Faulty Dell Laptop - Requesting I wait for Parts **Resolved**

[aj84]

Hi all,

I hope you are all keeping safe and well!

 

I'm here with another Dell query believe it or not. 

In short, after the fiasco with the previous Dell, I purchased the 2020 model and unfortunately found a fault in that where Dell actually did not want to repair but just refund which I accepted.  And I stuck with dell buying an XPS 9500 fully specced.

 

There has been a known trackpad wobble/pre-travel issue which I was well aware but it was luck of the draw according to the numerous people buying it and reporting a yay or nay on various forums so I ordered one after early July knowing Dell formally admit to the issue and stated June on-wards, the fix would be in place.

 

Got it, and issue was there. 

I ordered another arranging a pickup/refund for this one...same fault.

  And I ordered another ...th e same. 

At one point, I had 3 £2500 laptops on my credit card with all 3 awaiting refunds which I got back.

 

Fast forward and one of the original advanced resolution tech support guys got involved again as he did with the last 2 - he and a sales guy did a cracking deal on a Precision 5550.

  This is essentially the business range of the 9500 stating as this is a new build with 3 weeks lead-time, it would >not< have the issue.  Guess what?  It did.

 

After lots of to/from Dell, we agreed a refund is probably now best and I move on... BUT I still wanted the 5550. 

 

I requested another quote from the sales guy for the 5550 for the same price/spec and try one more time.  This time, he said he would not be able to match the quote, reduced warranty to 1 year and added £300 on top which I declined.  Note, the reason I asked for a quote is once purchased or expired, the link no longer works so I could not just re-purchased from the old one he sent.

 

Back to the tech guy-  he offered an on-site repair with the revised palm rest.  Didn't want this but had no choice but to accept as sales would not let me re-order at the same price.  I accepted and this was meant to be this week prior to the 14 day return period.  I get a call on Tuesday to say it has been delayed now until the end of August.

 

Note, I also have it in writing if it is not fixed after the part is installed, or any damage is caused (the fiasco of the last one) or any new issues are introduced, I would get a brand new (not refurb) replacement.

 

Why am I here?

Well clearly I do have MUG written on my head by sticking to Dell but equally I know I cannot get a laptop from any manufacturer with this fantastic screen/ratio/resolution, or performance that I have of the 5550 for any number of pounds.

 

But I have to draw a line somewhere - my 14 days is up tomorrow too so I either keep or return knowing that I will not be able to get anything close to this spec within my budget given this was discounted heavily.

 

Ideally, I just want a replacement hoping that the new one is good and if not, I would maybe attempt to fix it by a number of plaster fixes rather than have it opened by a 3rd party tech so early on.

 

I posed the query and apparently a new one for my spec would only be available in November with the revised part yet the ones already on sale (slightly lower cpu) is supposedly with the revised part and a new build regardless of this issue would usually take 3 weeks to deliver - 

 

IF end of august comes by and still no part

- what are my options once I go past the 14 days given what I am doing is giving them a chance to rectify it?  They are maintaining a refund would NOT be given once I go beyond the 14 day marker - is this legal?

 

Again, I fully appreciate I still have a chance to backout tomorrow but everything else is perfect about this specific laptop or any other 5550 with this spec.  

 

Obviously if it gets fixed then happy days and again if they stuff up, I still get a new replacement.  It's more if the line is drawn by this fixed part being delayed again and again.

 

Sorry for the whole load of text 

 

[BankFodder]

Any chance that you could post your story up again in a bullet pointed chronology but missing out most of the narrative which you have posted and which is frankly getting in the way of understanding your story

[aj84]

Will try!   Following on from researching my next new laptop, noticed an issue many complained about - a wobble/pre-travel touchpad of the XPS 9500 released in May 2020.

