Goosedale WEDDING VENUE REFUSING REFUND *** Settled by Tomlin Order***

[AndyOrch]

On 01/01/2021 at 16:02, intree said:

I can confirm that I have received their embarrassed type defence from a Firm of solicitors in Liverpool on their behalf,

 

Have you been officially informed by the court and defendant ?

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part42

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part42/pd_part42

 

[intree]

Hi Andy 

No we have never been informed of a change of representative or if these are new representatives for Goosedale, we just received the 5 pages attached no other letter or contact in a unmarked unrecorded envelope.

 

I can not understand how they can just make up facts and send these to the Court as they have, then sign a statement to say its the truth?

 

I will not do anything to respond and will again just follow the advices from the Forum as alwaya.

 

Thank you

[AndyOrch]

Check with your County Court to see if they have received same (Defence).....also check to see if they have sought permission to use/change Legal Counsel.

 

Inform the court the court you wish to proceed with the claim (if you have not already received a Directions Questionnaire) 

 

There is is no requirement to respond to the defence at this stage.

[intree]

Thank you for your response Andy I had left my laptop logged in all day

 

I can confirm that I propose to write the following as per the advice :

 

The Leicester County Court

Leicester

 

 

Claim no XXXXXX

Claimants XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX V Goosedale Ltd

 

Dear Sir/madam

 

We are the Claimants in the Case, we would be grateful if the Court can:

 

1) Provide a copy of the defence from the defendant, which was to be issued by the 5 January 2021.

2) Confirm that the Defendant have sought permission from the Court to use/change Legal Counsel.

3) Note that we wish to proceed with this claim.

 

We await the Directions questionnaire and the response to the above as soon as possible.

 

Kind regards

 

Mrs XXXXXXXXXXX Miss xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

2) Confirm that the Defendant have sought permission from the Court to use/change Legal Counsel. Pursuant to CPR 42 and Practice Direction 42 (1.2 /1a/b)

 

[intree]

Thank you Andyorch I will send this off immediately to the court with the amendment made above.

 

I will of course keep the forum updated as soon as any response is received.

[BankFodder]

This is an extract from the CMA news story published on 26 November. It was actually first posted on this thread by my site team colleague @honeybee13

 

Quote

Many couples will be entitled to a full refund, but in the cases where they are not, we are absolutely clear there is no ‘one size fits all’ approach to retaining costs. Any proposed deduction should only cover costs already incurred in relation to the particular wedding in question, and those costs should be proven by the firm and clearly broken down. All wedding firms need to take note of the CMA’s action in this area and provide refunds where they are due, without unnecessary delay. Those who refuse to do so risk enforcement action.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-refunds-cma-warns-wedding-firms-over-unfair-practices

 

I've just posted up another extract from it.

I strongly suggest that this news item and other related matter from the CMA and other authorities is included in the court bundle.

Possibly relevant extracts can be highlighted for the attention of the judge .

 

It seems extraordinary to me that reputable companies are prepared to stake their reputation on this kind of thing and also that they prefer to incur legal fees enlisting professional help rather than simply trying to sort it out on a sensible customer-facing and economically sound basis.

Some companies seem to marginalise the whole issue of reputational risk. What a shame.

Unfortunately, legal education and legal training in the UK is very much conflict-oriented – especially where only small amounts of money are involved.

If this was being dealt with on a commercial basis – or for instance, in Japan, a pragmatic view would be taken as to the transaction costs involved and I expect that the dispute would never even have gotten this far.

I think this is another reason why somebody should have a close look at the quality and scope of legal training in this country.

The transaction costs involved in litigation include, at least the cost of litigation, the loss of reputation and the loss of a potential business partner or client in the future. Big Fail!

 

 

[AndyOrch]

I expect that by now you have received the Proposed Notice of Allocation to Small claims track.

 

This must be completed and filed and served by the date stated....not before!!

 

 

 

[intree]

Hi Andy I can confirm that the Court has listed the claim for a Hearing and we are to submit the DQ before 25/01.

I can post the information on the forum if this is confirmed here.

