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CEL ANPR PCN PAPLOC now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park Denmark Hill Camberwell, London SE5 8RW - paid-did not enter Reg No - POPLA rejected appeal


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  • 2 weeks later...

They've already sent their Letter Before Action, and you've already told them where to stick it.

 

Yours is not the next move.  They have to put up or shut up.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 3 months later...

open

 

please complete this:

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks very much indeed dx100uk.

 

Some great information in there, will have a thorough read, but definitely the information I need right now!

 

I'm keen to request the car parks CCTV footage of the day, should I hold off until it's confirmed we're going to court, or is now the right time to request it?

 

Name of the Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited 

 

Claimants Solicitors: S Wilson, Head of Legal

 

Date of issue 26 July 2021 (Received 30th July)

 

Date for AOS - 13th August Will get this sent out on Monday (2nd August)

 

Date to submit Defence - 27th August 

 

What is the claim for 

 

Claim for money relating to a Parking Charge for breach of contract terms/conditions(TCs) for parking in private car park (CP) managed by Claimant. 

Drivers may only park pursuant to TCs of use displayed in CP and agreed upon entry/parking.

 

ANPR cameras or manual patrols monitor vehicles entering/exiting the CP and TC breaches.

 

Charges of GBP182.00 claimed. 
Violation date: 02/07/2020 
Payment due date: 31/07/2020 
Time in: 12:20 Time out: 12:49 


PCN: Vehicle reg mark: Car park:-Butterfly Walk 

 

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

Amount Claimed £197.40

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50 

Total Amount £282.40

 

Thanks for your help through this everyone!

 

 

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL ANPR PCN PAPLOC now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park Denmark Hill Camberwell, London SE5 8RW - paid-did not enter Reg No - POPLA rejected appeal

Doubtful any CCTV exists wasn't this ANPR?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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On 31/07/2021 at 16:38, brassnecked said:

Doubtful any CCTV exists wasn't this ANPR?

ANPR Camera on the way in/out,

 

Then 2 or 3 CCTV cameras in the car park, checked with the Morrisons who do not have access to the footage. All cameras owned and operated by the carpark.

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OOo if CCTV are the PPC  rather than Morrisons registered as data Controller with ICO, if not they could be in the soup.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Well speaking with Morrisons last year, they essentially said all CCTV and transaction data is only kept for a month. On finding out that the PPC owned the CCTV, I thought it would be a good point if going to court that they will obviously have footage of me purchasing a ticket then displaying it in my car.

 

My worry is that they have deleted their footage, but I could also use this as a point, if you were attempting to prove someone didn't purchase a ticket surely they should have retained that footage to show wrongdoing.

 

At the moment I need to know if I should write to the carpark, requesting the footage of the day, under ICO guidelines. It's just going to a problem if they revert to a 'we only hold our CCTV footage on file for 1 month' response.

 

Thanks 

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i would now move away from focussing on any CCTV reliance, it's immaterial.

no or wrong reg claimforms rarely succeed esp with the new gov't guidelines coming in.

 

did you get that CPR running, and AOS done 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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AOS is sorted,

 

Just working through the CPR form letter now. Besides the 3 doc types the template is there anything else worth adding to this request?

 

Realise the CCTV is likely a lost cause, but Is this the place to request it anyway?

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just send the CPR as is.

the CCTV footage of you is not important.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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CPR Sent yesterday,

 

Should I get on writing up defence? Is it best to writ up briefly, focusing on main points of defence, and should I leave factors such as no 'car park rules shown on point of purchase' out for the time being?

 

Cheers

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You use our std bland generic 3-5 defence in just about every pnc thread here already

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thanks dx100uk, Reading through the prior art, am I correct to think these are the points you recommend in the defence. Glad I have a bit of time to get this right, but hope to get it sorted so I can get on with my life.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 

  

3.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

4.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer.  

 

5.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

 

Original point 3 is interesting:

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  

 

But from what I've seen they are licensed to pursue people with PCNs. So assume it's a null point.

 

Also, on my point 3, should I mention that I contend that I did purchase and display a valid ticket, it was the fault of a broken ticket machine (which has since been fixed) that allowed me to purchase a ticket without entering my registration details. This machine also did not have any of their 'contract details' displayed on it. Thus meaning I had no information on said contract at point of purchase, extending to point 2.

 

Thanks all!

 

 

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We suggest to keep the defence as generic and bland as possible.  The reason is that we've had examples of motorists filing long defences full of superb legal arguments - which then gave the fleecers and their solicitors months to think up lies to counter those arguments.  Less is more at this stage.  Don't mention you paid.  Keep the fleecers guessing.

 

If CEL are daft enough to proceed to a court case you'll have ample chance to state your case in detail in a Witness Statement.

 

Just file the generic defence you found.  Include the "original point 3" if you like. 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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don't file early...

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi all, the ball keeps rolling, and unfortunately arrived home to this after a week away, so have a quick turn around to get this back to them.

 

There was also included a mediation info sheet, which I assume you've all seen before. Should I go this route and try to get them to drop it for nothing or just go with the below form?

 

Not entirely sure why it's coming from Northhampton, as I live in London near the car park, also in London. So assume this form is to get the case assigned to London?

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Y

NoticeofProposedAllocation-SCC.pdf

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You really must must must GEt reading the 100's of like PCN claim form threads here between the different stages of the claim, so that you know what's to come and how to react!!

 

STD n180

No to mediation.

1 wit you.

The rest is obv 

 

3 copies.

1 to the court 

1 to their solicitor.(Minus email/Sig/phone)

1 for your file.

 

The claim will then get allocated to your local stated court 

 

Dx

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX, going through now, apologies.

 

C1. Do I state No, that the Claim is unjustified, or state yes?

 

D - Local court to me, obv no experts and only me as witness.

 

Thanks again!

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there are no questions on the n180 concerning is the claim justified. read the questions properly..........

 

i will guess you mean jurisdiction of the court?

 

as i said.... i wit you ... the rest is obv if you read the questions properly.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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