Goosedale WEDDING VENUE REFUSING REFUND *** Settled by Tomlin Order***

[intree]

We have a concern regarding the following matters and would be grateful for your advice on how to proceed in this matter.

 

 Wedding Hall Hire, Nottingham - Dry Venue only

Booked 02 April 2019- booked for 350 people

Paid £7700 cash due 

 

Wedding was to be held on Saturday 23rd May 2020.

Venue confirmed cancellation of venue via email however stated that we must take postponement and stated we were not going to get a refund.

 

We told them if a date could not be agreed on then we would need our money back.

They said they could postpone the date but will not provide refund.

the venue refused point blank stating they have incurred costs, but could not explain or state what these costs were (based on our booking). 

 

Payment of £7700 was for the hire of room only.

All other services (catering, decor, DJ and drinks) were paid to external providers who have since who have refunded us our deposits/money paid.

In some cases external providers have accommodated to provide their services on the new wedding date.

 

Following some conversations with the venue, they said the only availability they had was 18th July 2020.

We therefore grudgingly obliged as we were very concerned about the loss of money we would loose if we didn't.

This was agreed on the following; similar amount of guests, full service for what we had paid for and all the amenities that we had signed and paid for. 

18 July 2020. Lockdown was still in force. No one from venue contacted us so did not contact us. 

 

Following this we then rearranged the wedding for Thursday 8th October 2020 (private religious ceremony in accordance to government guidelines), notifying the venue of this change.

The venue confirmed that this was okay (confirmation email available on request).

This agreement was based on the original contract, no changes made (no reduction of guests or services).

 

We now seek for the amount of £7700 now to be refunded as under government guidance, social gatherings/wedding receptions exceeding 30 people are prohibited.

Our contract with the venue was signed and confirmed for services which would no longer be allowed and 350 guests (illegal under COVID policies). 

 

In order to protect our money we have now had to postpone the wedding twice, all to adhere to the venue's availability.

We can no longer go ahead with this as the wedding reception we had agreed upon can no longer be carried out. 

 

It is now 28 August, we still have a wedding reception planned for 350 guests as venue have now ceased contact with us.

venue (last contact made was 17/04/2020) had stated Thursday 8th October was the only date now available to us and repeated no refund will be given.

 

This is extremely unfair as we have now postponed twice to assist them, but they have not made any attempt to help or assist us, we have now no option but to continue with the wedding, but will not be able to use the services of the Venue or Dry Hire of the Hall.

 

venue cancelled in May 2020 and we accepted this cancellation (because of the lockdown), they have since stated it was no a cancellation but we can cancel by all means but still will get NO REFUND.

 

Our concern now is that we have to continue with the wedding as planned (religious ceremony confirmed for October).

venue have point blank refused to (after we moved the wedding day twice to match the venue's availability) to give any of our money back.

We still need to pay for the religious ceremony and are in a difficult financial position as venue is holding onto a large amount of our personal funds.

 

The absence of calls (venue are no longer answering our calls) and other communications have evidently placed a significant amount of anxiety upon ourselves as this is a large amount of money for myself and my family and we struggle with the knowledge of our money being deliberately withheld from us. 

 

Further assistance on this matter would be greatly appreciated,

[AndyOrch]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic

[intree]

That's correct they have refused to provide any refund since March 2020. 

We have received contact from them this evening requesting an additional £250 "security bond" they have refused to Refund since April 2020

 

This is the first contact we have had from them since April...instead of updating us on the current situation, they are asking for more money! Suggests they have no intention of providing a refund as they originally refused in March 2020. 

 

 

This is their stance since April 2020 despite the fact that we have now postponed twice and it looks like 8 October 2020, which is a Thursday and the only date they would confirm  ( originally booked the venue for a Saturday wedding) they will not refund the money and use the clause above 

 

I can only upload the terms and conditions via copy and paste hence my earlier post, so apologies if that caused confusion and hopefully the post is clearer on our position 

 

 

 

 

 

So this is where we are I did not want to post up their details but I have been left with no choice as they simply don’t care and I really need to get advice to get a refund 

 

 

thank you 

docs1.pdf

[AndyOrch]

How did you make payment ?   Please dont state bank transfer...credit card ?