 

We will be fully disputing the defence as confirmed by BankFodder and the previous postings, as the defendants have ignored the LBC and the Guidance from the Government since March 2020.

 

Indeed the Defendant has confirmed already the contract has been frustrated, but went on to confirm that he wished the claim to proceed before a Judge to make the Judgement as he did not wish to comply with the Competition and Markets Authority advice in this matter which was sent to him in March and also again in September 2020, this is unreasonable conduct and will be dealt with at the Hearing.

 

We have incurred costs and distress and also inconvenience to date, as well as further waste of Court time and our time in this matter, 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-refunds-cma-warns-wedding-firms-over-unfair-practices

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-cma-to-investigate-cancellation-policy-concerns

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/915278/Open_letter_to_Weddings_providers_7sept20.pdf

 

We also will be asking for costs in this matter and Litigant in person costs and would be grateful for advice in this from the Forum,

 

we can confirm that we are indebted to the Forum for its assistance, in this matter and hope that other parents, brides and grooms will take their claim to the Court and consider the advice of the Forum here and not let these companies keep money which they have not provided any service for or indeed have any intention to provide, this is illegal as confirmed by the CMA.

 

this was confirmed in the statement below in April 2019.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

[intree]

We have now received the AQ from the Court as attached, I can confirm that my emails have been down since last week and I have not been able to upload further documents as this is not going to be resolved until they have a engineer to come repair the system.

 

I attach the order received from the Court 

Directions Questionaire Goosedale CAG.pdf

[BankFodder]

Please can the OP contact us by email at our admin email address as we have had a press enquiry about this issue.

Thank you

[intree]

Hi BankFodder, my emails are all down until Saturday, as Virgin have not been able to send a engineer out to repair the cables, I have logged into my sons account and accessed this website and just found this message, I will of course email the above address as soon as the emails are working which I am advised will be by 3pm Saturday 16 January 2021.

 

I am in the process of doing the AQ and will of course send this as advised by Andyorch by 25 January 2021 to the Court, I am also awaiting the courts response to the failure of the Defendants to follow the procedure regarding change of the defendants legal advisor. please can I be advised do I need to respond defence which came with the DQ, or leave the response as the claim is proceeding to Court. I will keep checking this site periodically as I am not receiving any notifications to my virgin account as advised until 16/01/21.

 

I can confirm that we have reported Goosedale to the CMA and they have also requested further details to investigate this company.

Edited January 14, 2021 by intree
DQ

[AndyOrch]

The DQ is fairly straight forward to complete....post here if there is anything your unsure of.It must be filed at the court by 25th 4.00pm and a copy served on the Solicitor assuming you have conformation by the court that they have been granted permission to act for the defendant by that date.....otherwise do not serve a copy as this could be a breach of the DPA.

 

 

[intree]

Thank you Andy 

 

The Court have not confirmed solicitors so we shall proceed as agreed with the DQ by 25 January 2021.

[intree]

On 13/01/2021 at 07:37, BankFodder said:

Please can the OP contact us by email at our admin email address as we have had a press enquiry about this issue.

Thank you

Hi Bankfodder I have now sent this email to you.

 

I await further communication

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I have been in contact with the national press but also some local press from the Nottingham area – and naturally, they are all interested in these kinds of things at this moment.

[BankFodder]

Just in case you're not aware, here is another case of a wedding venue trying to hang onto all the money during the Covid crisis.

The discussion has just begun – and I suppose we will have more people considering that it is inappropriate to discuss these legal matters on a public forum.

oh dear.

[intree]

Seems to be a delusion that these Venus have that they can keep money they do not provide any service for, here is the DQ from Goosedale - he now wants the claim to be heard in Nottingham and wants mediation, when he has made us incur over £500 in costs, wasted Court time and also refused to consider the CMA guidelines.

 

It appears he has now dismissed his legal team, although he may think the Judge will listen to his claim that he can provide no service and still keep the money - Wow how can this be allowed when there is a law against this which has been clear and concise set out in the CMA letter sent to this venue and others since March 2020.t

I am awaiting the Press to publicise this venue and others like them, who have abused the very people who wanted to use them for one of the most memorable days of their lives.

