CEL ANPR PCN - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park Denmark Hill Camberwell, London SE5 8RW - Did not leave vehicle

[Carl316]

@yewneik Have just read this thread and it sounds very stressful!

 

I found it because I too have just been issued a ticket via post for this parking lot for £100 - I was wondering if you still had the pictures of the parking signs from the lot?

It sounds like from the above that they are not legitimate, and that the company asking money from you is different than the company stated on the signs?

 

Does anyone know if you have to pay a ticket if you did NOT leave your vehicle? I came to pick up my wife - waited for her for 17 minutes (she got lost..classic) and then left. They have served a parking ticket with a picture of the car (presumably from the camera) entering and leaving the lot and the related timestamps. I don't remember seeing any clear signage.

 

Thanks, and apologies if this is the wrong thread/method - first time poster.

 

Carl

[Carl316]

Hi all

 

I have just been issued a ticket via post for this parking lot for £100

Does anyone know if you have to pay a ticket if you did NOT leave your vehicle?

 

I came to pick up my wife - waited for her for 17 minutes (she got lost..classic) and then left.

 

They have served a parking ticket with a picture of the car (presumably from the camera) entering and leaving the lot and the related timestamps.

I don't remember seeing any clear signage.

 

I have read other related threads about this parking lot that seem to indicate the signage for the lot might not legal.

I am no longer in London so cannot go back and double check the signs myself.

 

Any advice appreciated

 

Carl

 

 

[dx100uk]

not leaving your car does not invalidate the speculative invoice..

however that does not mean to say you must pay.

 

CEL always make mistakes.

 

 

[Carl316]

To clarify the PCN is a PARKING charge notice, so as I understand it this is NOT from the council and from a private company.

 

I have read that "Parking Charge Notices (PCN) are not as easy to enforce as those distributed on public land, due to them not technically being fines, but invoices. The only way parking companies and landowners can enforce them is by taking you to court, which is normally too costly for them." - is this true?

 

I am trying to find out it the company trying to charge me is registered with the British Parking Association (BPA) or International Parking Community (IPC). Does anyone know how to do this?

 

Thanks

Carl

[dx100uk]

makes no odds really.

 

just collect the relevant info like picyures

planning permission etc

 

and wait and see if the eventually issue a letter of claim.

 

don't move without informing them...CEL often wait upto 6yrs to raise a claim hoping for a backdoor CCJ.

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky please? It will help us to advise you.

 

 

Best, HB

 

[Carl316]

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

1 Date of the infringement 14 August 2020
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Issue date is 24/08/2020
 

- attached as single PDF to message

 

3 Date received 26/08/2020
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] NO
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?  Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Civil Enforcement Ltd. (Company Registration NO: 05645677)
 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]  Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park Denmark Hill Camberwell, London SE5 8RW

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA?

 

The bottom of the paper also says "Civil Enforcement Ltd operates in accordance with the Britich Parking Association's Code of Practice"
 

 

 

Uploaded PDF here

ParkingChangeNotice(1)24-08-2020.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

I wouldn't worry overmuch.

 

There have been several cases where motorists have won in Court because they weren't parked despite what the parking crooks would like to think.

 

Also there is another member who has a thread running at the moment who also had a PCN from the same place.

He has found no evidence of them having planning permission to erect their signs and cameras on the site.

 

While it is a common practice among those parking thieves it is also a criminal offence.

And as such it is a major fail for them as it means that without that permission they cannot provide a contract between themselves and motorists.

 

It also means they breached your GDPR by getting your info fom the DVLA.

 

On another note, I couldn't see an address on either of CEL's PCN-did you crop it, or was it never there?

[Carl316]

Interesting.

 

I was following that thread to but I didn’t realize that if there are no permissions for signs/cameras to be hosted on that site that it invalidates the supposed “tickets”v

 

and no the company didn’t provide any address or contact info on the notice that I could see, besides the website address of where to pay the fee..

[lookinforinfo]

With regards to planning permission CEL would need to instal a sign at the entrance pluse several more dotted around the car park as well as asking for their ANPR cameras to be erected too. I saw nothing of that and there are quite a few Morrisons signs in the car park which is what I think they were applying for. And if you look at the length of time it takes for that Council to approve their signs, you can well understand that CEL would not be bothered to wait that belong before ripping off the motorists. 

 

And that is assuming that they got permission straight away. Often the Council comes back and wants to change something on the sign [perhaps the length that motorists can stay] thus taking another couple of weeks at least before possibly granting permission. how can corrupt businesses make money with those sort of delays. Much easier not to apply in the first place.