[intree]

It was a bank transfer they would not accept credit card 

 

They only accept cash or bank transfer they refused credit cards - we understand that this is problem hence we need to go down the Court route as they just do not care so any advice on this will be greatly appreciated 

[AndyOrch]

Then start the process.....draft out a letter of claim stating your position and what you require using the relevant legislation I have provided...not too lengthy..allowing them 14 days to respond.

 

May also be worthwhile registering a complaint with the FOS.

 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/banking-and-payments/disputed-transactions

[AndyOrch]

Along with the coronavirus legislation you will also have to refer to the following.

 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/366-the-consumer-contracts-regulation/

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/332-the-consumer-rights-act-2015/

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/contents/made

[intree]

Letter before claim was delivered on 6 September 2020 by recorded delivery

 

We have not had a response but a call indicating they will not refund.

 

These are their details on Companies house and they are trading still so we cant understand their logic?

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=goosedale

[intree]

I have now written up the Claim and will post this, we have also been informed by the DJ they will counter-sue for the full amount if we take them to Court for the £500 we are at a loss? We we have also included interest from the date they refused the Money in May as we are having to borrow to fund the wedding in three weeks, its so disheartening as we also have to pay £415 to put the claim in when they could have just resolved this matter!

 

Are they not bothered about customers at all, they are prepared to keep money without providing any service at all

 

Its so shameful

[BankFodder]

I've just scanned this thread briefly. They are not proceeding with the contract because of laws which have been imposed as a result of the virus crisis.

If this is correct then this amounts to a frustrated contract. Frustrated by supervening illegality and in principle the contract should be set aside and  you should be entitled to recover all of your money.

Please post up the particulars of claim – keep it very short. No need to send any further details. However it should mention that the contract is frustrated.

 

post it up here before you click it off

[intree]

Particulars of claim :

 

 

Frustration of Contract and Unfair terms in relation to a request of the refund monies paid when no service provided for wedding event on 23/05/2020 as agreed or at any later date up to date of claim or thereafter.

 

1.       On 01/04/2019 we confirmed our booking for 23/05/2020 for 350 guests. Please refer to document titled “Wedding Reception Contract”.  There were no terms and conditions attached nor were they provided to us. 

 

2.       We were pressured into make a full payment of £7,700 to secure the date for 23/05/2020, as the dates would not be guaranteed without a full payment.  Full payment was made on 02/04/2019.

 

3.       On 15/12/2019 we contacted the Events Manager who informed us that she was no longer employed by Goosedale Limited.

 

4.       We made a number of calls but none of these were returned.  We finally made contact with Mrs F on 13/01/2020 to explain that we understand our Events Manager has left and who would be the new Events Manager. 

 

5.       An on-site appointment was made on 20/01/2020 at Goosedale, together with our wedding catering provider but this was double booked and we were seen by the admin officer who had limited information as our wedding plans.

 

6.       On 20/01/2020 after the on-site appointment the new Events Manager, Mr xxxx contacted us he would be the duty manager on the wedding day. 

 

7.       On 21/01/2020 Mr xxxxx sent us the catering pack.

 

8.       On 29/02/2020 we had an on-site meeting with Mr Nick Singh at 10am.

 

9.       On 05/03/2020 Mr xxxxx sent us a summary of the on-site discussion.

 

10.   On 20/03/2020 we emailed Goosedale Limited requesting an update for alternative dates or refunds following Government Guidelines regarding COVID-19.  Mr xxxx responded that Goosedale Limited would be postponing events booked for April and May 2020.  Alternative dates were the only option and no refunds were available.

 

11.   We provided alternative dates none of which were available for Goosedale Limited. They confirmed they had no availability for July 2020 and August 2020 in any of their rooms within their venue.   

 

12.   On 23/03/2020 we requested a full refund as the original wedding date for 23/05/2020 could not go ahead. Mr xxxx confirmed that Goosedale Limited would not be issuing full refunds and attached the Terms and Conditions.  This was the first time we had seen this document. Following his refusal to return the full refund, we offered Goosedale Limited to hold onto out deposit and return the rest of our money until the matter was resolved.

