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Goosedale WEDDING VENUE REFUSING REFUND *** Settled by Tomlin Order***


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Hi I have just received this from the Moneyclaim on line 

 

GOOSEDALE LTD T/A GOOSEDALE has rejected your claim.

You need to tell us whether you want to continue with the claim, before 4pm on 9 November 2020.

Sign in to your account to do this: https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/dashboard

This is an automated email – we can’t respond to replies.

HM Courts & Tribunals Service
Claim number: 164MC057

Telephone: 0300 123 7050
Hours: 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday
Find out about call charges https://www.gov.uk/call-charges

Email: [email protected]

 

The response they have given is that the Claimant can not bring the claim, this is not right as the money was paid by me, from my account, the contract was signed by my daughter but this is frustrated and in any event they have been in touch with me and been aware of me being party to the agreement, they have rejected the claim on this basis, but we have continued with the claim online

 

The money came out of my account and was paid to them via the contract as my Daughter did not pay for the Venue, they are absolutely disgraceful, if it need be I will reissue the claim in my daughters name and add these costs to that claim too, but they have broken the Contract in any event, and its disgraceful what they are doing instead of issuing a refund

 

Any advice appreciated

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do I now reissue the claim against them or wait for the Court to issue their decision,

I paid the money from my account and the claim was for my money,

yes the contract was in her name, but they were dealing with me,

 

can I now resubmit the claim again in my daughters name and issue new claim with her name and wait for this one to be considered too.

 

we will wait for the Court to contact us, the claim is live and present our evidence, if this is rejected we will reissue with the my daughters name and also present the claim we issued to the Court, the contract is frustrated, so the money is paid from my account and I have evidence of this coming from my account.

 

Its disgraceful how these Companies can think they will get away with providing no service and take all the money, its more frustrating when then know the law but hide behind it unlike a lay person seeking Justice.

 

there can only be one claimant on the form the rest was described in particulars, hopefully the Judge will see what they are doing, if not we will reissue and add these costs as this claim is valid and they are just buying time, not to pay back money that have been paid in full since 2019

 

164MC057-claim-response (2) - Copy.pdf

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That's ok. You have managed now and we have seen the defence.

Please monitor this thread for a reply tomorrow

 

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Thank you

shall I post up the claim too

 

goosedale redacted 1 pdf.pdf

 

THIS WAS THEIR WITHOUT PREJUDICE LETTER i dont care about them now I will post everything

 

this is the claim and i will post up the Letter before claim which they also did not respond to.

164MC057-claim-form-claimant-copy fni.pdf

 

letter before claim

4 September 2020

 

Mr Hayer
Goosedale Farm
Goosedale Lane
Bestwood Village
NOTTINGHAM
NG6 8UJ

Letter before small claims court claim

 

Dear Mr Hayer,

I write in relation to contract reference 3057: venue hire for a wedding reception of 350 guests; a total payment of £7,700. This amount was paid in full by me on 02/04/2019. The contracted event is unable to take place due to current Government guidelines and a full refund is requested.

Below is a timetable of recent key events:

1.      On 20/03/2020 Goosedale advised our original booking for 23/05/2020 had to be postponed in line with Government guidelines. A request for a full refund was refused and Goosedale insisted we postpone our event.

2.      Due to our hands being tied as Goosedale held our full £7,700, we reluctantly agreed to post-pone to 18/07/2020.

3.      In line with Government guidelines, wedding venues remained closed on 18/07/2020 therefore a further date was secured for 08/10/2020.

4.      Goosedale have advised us that weekend bookings require a higher payment, however despite 08/10/2020 falling on a weekday, we were not offered a price reduction.

5.      Since 17/04/2020, we have received one email on 03/09/2020, with a letter attached requested a further “£250 security bond for the event on 08/10/2020”.

6.      The current Government guidelines highlight that wedding ceremonies allows for up to 30 guests at a sit-down wedding reception which came into effect from 15/08/2020. As detailed above, our current contract and payment has been for 350 people. Goosedale are not in a position to provide this service.

I draw your attention to the following legislations:

·         GOV.UK – Competition & Markets Authority Guidance – Statement on coronavirus (COVID-19), consumer contracts, cancellations and refunds dated 28/08/2020.

·         The Consumer Rights Act 2015 Unfair Terms - ss.61-76

In line with the detailed legislation and guidance, you are unable to carry out a service that I have paid for; subsequently the contract has been frustrated. Therefore, I request a full refund of £7,700 within the next 14 days.

In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim. 

Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

Yours sincerely,

 

track and trace for delivery of Letter before claim

Track and Trace - Track your Item _ Royal Mail Ltd.pdf

 

Thank you Bankfodder, I can not understand how a claim could be made by my daughter when the payment went out of my account and I have this evidence, the contract has been frustrated and accepted as such by the idiots in the Without prejudice letter and the claim is valid, my Daughter will attend as witness in any event so let them tell the judge what they want I am sick of them now

 

This is Real money I have saved for years to give my daughter a wedding which we could not now pay for, as they did not refund, we have just has a civil wedding with 6 people on Sunday as we had not received the refund.

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I will await further advice in any event my daughter will attend as a witness so the Judge can talk to her direct, as lay persons we are not aware of the legal situation, my contract was giving them money from my account and the relevance of them taking it - as far as the contract is concerned it has been frustrated so in any event it does not exist, so to preserve my claim as a lay person I used the best of my judgement, I am not legally qualified hence I am sure a Jude will understand this, but I will await further advice,thank you for your responses to my issues in this matter, I know you are trying to help.

 

 

and thank you Bankfodder I will await your response tomorrow 

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So like wise you could say why did they accept payment from someone not party to the contract......anyway its easy resolved if they wish to play games......but it will involve a fee of £100 N244.

 

 

Transfer of interest or liability

5.1  Where the interest or liability of an existing party has passed to some other person, application should be made to the court to add or substitute that person3.

5.2  The application must be supported by evidence showing the stage the proceedings have reached and what change has occurred to cause the transfer of interest or liability. 

(For information about making amendments generally, see Practice Direction 17.)

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part19/pd_part19a

 

 

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Contracts and third party rights

Even where your client is not a party to a contract, they could, in certain circumstances, be liable for obligations under it, or might be able to use it for their benefit. Their position in relation to the contract will be determined by:

  1. the common law doctrine of privity of contract and the exceptions to it—see Practice Note: Third party rights—the common law doctrine of privity of contract
  2. the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999, which is, in effect, a statutory exception to the doctrine of privity of contract—see Practice Notes: Third party rights—the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/31/section/1

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14 hours ago, intree said:

I will await further advice in any event my daughter will attend as a witness so the Judge can talk to her direct, as lay persons we are not aware of the legal situation, my contract was giving them money from my account and the relevance of them taking it - as far as the contract is concerned it has been frustrated so in any event it does not exist, so to preserve my claim as a lay person I used the best of my judgement, I am not legally qualified hence I am sure a Jude will understand this, but I will await further advice,thank you for your responses to my issues in this matter, I know you are trying to help.

 

 

and thank you Bankfodder I will await your response tomorrow 

 

Okay. First of all, don't worry this is fine.

It would be extraordinary if the family of the bride were not intended to be beneficiaries of the contract and if one needed additional proof, you have paid for the venue. Furthermore, it's absolutely a tradition internationally that the bride's family foot the bill for the wedding – regardless of how old-fashioned that idea might be.

Therefore, there is no problem here claiming first party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and there is nothing in any protocol or in the Act that says that this must specifically be pleaded.  I haven't noticed anything in the contract which specifically excludes third party rights.

Their only point in their defence is that you are not the contracting partner. They have not raised any other issues whatsoever and so in principle your reliance on the 1999 Act means that their defence fails.

Of course it won't be as easy as that – because I'm sure that they will want to amend their defence in some way – but for the moment it is a very good start. Now you see the benefit of minimal pleading in your claim because you haven't offered them any particular clues as to how to frame the defence. However you did raise the issue of frustration and they haven't addressed that point at all.

There is a well established principle of pleadings that what is not expressly denied, is admitted. So it can be said that by their silence they have admitted all the points contained in your claim and that your only task is to overcome their position that you don't have the locus to bring the claim.
Of course they are litigants in person and so they have a certain licence – but can you also are litigants in person and therefore so do you.

 

 As I suggested, they can amend their defence – and you can amend your claim, but I don't suggest that you do. Later on we will help you provide a reply to the defence and specifically address the point they are making.

However, for the moment I suggest that you simply indicate to the court you are proceeding with the claim. I notice that they have rejected mediation – so you don't have a choice. Frankly I think that was a mistake on their part.

Their defence is based on rather a technical issue and the fact that there are expressing this as a "lack of capacity" to contract suggests that they've been talking to somebody, but somebody who frankly doesn't really know very much about it.

 



Don't worry

 

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Thank you all and Especially BankFodder, I will post up the responses to the claim as and when they appear for further advices. (Please can you advise if you can see documents now as for some reason my laptop has not access to certain posts as I have a adblocker attached)

 

Thank you for you reassurance in this most difficult time of ours, we can confirm that once the matter is resolved we will make a donation to the website on a yearly basis, as this site is more valuable than any so called law firm we have ever been too or will go to.

