Bought a Clocked & damaged Car

[sallyblackburn]

MiE - I  have replied to MB and copied their UK CEO in to make exactly that point. Thank you

 

In other news, I got MY SAR data from Marshall. This shows 0 communication between Marshall and Creartion which is V odd. I have asked for clarification as to why it is not included. i.e are they claiming some kind of privilige or does it simply not exist!

 

The only interesting SAR nugget is that I forgot that I had refused to sign the handover sheet to say I had seen the mileage statement or had chance to check the car. This is beacuse they couln't find the mileage sheet while we were at the dealership  (because we now know the car is clocked) and that the car could not be inspected because it was dark. I am glad they have sent the sheets as filled in and that they haven't edited them. I think it may help with the claim.

 

Creation are now out if time for the SAR, what should I do please? 

Edited September 21, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

it has been 14 days since the LBA should have arrived to Creation. Both the reply to the LBA and the SAR are both late. I also emailed the LBA to Creation and they have acknowledged it 11 days ago. They acknowledged the SAR too. What should I do please?

[sallyblackburn]

I emailed Creation to confirm they have the LBA yesterday.

 

"I sent you a Letter Before Action over 14 days ago. I can see no reply by post or by email. The next step is for me to issue court proceedings. Unless you confirm that a response to the LBA has been sent by 16:50 tomorrow I will be issuing court proceedings at that time.

 

A copy of this email will be provided to the court in respect of costs."

 

Today I received this.

 

"Thank you for your email, please accept my apologies for the delay in replying.

 

We have received your Letter Before Action and we have no further comment to make at this stage.

 

Kind regards"

 

 

As such I have issued a claim against them for damages for breach of contract and misrepresentation. I cannot quite understand why they would accept getting and LBA and be so blase about ignoring it!

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[BankFodder]

When you send a letter of claim – it gives a certain deadline after which you will take action. At the expiry of the deadline – you take the action you threatened. You don't send them reminders

[sallyblackburn]

I was once involved in a claim where someone denied the LBA was sent and it made the day at court more stressful. Do you think there is a reason they would admit they got it, but decide not to reply?

[BankFodder]

Partly because they don't believe that you will follow through with your threat – and in fact so far they've been proved right

[sallyblackburn]

Well the claim is issued now. I guess if I lose somehow that their failure to follow the rules may help if there are costs arguments.

[BankFodder]

Please will you post up your POC

[Manxman in exile]

As BankFodder said back on page 1, Creation's original response to you was plain nonsense - so perhaps they haven't got a clue what is going on.  Wait to see if they formally acknowledge it and file a defence.  They can't very well say they didn't receive it now!  (I can see Creation might be difficult to deal with.  Are you suing the dealer too?  And have you asked MB UK about the diminished "value" of their approved car scheme?)

 

AS BF says, having sent the LBA you need to commit to it.

 

(several cross-posts while i've typed this)

[sallyblackburn]

re done as a PDF

MARSHALL CREATION Particulars-of-claim-faulty-goods-and-credit-card online.pdf

[sallyblackburn]

On 24/09/2020 at 18:41, Manxman in exile said:

As BankFodder said back on page 1, Creation's original response to you was plain nonsense - so perhaps they haven't got a clue what is going on.  Wait to see if they formally acknowledge it and file a defence.  They can't very well say they didn't receive it now!  (I can see Creation might be difficult to deal with.  Are you suing the dealer too?  And have you asked MB UK about the diminished "value" of their approved car scheme?)

 

I am not suing the dealer. They are very slippery, willing to lie and It is very likely that I am going to have to sue them under the GDP/DPA2018 as they are really messing around with my data. So far they have sent me what they claimed was all the data, and when I challenged them about some documents I know they have, they claimed LPP, then when I said LPP didn't apply they sent those, but they have still failed to disclose a single piece of communication with Creation and there is a distinct lack of internal correspondence on this whole matter.

 

I have just sent the detailed particulars of claim to Creation and the certificate of service N215 and copies of the particulars to the CCBC.

 

With regards to Creation and the LBA, I spoke to a friend who has just bassed the bar exams and who does county court advocacy work as a part time job and he said he can see no reason why someone would acknowledge an LBA but decline to reply. It is clearly a breach of the pre action protocol and if the court decides my claim is without merit it would be easy to argue they shouldn't get costs. He says the standard practice he sees from parties when ignoring a letter is generally to act like they didn't get it and feign surprise, so by acknowledging it Creation have not helped themselves apparently.

Edited September 26, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[BankFodder]

Good luck with the case – we are all following you.