 

13.   In the absence of a response from Mr xxxx, we further emailed him on 26/03/2020 and requested an update. On 27/03/2020, Mr Nick Singh offered us 18/07/2020 for 350 guests which we agreed and received another booking confirmation on 30/03/2020.

 

14.   Due to rise in COVID-19 and the uncertainty with events going ahead in July 2020, on 17/04/2020 we secured an alternative date for 350 guests to take place on 08/10/2020 in line with the original booking. Unfortunately, we have not received a booking confirmation for this event.

 

15.   Wedding venues remained closed until 15/08/2020 and now allow for 30 sit-down guests only.

 

16.   Goosedale Limited have advised us that weekend bookings require a higher payment, however despite 08/10/2020 falling on a weekday, we were not offered a price reduction.

 

17.   No further communication was received from 17/04/2020 until an email on 03/09/2020, with a letter attached requested a further “£250 security bond for the event on 08/10/2020”.

 

18.   On 04/09/2020, we wrote to Goosedale Limited requesting a full refund.  A Letter before court action was issued giving Goosedale Limited 14 days to refund the money.

 

19.   They received the Letter before Court action on 6/09/2020 in which the request for a refund in full was made, this was sent by recorded delivery which was logged as Received by them and documented the facts to claim a full refund.

 

20.   We have received no communication to the Letter before Court action and have incurred costs up to that date, in trying to resolve the matter.  Goosedale Limited have remained silent on the matter and have no disregard about how this has affected us financially

 

21.   We have been subject to unfair practices under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as Goosedale Ltd have refused a refund “stating no refunds available under any circumstances”.

 

22.   The CMA issues guidelines on 28 August 2020 (attached) which confirmed that the Contract has become frustrated, and the Terms No Refund are not legal terms to be imposed on customers, who have to cancel due to the COVID.

 

23.   We have tried to be reasonable under the Circumstances including working with the Venue to rearrange dates right up to August 2020 however it has become clear that, the venue can not provide the service we have paid for since 23 May 2020, and they have unreasonably held on to our funds, without providing any service under the Contract.

 

24.   We have no additional contracts with the Venue and they have imposed terms which deny a refund, despite informing them in the Letter before action that we  request a refund of the full amount, this now includes interest from the day the Service was not provided up to the date of Trial, as we have been reasonable throughout the conduct of this matter.

 

25.   We have now had to face additional charges and costs which we will ask the Court to award at the Hearing, we can confirm that we have attempted to resolve this matter amicably since March 2020, but have been met with a blank excuse to deny a refund.

 

26.   The current Government guidelines highlight that wedding ceremonies allows for up to 30 guests at a sit-down wedding reception which came into effect from 15/08/2020. As detailed above, our current contract and payment has been for 350 people. Goosedale Limited are not in a position to provide this service.

Legislation :

 

We have made Goosdale aware of the legislation we will be relying on below, again we have waited for a response and this has not been forthcoming.

 

GOV.UK – Competition & Markets Authority Guidance – Statement on coronavirus (COVID-19), consumer contracts, cancellations and refunds dated 28/08/2020.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 Unfair Terms

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/contents/made

 

The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2014

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made

 

[intree]

This is the contract the DJ is relying on to refuse the refund, indicating they can still provide the service and we have cancelled despite the fact that we have no venue, they have threatened to counter sue for the 2500 in addition to the retained deposit.

 

 

T+Cs.pdf

[BankFodder]

I've only started to look at this. My site team colleague @Andyorch has been dealing with it and is familiar with it. Best to wait until he comes along. However I would say this immediately that your particulars of claim is far too long and there is too much narrative.
I'm afraid most of it can be cut out
 

Just to begin a quick commentary, line 10 and then again at line 14, you talk about the change of date but you don't make it at all clear who was the initiator of the date change. It's all very vague and it could be taken that you had made the proposal for an alternative date.
Please can you clarify.

However, on the basis of what I understand so far, you booked a wedding on a particular date and it was cancelled/postponed on the initiative of Goosedale and that you tried to accommodate them. They eventually proposed a weekend date but wanted more money for it despite the fact that it was they who had change the date.