 

They certainly have made it memorable, never to use them again - Advice to others Take them to Court and let a Judge see what they are doing its not moral or indeed acceptable.

 

 

 

Scans_20210122_150955.pdf

[BazzaS]

I particularly admire the response to "are there any dates in the next 6 months", where he states 23/7/21-5/9/21, which is (just) outside of 6 months....... as well as "for the parties convenience" when he means "for THIS party's convenience.

 

It isn;t for your convenience!

 

I hope your DQ notes he is a business, you are self-represented ( used to be called a 'litigant in person'), and thus you invite the Court to decide the hearing should be held at the County Court nearest your home ......

[intree]

 

 

We will of course be informing the Court that we are LIP and the costs we have had to incur due to the unreasonable behaviour of the defendant including forcing us to incur costs and further costs, and refusing to deal with the LBC.

 

On a more ethical tone the firm of solicitors noted here are correct in the interpretation of the law as it stood since March 2019,

 

https://www.ellisjones.co.uk/blog/article/what-is-the-current-effect-of-coronavirus-on-my-wedding-contract

 

Goosedale the defendant has been given all these facts and informed that our daughter was married in a Civil ceremony last year with 15 Guests, hence they are not only wasting Court time but have cost us severe distress, inconvenience and loss of money to date, all which will be dealt with at a Hearing now. where the Defendant stated only a Judge can make the order to make him refund the money, hence his actions have caused immense waste of Court time and is an abuse of the Court Process, shame on Goosedale and equally shame on DWF what a joke !!

 

CMA have given the correct interpretation of the law - THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO KEEP A SINGLE PENNY THEY HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANYTHING FOR they have known this since March 2019.

 

 

 

[BazzaS]

He is correct, though that only a judge can order him to refund the money.

 

You can’t complain about him saying only a judge can order it: that’s what the County Courts do - adjudicate disputes. You can complain that the guidelines make it clear what the outcome will be, so his behaviour is unreasonable.

 

”That, Sir” (or Madam), “is the crux of why we are here. I suggest it is inevitable that you will find the refund must be made, and the Defendant should have seen that, but their intransigence has led to this matter reaching you”.

 

[intree]

Thank you BazzaS, I completely agree with you!  

 

 

[intree]

Hi just received this from the Court, it appears they are still wasting our and the Court time, and denying the full refund as requested, we will of course deal with this at the Hearing.

General Form of Judgment or Order CAG.pdf

[AndyOrch]

There may be no hearing if they don't file it by the date stated...you get judgment.

 

DQs should have been filed by the 25th Jan...Court Order dated 16th Feb allowing until 2nd March

Defendant is now 3.5 weeks late and allowed a further 2 weeks....5 weeks in all.

 

Notice the order states that it has been made without a hearing so you are fully entitled to have to order stayed or set a side...involves more fees though (n244) 

 

CPR 26 is quite clear ,,,

 

(7A) If a claim is a claim to which rule 26.2A applies and a party does not comply with the notice served under rule 26.3(1) by the date specified –

 

(a) the court will serve a further notice on that party, requiring them to comply within 7 days; and

 

(b) if that party fails to comply with the notice served under subparagraph (a), the party’s statement of case will be struck out without further order of the court.

 

(8) If a claim is a claim to which rule 26.2 applies and a party does not comply with the notice served under rule 26.3(1) by the date specified, the court will make such order as it considers appropriate, including –

 

(a) an order for directions;

(b) an order striking out the claim;

(c) an order striking out the defence and entering judgment; or

(d) listing the case for a case management conference.

(9) Omitted

 

(10) Where a case has been struck out under rule 26.3(7A)(b) or an order has been made under 26.3(8), a party who was in default will not normally be entitled to an order for the costs of any application to set aside or vary that order nor of attending any case management conference and will, unless the court thinks it unjust to do so, be ordered to pay the costs that the default caused to any other party.

[intree]

Thank you for the advice Andy, I will of course post up any further directions or orders as they arrive, including all responses from the Defendant.