 

Without this website, so many people would be left poorer and unheard, this website is one which is not only a very informative resource but in fact has become a reliable and credible source for me in the past 10 years I have been a member.

 

I thank you all sincerely for this wonderful help you provide and long may it continue to afford justice to the those who have no one else to turn to, against the bad and ugly of this world

 

Kindest regards

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Thank you Bankfodder

 

i have responded that the matter proceed to Court

 

Directions Questionnaire Online In the County Court Business Centre Online Civil Money Claims Claim number: 164MC057 Issued on: 22 September 2020 - response received 08 October 2020 11.13 am

 

I have informed the Court directions online that I wish the Hearing to take place in Leicester which is my nearest Court, I have also confirmed that two witnesses will need to attend myself with my husband and daughter.

 

We will now await the next stage as confirmed 

 

I will be back on line only when I get a further response as I know you are all busy with other peoples issues too, I do apologise for ranting on sometimes, but its so disheartening to see people treat customers like this.

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I didn't know you would be wanting witnesses to come along. I don't think it's a good idea – but maybe you can tell us what they are going to say and we can comment here.

If they do end up going then you need to have a very definite idea of what they are going to be saying. Of course they will be questioned by the other side – but you must know what evidence they are going to produce "in chief" – in other words the main evidence that they will be giving.

It may be that they have nothing useful to say nothing useful to add to what you are going to say in which case it will just confuse the issue.

Are you already saying that you have sent off a directions questionnaire without asking for any directions? Other than the allocation of the court

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Privity of Contract

The Contracts (Third Party Rights) Act 1999 changed the law of privity of contract.

Third parties may now enforce the terms of a contract where:

  • an express right has been granted to do so in the agreement, or
  • the contract confers a benefit to a third party.

"Confers" in this context means one of the purposes of the transaction (rather than one of its incidental effects) was to benefit the third party: Dolphin Maritime v Sveriges Angartygs (2009).

 

https://hallellis.co.uk/third-party-rights-clauses/

 

 

Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999, which provides a statutory exception to the common law doctrine of privity of contract, thus allowing contracts, which fall within its scope, to be enforceable by third parties on whom they confer a benefit.

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Hi this is Just to Update :

 

 

We’ve transferred your claim to Leicester County Court.

From now on, you should send any forms, letters or other documents to this court and contact them with any questions you have.

Sign in to see the court contact details: https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/dashboard

This is an automated email – we can’t respond to replies.

HM Courts & Tribunals Service
Claim number: XXXXXXXX

 

We’ve transferred this case from CTSC to Leicester County Court. Reason for the transfer: Judge's order Yours sincerely, District Judge McClure HM Courts & Tribunals Service

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HI please can anyone advise further as I am not sure if I should add My Daughter to the claim or not, as the defence is purely based and made on me not being party to the Agreement, hence should I now add her by writing to the Court?

 

I am a bit confused after reading all of the above comments? as to which way to take this.

 

All advice appreciated 

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Responding to your PM.

 

For simplicity it would be easier to simply add a 2nd claimant rather than argue the Law on Third Party and hope the court agrees.

The defendant has now submitted its defence denying the claim for the reasons stated....its really is a big gamble should the court not agree because they will have no defence to rely on should the claim proceed.

 

You could even consider making application to strike out the defence and request Summary Judgment....because if your claim is accepted and deemed that you are entitled to make the claim ...the defendants defence becomes none compliant with CPR 16 .5.

 

In particular ....(5) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), a defendant who fails to deal with an allegation shall be taken to admit that allegation.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16#16.5

 

Alternatively a " Change of Parties "  may be a simpler option.

 

Changes of Parties

General

1.1  Parties may be removed, added or substituted in existing proceedings either on the court’s own initiative or on the application of either an existing party or a person who wishes to become a party. 

1.2  The application may be dealt with without a hearing where all the existing parties and the proposed new party are in agreement.

1.3  The application to add or substitute a new party should be supported by evidence setting out the proposed new party’s interest in or connection with the claim.

1.4  The application notice should be filed in accordance with rule 23.3 and, unless the application is made under rule 19.2(4)1, be served in accordance with rule 23.4.

1.5  An order giving permission to amend will, unless the court orders otherwise, be drawn up. It will be served by the court unless the parties wish to serve it or the court orders them to do

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part19/pd_part19a

 

A lot to consider.....see what other suggest.