I'm not entirely sure whether there were legal constraints in place at the time or whether this was some policy that they were operating of their own initiative by way of taking a responsible approach to the virus problem

 

In fact I realise that you had originally booked a weekend and they proposed a weekday but without offering a refund.

[intree]

Hi BankFodder

 

The marriage was to take place on 23 May 2020, they did not contact us, after the Regulations for Covid restrictions were in place from 15 March, they then stated that no Refund is available, and we can can only have a alternative date, failing which there is no Refund.

 

We have tried our utmost to accommodate the dates they have given however it is no longer possible to keep the venue for 350 people as we have cancelled the wedding and there will be a religious ceremony for 30 persons, accordingly we wrote to them indicating the guidelines from Andy, they have together with the DJ informed us - No refund - take the matter to Court and we will counterclaim for damages.

 

This is where we are at this stage. Hope this clarifies - they only offered alternative dates when we requested the refund as they had postponed all events from May onwards  then stated they are allowed to keep all the money we paid- however the lockdown is still live.

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry but what you're saying is rather unclear.

Quote

The marriage was to take place on 23 May 2020, they did not contact us, after the Regulations for Covid restrictions were in place from 15 March, they then stated that no Refund is available, 

 

It's unclear whether you are saying that they did not contact you at all or that after the Covid restrictions were in place they did not contact you.

It might be easier if you would express the timeline in a bullet pointed chronology. No narrative

[intree]

39 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I've only started to look at this. My site team colleague @Andyorch has been dealing with it and is familiar with it. Best to wait until he comes along. However I would say this immediately that your particulars of claim is far too long and there is too much narrative.
I'm afraid most of it can be cut out
 

Oh dear shall we just leave the main points and the law we are relying on as follows:

Below is a timetable of recent key events:

1.      On 20/03/2020 Goosedale advised our original booking for 23/05/2020 had to be postponed in line with Government guidelines. A request for a full refund was disregarded and Goosedale insisted we postpone our event.

2.      Due to our hands being tied as Goosedale held our full £7,700, we reluctantly agreed to post-pone to 18/07/2020.

3.      In line with Government guidelines, wedding venues remained closed on 18/07/2020 therefore a further date was secured for 08/10/2020.

4.      Goosedale have advised us that weekend bookings require a higher payment, however despite 08/10/2020 falling on a weekday, we were not offered a price reduction.

5.      Since 17/04/2020, we have received one email on 03/09/2020, with a letter attached requested a further “£250 security bond for the event on 08/10/2020”.

6.      The current Government guidelines highlight that wedding ceremonies allows for up to 30 guests at a sit-down wedding reception which came into effect from 15/08/2020. As detailed above, our current contract and payment has been for 350 people. Goosedale are not in a position to provide this service.

 

Please can you advise if this is more appropriate 

 

[intree]

On 19/09/2020 at 15:06, BankFodder said:

In fact I realise that you had originally booked a weekend and they proposed a weekday but without offering a refund.

We have also never seen the terms and conditions until they were asked for a refund in March 2020, they stated they could not offer like for like and there would be no refund despite the fact that we had to move to a Thursday wedding, we have to continue with this date for 30 people alebit at without a reception but they have held our money since April 2019 we are at a total loss.

 

On 19/09/2020 at 15:12, BankFodder said:

Thank you. When you use the word "disregarded" – do you mean that they declined or they simply ignored your request?

Yes they advised no refunds will be given and if we do not postpone we lose the whole amount of 7700

The Dj has now taken the same stance, this is money we can not afford, my daughter is so distraught as she was hoping they would see sense - they just do not care

 

We have a written response where they first postponed the event, then told us nothing is postponed but we can cancel as they are not cancelling and we would get no refund - or we have to postpone and get a alternative date, now lockdown continues and they have disregarded the Letter before claim

[intree]

Based on the CMA guidelines any event before August 28 was deemed to have been cancelled due to a frustrated contract as the venue could not provide the service or offer a suitable alternative, however despite indicating this to the Venue and the DJ they have stated " we will counterclaim" this seems illogical as they can simply not provide the service we have paid for without breaking the law, both in May 2020 and now, so we dont know what they are charging us for?  Can you see our concerns!

