requesting refund, September 2020

CMA guidelines dated 7 September 2020

Letter before claim September 2020 (no Response) 

Proof of delivery of above letter

Letter from Defendant (marked without prejudice subject to agreement) 23 September 2020

email to Defendant for adding third party rights October 15 2020

Their response dated today.

 

Please can I be advised if there are other documents I need to add and any relevant legislation, I will be back online Thursday as I am at work all  day tomorrow and until 13.00 Thursday then working from home.

 

Thank you

 

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In the letter you sent to the defendant it states .....

 

  Quote

However, in order to put the matter beyond doubt, I am making an application to the court to add my daughter as a party formally to the litigation in the event that the court considers that I should not be treated as a class of beneficiary as contemplated by the 1999 act.

I am writing to you as a matter of courtesy to inform you that I have prepared this application and I shall shortly be filing it with the court. I think it is beyond doubt that the court will agree and so the purpose of this letter is to ask you if you will consent to this order being made which will save time and expense to all parties and also a great deal of inconvenience to the court.

I’m preparing to file the application notice with the court next Monday 19 October 2020. If you agree to the order then I shall inform the court that the whole matter is by consent. In fact it would be easier in that case if you would simply indicate that you have lifted any objection to me being considered as a third party under the 1999 Act.

If you decide to maintain your objection then I shall be filing my application notice with the court and also a copy of this letter.

Expand  

 

The defendants response states that they have no objection to the claimant being involved with her daughter on a legal basis.

They did not state and this could be taken as inexperience in litigation, that therefore they should be allowed to amend their defence and will await the court  directions on re serving the claim...which is what would happen if the application went ahead.The application would allow the daughters addition and it would also allow for the plead particulars to be slightly amended to incorporate that this claimed is being made pursuant to The Third Parties Rights Act...then you all bases covered.

 

So if no application is made..after informing the defendant they will be making an application...nothing changes and we are back at square one.The particulars do not refer or plead to a claim vis a Third Party Rights Act...the claimant is not party to the contract and the defence stands as is.

 

The fact that they have given consent and agreed there is a connection between parties within their response is irrelevant as far as the court are aware ...nothing as changed from the claim or defence.

 

In response to the points raised.....

 

  Quote

If they make an application to amend the claim and to add a second claimant, then that gives the defendant an opportunity to amend their defence and maybe to pull in other issues. Correct that is the process but at least the errors have been corrected and the claim will stand on firm legal points.Far better than the court agreeing with the defence ? 

If there is simply a tacit understanding that she is suing under the third parties act – and they seem to have consented to that – then there is no formal opportunity to amend their defence and it goes to the court simply on the issue of frustration. But the particulars do not plead same and whatever is agreed and consented off record is irrelevant They've already provided a letter saying that they agree that the contract is frustrated. Yes but they have not stated that within their defence and could be deemed as hearsay

I don't understand why if they simply said to the court that they were 1/3 party under the 1999 act and that this was agreed by the defendant, that the defendant would then be given a formal opportunity to amend the defence. They may but that is not stated within the particulars at present and you are banking on a judge agreeing and allowing either an amended defence which is unlikely to happen once it gets to trial or striking out the claim because they are not party nor have they plead within its particulars that the claim is pursuant to the Third Party Rights Act.

Expand  

 

That,s my take on it.....the defendants consent only affects whether the application is with or without a hearing..their consent is not required to add a second claimant.For the sake of a £100 Application if you dot the I and cross the T...the claim proceeds without the uncertainty that they may successfully defend on technical loop hole or the claimant will succeed because the DJ is in a good mood and agrees. 

 

Andy

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Hi Andyrorch and BankFodder

 

I have just read up the posts, I am confused as to what to do, please can I be advised which route to go finally and how this is done, based on the advices to date.

 

I will be able to look into this tomorrow as I am off work most of the day tomorrow after 3pm

 

Thank you

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I think you should probably follow the approach suggested by @Andyorch who is probably more up-to-date on these things and I am

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Thank you BankFodder 

 

Please can Andyorch advise me how to make the application and what to attach I will send this off tomorrow after 3pm, I can post up the final version here of what I need to send and send this on Monday if I know what I am required to do and what I now need to send to the Court to deal with this matter fully

 

Thank you so much to you both

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I will post a draft N244 and Draft Order later......

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We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you Andyorch and BankFodder I will go through this now, Please advise if I need to repost it up or just copy and amend the form with the details and send it off Tomorrow I can attch the Pdf version tomorrow, also the claim amount plus costs and Interest are higher than in the amended notice, should i include the figure in the claim or leave it at £7700 and just add the name of my Daughter

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I will await the final confirmation tomorrow I also attach the Draft Order, please can these be checked Andyorch and BankFodder before I submit these online tomorrow I of course will amend the details to add the names etc before I send this.

In the Leicester county court Claim No. ...

Before District Judge ………

Dated 23//10 20…

Claimant/s

Mrs XXXXXXX

 

and Defendant

Goosedale

Draft Order

 

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT: 1. . Pursuant to CPR 19.4.1 and CPR 19.2.2 (a) it is requested that a second claimant Mrs xxxxxx be added to this claim. It is desirable to add the new party so that the court can resolve all the matters in dispute in the proceedings. 2. The proposed amended particulars of claim be reserved Pursuant to Practice Direction 19 ( 2.1 ) ###### End of Order ######

 

 

Amended Particulars of claim for N1.

 

The claimant and second claimant joinder seek reimbursement of £7700 paid to the defendant on XXX date 2019 in respect of a frustrated contract for a wedding venue booked for the XX date 2020 and which was cancelled by the defendant as a result of implementing government restrictions in respect of Covid 19 Legislation.The principle claimant makes this claim pursuant to Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. The defendant has refused to refund the contract price. The claimant seeks £7700 plus interest plus costs.

 

 

N244_web_0818 COMPE.pdf

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One further clarification, My daughter was married at a simple service with 10 people, on 4 October 2020, he name has since changed and do we include the old Surname or new Surname with her name in brackets for Service and will I need to get any letter from her too, as I will get this too if its needed to add her?

 

Thank you I will be online again after 13pm tomorrow

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Why has the value changed ?   Your daughter can be listed as New name ( Nee xxxxxx).

You need the letter of consent from her to add as you have stated within the order.

 

At 10 …..


Pursuant to Practice Direction 19 ( 2.1 )
2. The proposed amended claim form and particulars of claim, and
3. Please see attached the signed written consent of Mrs xxxxxxx as proposed 2nd Claimant and consent of the Defendant in making this application.

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