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

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Thank you Andy

 

I think you are correct it will save a lot of hassle in the long run

 

I propose the following

 

Claim No

Leicester County Court

 

Dear Sir/madam

 

Application notice  accordance with rule 23.3 and, unless the application is made under rule 19.2(4)1, be served in accordance with rule 23.4.

 

I wish to add the name of an additional claimant to my name in this matter under Rule 19.2(4) and ask the Court to allow this in the Interest of Justice.

 

Mrs xxxxx  xxxxxx 

 

This is to allow the matter to proceed to Court and save costs and time of the Court in the event that the matter will be heard at the County Court,, we duly attach the signed confirmation of the new Claimant who authorises Her addition, this also confirms she asks me to represent her in Court and against all actions against the defendant.

 

Application to Strike out Defense 

 

I also now ask the Court to Strike out the Defence of the Defendant and make summary Judgements in favour of the Claimants as noted in the Particulars of the Claim no XXXXXX

 

Kind regards

Mrs XXXX  XXXXXXX

 

Please can this be checked I will then email this to the Court I am not sure what this will cost in addition or if there needs to be two applications, but can I add this as costs to my claim?

 

 

Edited by intree
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I would hold with the application for now and wait until @Bankfodder responds and see if he is in agreement..

 

Hold the application for SJ/SO until you have the addition in place.

 

You will have to complete form N244 the fee will be £100 without a hearing...then request the order as per your post.You will have to explain the reason for addition 

 

1.3  The application to add or substitute a new party should be supported by evidence setting out the proposed new party’s interest in or connection with the claim.

 

So you state that the defendant has denied the claim on the grounds that I the claimant are not party to the contract.

 

Dont do anything until the morning.

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Well of course it is a way to go. I was going to propose simply putting in a reply to the defence pointing out that the claimant was one of a class of beneficiaries being the mother of the bride and therefore relying on the Third Parties Act 1999.

I thought it would be cheaper and quicker – but if you decide to make an application to add the party I would suggest that your reasons for doing so would be something like:

 

 

Quote

First Application:
The applicant has named themselves as claimant in this action as they are entitled under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 to enjoy all the rights of a directly contracting party. The applicant is the mother of the bride and in fact is the person who is responsible for the entire organisation of the wedding celebration and its arrangements and who is also paying for the entire event.
The defendant has responded to the claimant's particulars of claim and has defended on the sole point that the applicant lacks locus to sue.
Although the applicant does have locus under the 1999 Act, for the avoidance of doubt, the applicant is now formally seeking to add her daughter as an additional claimant to the action.
The addition of a second claimant does not alter the cause of action in any way. The facts are exactly the same and the applicant does not propose to make any further changes to the particulars of claim at this point.
On that basis, the addition of a second claimant is merely intended to clarify the position and is purely a technical alteration - and as no new issues have been raised in the particulars, there is no necessity for the defendant to make any further response to the claim.
It is in the interests of justice that you be allowed to proceed with your claim either on the basis of your third party rights or with an amendment which is purely technical

Second application:
The Defendant has defended purely on the issue of the status of the claimant. The substantive allegation in the particulars of claim that the contract is frustrated has not been addressed and is therefore admitted by the defendant.
Accordingly, it is requested that the court enters judgement for the claimant with an order that the defendant pays the judgement sum forthwith.

Costs:
As this application is merely a technical clarification but the claimant maintains their position that they are entitled to sue under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999, and as the amendment proposed by this application raises no new issues, and as the defendant has not defended on any substantive issues raised in the claim, it is requested that the court orders that the costs of this application follow the judgement.

 

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The only thing I don't like about doing it this way, is that it would have been nicer to leave the reply to the defence should pointed out to the court that the claimant was exercising third party rights, the last moment

Technically, with an application, the defendant will have a chance to respond and effectively they may decide to use this moment to change the defence and to specifically address the issue of the frustrating contract.

I'm not sure which approach is best.

 

I will also add, that if it had been clear in the opening post to this thread as to who did what in terms of organising and finalising the contract, then we would have referred to the third parties act in the original claim and this would have put it beyond doubt

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Thank you so much Andyorch and BankFodder

 

I am mindful that I was wrong to not include the name of my daughter in the original claim, but MCOL only allow one claimant, I was also of the opinion (wrong now I know) that the money went from my bank and I have a contract on this basis, they have accepted the payment direct from me to their Business of £7700, hence my claim in my name.

 

I understand they wish to dispute this as per their letter to my daughter above titled Without Prejudice  knowing I was dealing with them all the time, they have refused to refund money for which they have never provided anything, other than grief and where I am incurring further costs to recover my money they have had since April 2019.