 

June 2020- Dell state this is fixed and all new models are no longer going to have this issue

8/7/2020: Order said laptop

10/7: Laptop arrives and instantly note issue, report back to advanced resolution team

Advised, I can return or repair however if either lapses 14 day return period, I cannot return for a refund after this regardless of repair or not

13/7: Laptop picked up from Dell

13/7: New order, same spec created

14/7: Laptop arrives, notice same issue on this one

14/7: Report issue and a return is created

15/7: Laptop picked up

15/7: New order, same laptop, same spec

15/7: Arrives, but same issue

15/7: Start talks with Dell advanced res team to discuss why I can't seem to get a working laptop

15/7: Dell Res and Sales talk and we all agree a brand new custom build of the 5550 is to be created with a heavy discount on price to be as close to the 9500 as possible.  As it's a custom build, trackpad will not have an issue

31/7: 5550 arrives, instantly notice the trackpad issue before even switching on

31/7: Advised this is being escalated and to give them until Monday 3rd.

3/8: Advised revised part is available from the 2nd week of August or a refund can be given.  I suggest another attempt at a new build - 3 weeks build time takes it well past the 1 weeks the revised part is due.

Sales will >not< generate a quote to match the 5550 and instead hikes it up more so only option is refund or repair.

5/8: Advise Dell I will take on repair but caveat with if any issue remains whether related or newly introduced or any damage, I get a brand new (not refurb) 5550.  They agree in writing.

6/8: States this is all in-place however in taking this, I would NOT be eligible for a refund after the 14/8 when the 14 day kicks in.  I agree as by then the part should have been fitted.

10/8: Dell call advising the part is NOT ready and now is scheduled for the end of the month.  States if I don't take the refund and opt for repair (or replacement if something goes wrong post repair), I will not be eligible for refund post repair if something does not go to plan.

 

My query is - At this moment in time, they lapsed the June fix date, they lapsed the 2nd week of August time, if end of August also goes without a revised part, do I have any rights to say lets call it quits despite it being past the 14 day window?

 

A request for a replacement new build has been declined as November is the earliest they can build with the revised part even though they state all laptops on the Dell website under the 9500 and 5550 are the fixed version.  Sales state a new custom build takes 3 weeks but would be with the revised part, Dell Advanced res team disagree and state its only from November.

 

Any easier/clearer?

[BankFodder]

thanks. I'm doing this on a telephone standing on a high street. It's a little bit clearer but I'm still trying to get my head around it.

 

very quickly though, the whole thing is governed by the Consumer rights act and that means that if they can't do a repair within the first 6 months then you're entitled to a refund. That's the basic position.

could you please tell me how much you paid for the laptop originally and what was its value?

[BankFodder]

I'm asking this question because if the value of the laptop is greater than the price you paid for it then in principle you should be entitled to recover the value in other words the larger of the two, the value or the price paid

[aj84]

Very interesting thanks BF

It's paid via Amex credit card (whole amount)

Value was just short of £2600 and the original value would be circa £3600.  This included a number of "offers" which is why apparently Sales cannot re-quote me because they no longer exist this month and this was a 3 years on-site warranty for the price of 2

 

One thing to note, the consumer rights act would be great - does this work even if I purchased it as a consumer but from their business range which initially lists it online as VAT free and the 5550 only comes up under "work" not "home" on their website where the "consumer" version would be the XPS 9500 and Work would be Precision 5550.

 

If I am still covered, I think your previous response about the 6 months covers my question.

[aj84]

Today is my final returns period they are giving me - Spent most of last night trying to find a decent replacement without luck so I think the only choice I have is wait it out for the magical revised part 

[BankFodder]

Yes the Consumer rights act is applicable to you. Don't worry about it as long as you purchased as a consumer.

 

also you are entitled to receive the full value of what you purchased even though that might be more than the purchase price.

 

This means that if the computer you bought was accompanied by offers etc then you will be entitled to recover the full value of the computer and the offers

 

[aj84]

Brilliant thank you as always 

I was going to go back to the advanced res team but I'm going to leave it and wait it out until the end of August when the part is supposedly ready to fit.

 

I think I might be reading your response wrong -  Given the machine is £3600 to buy but Dell discounted it by £1000 (goodwill etc) and added the July offer of warranty (3 for the price of 2), if by the end of August they decide there is yet another delay and I in turn decide enough, I would get £3600 back?  That does not read right as much as I want it to

 

They just need to hurry up and get their finger out to resolve this issue - I still see so many threads of people suffering with the same issue

[BankFodder]

The way it works is that you made a contract for a certainitem and you are entitled to have the item or it's full value so that you could go elsewhere and buy it from another supplier.