However, there is no breach of pre-action protocol by failing to reply to a letter of claim. I don't know where your friend gets that from. Maybe you'd like to give us the source of that wisdom

[sallyblackburn]

(b) the defendant responding within a reasonable time - 14 days in a straight forward case and no more than 3 months in a very complex one. The reply should include confirmation as to whether the claim is accepted and, if it is not accepted, the reasons why, together with an explanation as to which facts and parts of the claim are disputed and whether the defendant is making a counterclaim as well as providing details of any counterclaim; and

 

The defendant is required to reply to the LBA in a way specified in the Practice Direction apparently.

 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct#6.1

[BankFodder]

Well thank you. That is the second time that you have put me right on a point of procedure.

I still don't think it's going to matter very much to the issue of costs – but I shall be interested to see what happens.

Anyway thank you for the source link. We learn something new every day. Maybe you should be an adviser on this forum!

[sallyblackburn]

He just sent this:

 

https://keoghs.co.uk/keoghs-insight/aware/when-ignorance-is-not-bliss

 

I think the breadth of knowledge I would need to have to be an adviser on this forum is way beyond the very limited fields that I have been reading up on. I really appreciate all the help you've given me. The SAR idea in particular has been a goldmine! 

[sallyblackburn]

BankFodder. I made an SAR to Creation on 24 August and have had an email asking for ID, which I supplied. Since then I have heard nothing, despite chasing it. What should I be doing please? I have 0 idea about this aspect of things.

Edited September 27, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

I have still not had my SAR data from Creation. They have acknowledged the request on 31 August and asked for ID which I sent. Since then despite chasing twice I have heard nothing from them. What should I be doing please?

[BankFodder]

Okay, I hope you don't find this too frustrating – but this thread has been going on for over six weeks and frankly I rather lost track.

Would you mind just summarising the story again – and pull the various bits that we have discovered as we've gone along this thread together into one post.

Try to avoid extensive narrative but let's just have it short and sweet.

If you want you could start a new thread – I understand that at some point during this thread we suddenly discovered that the car had been clocked in addition to the other issues.

As I say, I'm sorry find this frustrating – but the thread has revealed various things as it has proceeded and it would be nice to have a distillation.

 

[sallyblackburn]

 

I have created a new thread, but just to be clear the Mileage issue was laid out in the first post in the thread...

[BankFodder]

Sorry, I think we may have misunderstood each other. You seem to have started a new thread dealing simply with the breach of the SAR rules by Creation.

I had expected you to give us a distillation of the entire case

[sallyblackburn]

1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

Sorry, I think we may have misunderstood each other. You seem to have started a new thread dealing simply with the breach of the SAR rules by Creation.

I had expected you to give us a distillation of the entire case

 

The only live issue right now is re the SAR. The car litigation is awaiting a defence. 

[BankFodder]

Well that shows you how much I've lost contact with the thread.

And presumably you have sued creation.

So at some point it will be useful to add this breach of SAR to the case against creation. I suppose it's rather a shame that the claim has already been issued because then it would have been a simple matter.

Because you have already got something going against creation and it's all a bit complicated anyway, it might be simply best to send creation another letter telling them that they are in breach of statutory duty and making it a formal complaint and in which they are required to provide you with a final response within eight weeks so that you can then go to the ombudsman.

When they eventually file a defence – as they surely will – then you can take a view that I would suggest that maybe on the directions questionnaire, you asked the judge to order them to comply with the SAR dated XXX and in respect of which they are in breach of statutory duty.

I think that might be the easiest way to proceed so far.

Based on their response to your next letter, and also make a complaint to the ICO – although that won't get you anywhere but it should get your reference number which will help

[sallyblackburn]

I sued Creation and served the detailed particulars on them the next day and filed the N215 with the court the same day. I sued them the same day that they told me that they had received, but did not intend to reply to the LBA. 

 

I will make the formal complaint to them and then refer to the ICO. 

 

If they file a defence I will come back here. The failure to reply to the SAR and the failure to reply to the SAR makes me very curious as to what data they have.

Edited October 6, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[BankFodder]

I think it's far more likely that they don't receive many SARs and it has either passed them by or they don't really know what to do with it.

Anyway, it's just more iron to your fire

[sallyblackburn]

The SAR team is part of the parent company BNP Paribas which is a huge worldwide operation. I'm really  curious as to the lack of response, especially when combined with the nonchalant attitude towards the pre action correspondence. Nobody I have spoken to has any idea why they would behave in such a way.