 

I am also concerned of the further cost implications, I can confirm my daughter was married in September and a registry took place on 4 October 2020, she will now be moving abroad, however I can confirm I have not been able to give any kind of reception to her as I had no money and my husband is not well, I have had to just do the two ceremonies without any event, this is so distressing as I had saved for my daughters special day since she was 15.

 

Going back to the current situation:

 

I can now either wait for a Hearing date to be set, and present the above and/or hope the Judge will just make the changes free of charge as detailed in the Rules under their own motion to do so. hopefully the Judge will make the order on their own or I if not at that time I can send in the Submission from BankFodder and the approach by Andyorc

 

If this does not happen I can then present the Application above, and the evidence as follows:

 

1. Daughters signed consent to be added to the claim

2. My Invoice and bank statements to the effect that I paid 7700 by BACS transfer to Goosedale accepted payment and this is the Contract with me.

3. The without prejudice letter to my Daughter refusing a refund 

4. The contract which is 2 pages long and was given to my daughter to sign.

 

The only concern I had was that they are just buying time, again and again, and if the Hearing is in 4 weeks, my daughter in any event will not be in the country and I will be representing her at that time, will this be a concern or should I proceed and get the application in, and deal with the matters as they arise.

 

The other concern I have is that they have had the money since 2019, I have been left out of pocket I really do not have any money to continue spending like they want me to as they clearly do not care, they basically dont give a damn as you can see from their responses, they also do not want to mediate or send any evidence to support their defence.

 

So I can wait until the Hearing but then they can continue to change the defence at that time also, which is another 4 to 6 weeks away they will then just prolong the matters, I have sent them a Letter before claim and also been asking for a refund since that time, they have refused stating "without Prejudice" NO.

 

I would be grateful if this can be looked at so that I can approach this correctly from now.

 

 

 

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Don't worry about the confusion of the beginning. You weren't to know. Frankly it's not massively serious.

If you are going to ask the judge to make the changes under their own motion then I think that you should supply some information – broadly based on the application which I suggested above.

  • The important thing is to make very clear are that – firstly, it is clear to anybody experienced in the wedding business that there will be a number of beneficiaries to any wedding celebration – in particular the immediate family – and in particular, the family of the bride. Therefore you clearly come within the class of persons envisaged by the 1999 act and therefore you inherit rights to bring an action – which is what you are doing.
  • The addition of your daughter is simply to clarify the position, but it changes nothing. In effect it is merely a technical matter.
  • Finally, you have not changed the basis of the substantive claim in any way. Your particulars of claim make it clear that the contract is frustrated – and that remains the case, and unless the defendant raises any further issues, that will remain your position.
  • It is in the interests of justice that you be allowed to proceed with your claim either on the basis of your third party rights or with an amendment which is purely technical

 

Therefore you feel that if the judge accepts that you are a class of beneficiary envisaged by the 1999 act, then there would be no need for the court to amend the claim on its own motion. However, if the judge feels that the clarification is necessary, then the amendment should be made in the full knowledge that there is no disadvantage to the defendant's position because no new issues have been raised.

Furthermore, the defendant has not challenged the issue of frustration is simply sought to raise a technical obstacle to the progress of the claim.

These are the points which must be made to the judge either in supporting a request that the court makes the amendment on its own motion, or which must be made in any application you decide to make to amend the claim form.
 

 

You will be unable to represent your daughter at a face-to-face court hearing. She would have to be present. However, if you are the litigating party because of third party rights, then you will be entitled to speak at the hearing because you will be a litigant

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By the way, if we had known about the way that the contract had been arrived at, then we would simply have advised you to assert from the outset that you were relying on your inherited rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act

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thank you BankFodder

 

So shall I write to the Court as above and include your submission in #83  and the evidence stated in #85 above, or wait until the Hearing - I can just write to the Court and ask the Judge considers this under thier own motion, to save costs time and a hearing?

 

or 

 

Wait until the Hearing and see what the Judge says and then submit the Application.

 

Just this to clarify would be a help I can then post up the full submission letter I will send to the Court.

 

I can confirm that I will need to represent my Daughter in Court as she will move abroad, but will be able to provide statements to confirm that the contract she has signed is Frustrated and the money needs to be refunded.

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I would definitely write to the court in advance. I think the judge deftly needs an opportunity to see what you are saying and to consider it.

My own instinct is that the judge will accept completely that you enjoy third party rights. Personally I think that the defendant has latched onto this as a way of obstructing you.

I'm going to make a slight amendment to the two posts which I made above with the suggested representations

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