 

Of course dell wouldn't be happy about this and to enforce this right you would probably have to go to court

[aj84]

Excellent - Sometimes the law is great

 

Out of interest, what constitutes "purchased as a consumer" ?

Either way, it's not purchased by work, and I'm not buying it using a vat number, claiming it, raising a PO against it or whatever else a business would do so I'm sure its fine.

 

[BankFodder]

If you didn't buy it it for use in your trade or profession or mainly not for that use

[aj84]

Just wanted to update the thread with the latest

As promised, Dell did send an engineer over today with a revised part.  This was fitted and signed off by me in regards to the touchpad and nothing else.  The Dell internal tests passed and the engineer was on his way.

Minutes after he left, I noticed a gap in the chassis ...and another...and then another.

The LED in the front was not uniform and worse than before.

Backspace key does not work unless pressed harder or in the middle

Left speaker crackles and rattles.

 

So yes the trackpad issue is indeed fixed but a whole load of issues introduced and this was my biggest fear having had the exact same issue with a previous Dell - only that one was sent into Dell as opposed to an on-site repair.

 

I have reported this back and to be fair, there was no leg to stand on as everything was recorded on cctv including checking the machine after he left.  Unfortunately some of the issues were not obvious while he was here such as the backspace key...I tested all the letters and numbers but not every key for example but equally this was not part of sign-off (I have a copy).

 

Dell have been very apologetic and have offered remedial by what was originally promised - a replacement like for like spec machine but new and with the revised part from factory.  OR I can have a refund.

I'm still not keen on the refund due to nothing similar being out there but they have stated if I go for a replacement and it is faulty, there is no refund option or replacement option...only a repair.

Exact wording is:

• Dell is happy to replace the system as promised before once the stock arrives around or between September-October 2020.
• Alternatively, you can go for a full refund now by returning the system, the refund option cannot be extended any further as the system is already out of its return period.(we can have the option open until end of next week and not beyond).

 

So a bit of thinking to do now - on one hand, I cannot get a similar spec machine because it does not exist.  On the other, how much more bad luck can I have with Dell!?

 

[aj84]

Hi again,

Could I confirm something please - if the replacement which is apparently due between sep and october turns out to be faulty, can I reject for a full refund as far as basic law is concerned or would I need to go through court to obtain this?

They are quite firm in saying the refund option as it stands expires next Friday and if the next machine is faulty, only a repair is possible.

Feel slightly backed into a corner right now and just wish I could take the refund right now knowing I can get something same/better but this is not the case however in 2 months time if the replacement is bad, there is a possibility other brands do catch-up and there is something more functional available.

[BankFodder]

I would say that a replacement comes with all of the rights which accompanied the first computer. However, because you will be more than 30 days since you bought the original computer in May – but within the six months timescale set in the consumer rights act, you would in principle have to give them a single opportunity to carry out a repair after which you could certainly insist on a refund.

On the other hand, if a defect emerges which is so substantial that it really deprives you of the computer completely – then you could revert to the ordinary common law principles and say that they had terminated the contract by their breach and you could then insist on a refund.

I don't expect that they would acquiesce very easily and I expect would you would have to take court action – although if you issue the papers, they are such a huge company – and there are clearly so many problems which have been caused by them, I can imagine that they would put their hands up

[aj84]

Thanks again - I thought this would be the answer.

 

I wonder if another option is to exercise their 14 day return period and keep purchasing the consumer version, using it for 12 days, purchase another, return the first and keep doing that until I get the actual replacement.

That way, I am not without a system for 3 months while they faff about getting the new one ready.

 

They have said this is fine to keep until the new one arrives - it's whether I can make it work for me day to day or will the backspace key for instance be enough to drive me up the wall.  Maybe it might make me a more accurate typist who knows...just writing this reply was annoying enough :- )

[BankFodder]

I think that overall the delay that they are proposing is completely unreasonable and you are not obliged to accept it. However they have offered a refund and maybe would be better off taking that. On the other hand, if it is simply a refund of the money that you have paid against a discounted price so that you are not receiving the full value of your computer that I think that you have grounds for complaint.