 

they did not contact us, however when we contacted them in March to ask if the wedding was to go ahead in May 2020, they advised no they were postponing all weddings, this is when they stated they will not refund and issued us terms and conditions which we have never seen before, indicating that no Refunds can be given, sorry if its confusing 

 

we have it in Writing indicating no refunds can be given and the only thing they can offer is a alternative date, however when we came to make arrangements they could not offer dates which were suitable, but we were advised that there is Strictly no refunds

[BankFodder]

Does this particulars of claim address the issue?

 

Quote

The claimants seek reimbursement of £7700 paid to the defendant on XXX date 2019 in respect of a frustrated contract for a wedding venue booked for the XX date 2020 and which was cancelled by the defendant as a result of implementing government restrictions in respect of Covid 19. The defendant has refused to refund the contract price. The claimant seeks £7700 plus interest plus costs

 

No. You don't seem to understand. That is the particulars of claim. What more do you need?

 

By the way, don't send anything off until @Andyorch has seen it and commented.

[intree]

Shall we make this the main focus of the claim and leave all other points as above out BankFodder and shall we link the relevant law as above in post for the claim 

 

I will amend to keep it to just this and remove everything else thank you Sir

 

We will issue this as the claim if this is correct

 

Of Course thank you BankFodder God bless you

 

Agreed we will wait for Andy to reconfirm and just make this the claim

 

thank you again BF

[BankFodder]

Well you are the one who has to decide if it's correct. You have to check it, and see if you think that if there is anything missing. You are the one who is going to have to sign is a statement of truth. As I've already said, wait until @Andyorch has commented.

However, the correct approach to a particular's claim is that you provide the minimum amount of information – and then you let the other side raise all their points and disclose all their arguments in their defence. You shouldn't disclose any more of your own facts or of your own evidence as all you are doing is giving the other side cues as to how to respond

 

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to a stoning.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Yes I have to agree with Bankfodder...your particulars are far too much in depth...plus you will be restricted to 1080 characters anyway... It will form the basis of your witness statement further into the process..but for now less is more.

 

Initial particulars should be succinct and brief....stating your position... brief details the dispute...the date.... and how much you are claiming.....plus interest.....anything further you are simply giving the defendant detail to use as their defence...and later their statement of case.

 

I would go with the suggested particulars by BF.....its for them to explain why they think they are exempt from complying.

 

Andy 

[intree]

Update, they have not responded until after the 14 days and the claim was issued, they are stating they wll not refund and we need to postpone for a further 9 months, and if not they will ask the Court to Decide the outcome, we will now not respond as the claim has been issued

 

Their letter was sent via email - Stating without prejudice and subject to agreement.

 

We are astonished by their behaviour and will now await the Court to decide or their defence to the claim.

[BankFodder]

Sorry I don't quite understand. You've just recently issue the claim – right? They've responded already? Have they acknowledged the claim or have they filed a defence?

When does the 14 days for them to do so expire? At the exact expiry of the 14 days you should apply for judgement

[intree]

They must have received the Claim this morning I assume, as it was issued yesterday, today we received the following which does not mention the Claim but gives us 7 days to respond to make alternative arrangements,

 

 They have not responded to the Letter before Claim which was sent until today which was 15 days after they were emailed it and a copy sent by recorded delivery.............

 

No they have not filed a Defence but give us 7 days to agree to postpone into 2021 or make other arrangements, there are no arrangements which will be able to allow them to provide a Service to us as the Wedding is no longer being held for 350 people and there will only be a Religious ceremony

 

This week before the reduction in numbers further to 15 from 30, currently.

 

now we are even more distressed as we just dont know what the hell they are up to, My daughter gets married in three days with just a religious Ceremony for 30 persons, and they want to still keep the money, are they real?

 

the letter of Claim was issued on 4 September 2020, they have not responded to this until after the 15 days

 

the letter they have sent today was by email, this was in response to the above dated letter it was not sent by post but by email to my daughter. They have given us 7 days to respond to their request to postpone the venue for a further 6 or 9 months, they state there will be no Refund

 

the claim was issued online yesterday at 11.59 am - via the online service, they have not responded to the claim as issued.