I have to say it sounds a real nuisance having to order a laptop, get it completely installed to your own requirements and then having to return it and start again.

[aj84]

Oh I agree!  They always have an answer for everything - I questioned a while back why it is quicker to get a new laptop from a new order than technical issuing a new laptop and the answer was I am more likely to get a working no-fault machine via technical.  Says enough for all those customers buying from the site.

 

The refund is what I paid and not the full current value of the 5550 as it stands which is £1000 more than I paid - Let me raise this with Dell and see what their response is because scrolling up, you do clearly state the contract is on the item purchased not the price paid.

 

The order/install/wipe/start again is fine by me however and can do it with my eyes closed.  Probably is a waste of an hour or so and then the rest of the work is automated overnight such as syncing files from my nas box, updates etc - As long as I don't find myself banned for abusing the system.  I am reading some in the states were on their 8th machine of buying/returning before a good one popped out so maybe not

[BankFodder]

I'm giving you my view on my understanding of contractual principles. If you make a contract for a laptop which is worth £10,000 – and you are paying £8000, then you are entitled to expect that you will walk away with a value of £10,000 in your pocket.

If they breach the contract then you are entitled to the value expected to have – not the item.

If you made a good bargain then that's good for you and the law will not help Dell simply because they made a bad bargain.

However, you would have to put this to a judge and the judge would have to agree

[aj84]

Thanks - this makes it clear although it does sound like a lot of effort at the same time assuming it went that far (but well worth it for £1k!)

 

I wrote to the technical contact managing the case and he rang me (recorded of course) back - my concerns were essentially the time not being acceptable, the fact the only reason I am out of my refund period whether now or after the replacement is that it is taking Dell 3 weeks to fix it in the first place and then now another x months to replace - in both accounts out of my hands and solely Dell to blame.

 

Also stated I have 0 trust in Dell QC so not allowing a refund option is again unacceptable and my preferred option is to replace with a refund option if any faults are evident - if not, of course I am happy to keep.

 

The timescales have now changed on the back of this email to end of September - possibly in the next 3 weeks probably because I raised the fact a new build can be here by the 17th via their website - acceptable.

Advised me not to order a "temp" 9500 until the 5550 arrives and if needed, he would send a service out for this one as a temp measure - I declined this as I don't have time to babysit them.  I may still get it if it hinders my day to day.

 

As for QC, he is personally keeping tabs on it and will be communicating with the relevant teams whatever that is worth.

Finally the refund query was ignored the 3 times I raised it on the call + email but did point out this is a consumer purchase for a consumer person so consumer regs/rules/laws are applicable so I think he understood.

 

Also considered potentially going through a number of 9500 orders until one arrived good but was advised by others + experience the precision costs more for a reason and thats better build quality and longevity + the pro support is far better than the consumer level premium support so I am not opting for a refund.

 

Will keep you updated and also the nature of my responses treats this thread as a memory dump too although everything is on email and / or recordings.  Luckily one thing Dell seems to do is summarise phone calls on emails.

[aj84]

Another update - we are now back to October resolution.  I got a call yesterday from the Advanced Resolution Services team (ARS) to say "Our backend team confirmed that the unaffected parts for your system would be stock in the Dell factory around October 2020."

I did ask whether we are talking beginning of October....end ... when and the answer was that it would be end of Sep into Early (first week to 2 weeks) of October.

 

I then reiterated in that case I will be purchasing a laptop every 2 weeks and returning it every 2 weeks until this is resolved- having setup an image, I can "recover" within 30 minutes each time I get a new laptop as this is functionally unusable.

This resulted in him offering various accessories to help with the pain of the keyboard and to avoid ordering which I have accepted in the interim.

 

As of now:

1. They cannot guarantee the parts on builds via the website are good even though they will continue to sell them

2. They cannot guarantee a new built initiated right now will have the fixed part which is why they are delaying sending the build to them

 

Who would think this is a company the size of Dell eh?

[aj84]

Another update as I had those threads that just have OPs go AWOL!

 

As it stands, I sent them an email today requesting an update as next week is the final week of September and into the start of October.  The email I got back was:

"As discussed before, we will get a certain update within one month from now at the maximum, like we arranged service on your other system"

 

We did not discuss this at all - the last communication was the 2nd of September where Dell sent me a Dell Dock to get around using the now faulty keyboard on the laptop along with trackpad and instead, use an external keyboard and mouse.  This does mean the laptop is now essentially a desktop because I can't exactly lug around a dock, power supply for it, keyboard, mouse and laptop everywhere I go.

 

I just emailed back stating this is not acceptable if we're just going to keep adding a month every month.  Apparently last month management were asking the contact I have why the ticket was ongoing for so long and they were reassured it was moving on but I asked for it to be escalated today and if this fails, we can go ahead with taking it to court which I am now fully prepared given the huge amount of time and stress it has taken.

 

Got a call just now and he states the month is a "maximum" time but if the part is available tomorrow, he will place the order tomorrow, if its next week, its next week.  Naturally I asked why he does not know this and the response was by the end of the day, he will have a date for me.

 

Will update when I have a reply today - with a little one due next month, I really do not need this to drag its heels any longer especially in the current climate

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

aj84 - I've only skimmed through this so will have missed some detail, but why are you persisting with this?  Your experience with this purchase (and previous purchases?) simply seems to confirm that Dell are incompetent.  I appreciate that you seem to think you are getting a good deal on the machine, but how far are you willing to pursue this?

 

Also (and I'm not sure if anybody else has directly addressed this) but what did Dell mean by:  "Advised, I can return or repair however if either lapses 14 day return period, I cannot return for a refund after this regardless of repair or not." (post #3)?

 

Were they (and are they still) under the impression that you are a business customer and not a consumer?  If you are a consumer and the machine manifests a fault within the first six months, you can get a refund (or at least that's how I understand it - I may be mistaken).  What are Dell talking about?

 

[eg - your question #3: "My query is - At this moment in time, they lapsed the June fix date, they lapsed the 2nd week of August time, if end of August also goes without a revised part, do I have any rights to say lets call it quits despite it being past the 14 day window?"

 

And BF response #4:  "...very quickly though, the whole thing is governed by the Consumer rights act and that means that if they can't do a repair within the first 6 months then you're entitled to a refund. That's the basic position."

 

Can't you call it a day and get your money back and buy a machine from someone else?  But if you want to stick with Dell, that's your choice..."]

[aj84]

Hi and thanks for your reply.

I ask myself this every day at the moment but it really is essentially due to not being able to find this spec or even close for the money.  I work in laptop/phone repairs and one thing I do know is even if I looked at another brand such as Lenovo which is the closest to this one, the Dell is made a lot better and with much more reparability options.  More Lenovos are written off vs Dells for instance due to logic board failures.  And that really is the bottom line that anything/where else I would be taking a serious drop in spec or a serious (£1000+ ) increase in cost.

 

Since the last update, he did get back to me with more bad news that apparently they are still receiving returns with the same issue and so it would be another month before they know whether the right parts are in stock to build a new one for me.  Or they have given me "as exception" an option for a refund.

 

I have once again given them the option of letting me buy another one of these and if this is good, they simply refund me the new price (much higher than I paid for at around £700 currently) and take the old one back.  If not, I can try one more purchase and by then, if its still bad, we are in their 1 month wait timeline and a final decision maybe for a refund can be made then.

 

As for consumer vs business - unsure.  But I have asked Dell live chat if a consumer can purchase a Precision for personal use and they said yes, they just put my name in the company field instead of a company and this is what was done looking at my invoice for the system. 

 

The reason I push this is almost everyone I know who had the issue (via another forum) and this was around 30-40 threads maybe? have now got a replacement laptop with the revised part and less and less are now complaining about their new purchase being faulty which clearly suggests new sales seem to be good but technical keep going through the same delayed route.

 

Hopefully this answers your queries - I honestly think if there is an equal or better option, I would have taken it by now and I'm only loyal and patient to a point!

 

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

I think that either Dell think you are a business or they don't understand consumer law.  (And/or they are perhaps being disingenuous.)

 

Only you can decide if that machine is worth all the hassle.