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Small Claims - Used Car return for refund questions **Refunded**


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Hi All

I've just a couple of questions regarding the small claims process and what you think my best way forward is.

 

During the lockdown I purchased a used car from a dealership. I paid via a bank transfer and made some other mistakes too. During test drive there was a fault on the car, the dealership owner said this was due to low battery which he said would have depleted during lockdown and a good run-up/drive would correct it. He also told me other things that were used an excuse due to lockdown, that i would receive the service book in to post at a later date as the trader they sourced it through would send it to them and forward to me, they also said that they changed the cam belt and they would also forward the receipt of that to me too.

 

I bought the car and drove it away. The errors appeared on the dash as I drove home and so i rang them, again they said the car just needed a run up. Two days later i went back to them with the car, their mechanic looked at the car and determined that the fault was due to the air compressor for the suspension. The dealership owner said, " Don't worry we will fix it after lockdown ends when our suppliers open again".

 

I waited during this period and got further errors, not just suspension but parking brake faults and transmission too. I sent photos via text to the dealership over with notes of all the errors. He said via text they all related to the air compressor and not to worry about it and continue using the car in the mean time. 

 

Then the parking brake died completely (clearly nothing to do with airbag compressor on the Park Brake Error)

 

I called the dealership NO ANSWER

Text the Owner NO ANSWER

Messaged the dealership via Autotrader NO ANSWER

 

I tried to contact them many times via these methods for weeks but got no answer.

 

I did not receive the car paperwork, NO SERVICE LOG BOOK, NO RECEIPT OF CAMBELT CHANGE.

 

I send them letters -  Letter 1, asked for a repair or refund under the consumer rights act and a list of the issues, Letter 2, asking again for a refund or a repair with the service book delivered to me and receipt of cam belt change, Letter 3 suggesting alternative dispute resolution and final warning before i press for small claims. ALL LETTERS SENT RECORDED, RECEIVED AND NO RESPONSE.

 

 

 

Feeling completely scammed by this dealership i would like for the car to be returned to them for a full refund as the repair work of Air Compressor, Park Brake Actuator and CAM Belt would likely to cost over £2000, that's not forgetting the car currently has ZERO service history which must deplete its value massively for any future resale. I just dont trust them to do these things, especially now that they wont respond to me but looking on Autotrader they are clearly still trading.

 

I atleast have a text from the owner saying he would do the repairs from the week i purchased it!

 

So in two days it looks like i will be applying through the small claims court but i must say i am scared that this dealership will not be playing ball and it could be a struggle. I've found reviews for them online with very similar occurrences including, selling faulty cars, blocking buyers phone numbers etc.

 

What do you think my chances are of winning this refund? I cant trust them now to offer to fix the car. 

 

When i make the claim online do i just ask for the price it cost me? If i win do the fees get automatically given back to me?

 

The car cost me £8000 so it looks like it will cost me £400

 

Should i suck up that i will have to keep the car, get a quote for the repairs and just apply for recouping those costs?

 

What happens if i go for the full refund and during the court process the car brakes down completely? I need to use this car right now as i don't have another so i would have to get it fixed. Would i be able to get it fixed and add that cost to my claim?

 

I'm sorry, i know this is long and yes i know I am a prat for being so trusting. I think due to the COVID circumstances, anything seemed feasible.

 

Thanks for reading 

 

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I'm looking at your extremely long post on a telephone so it's rather difficult.

 

However, on what I understand your chances of success in a county court are excellent.

you have done exactly the right thing by sending them a letter which cites your rights under the Consumer rights act.

 

 

I am not sure if you have mentioned the name of the dealer. Please do so. The only problem will be that once you have won whether it is possible to enforce the judgement. Is this a well-established dealer with solid premises and stock on site?

 

the fact that they have stopped responding to you is troubling and suggests that they are rather evasive and slippery.

 

 

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The dealer is called Carwise in Epping. It's not the most established of premises. When i was there i'd say there was about 10-15 cars inside and an office. I've seen these reviews of them which seem to replicate my experience. https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealership/hr-autos-epping-essex-england (note previous name).

It's quite worrying.

 

 

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Really you are going to have to make your own judgement as to what to do.

 

however if you do bring the Action then you will undoubtedly win.

t is inconceivable that you could be defeated on this.

 

the problem of course will be in enforcing the judgement and if you do win then I would have the judgement transferred up to the High Court for a very vigorous enforcement by the High Court enforcement officers which would cost you only £66 but which will cost the other side at least a couple of grand assuming the enforcement succeeds.

If the enforcement doesn't succeed then you won't incur any further losses although of course you would have lost your claim fee.

 

Apart from the fact that you paid by bank transfer and were gullible enough to accept all the assurances of the dealer, you have done all the right things in terms of writing to them to assert your rights.

 

I think you now need to make your decision as to whether or not to bring the claim. If you decide that you will then we will help you.

 

If you decide to sue them then the next step is to send them a letter of claim, to read around on this forum about how to bring a claim, to register with the county court moneyclaim website and then issue the claim on day 15.

 

Don't bother to bluff. it won't get you anywhere as you probably now realise.

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Thank you very much for the swift replies. If the car breaks down during this process, what happens if I have to fix it? The MOT is due in September and no doubt these issues will come to light then too. If i make the repairs can i claim those costs back?

 

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I would suggest that you put it in for the MOT straightaway. Why wait?

Then you will have an even better picture of what the defects are.

 

However, if it was advertised with a service history and you haven't had one then this will add great strength to your argument that you should have a refund.

 

if there is no service history then there is no way that they will be able to satisfy the requirement that they are giving a single opportunity to repair.

 

Put it in for the MOT and then write them a letter telling them that you are giving them a single opportunity to carry out all the repairs and also to provide you with the service history and if they will not do this within 14 days then you will see them without any further notice.

 

My advice is but if they they suggest that they will carry out the repairs but do not provide you with the service history first then I would refuse to go ahead with it.

 

they might easily say that they are going to do repairs and ask for the car back and then eventually provide you with the vehicle with repairs done to an uncertain standard but no service history.

 

The service history is merely a piece of paper and they should be able to provide that to you without any delay at all.

 

The service history should be be the nonnegotiable condition for continuing with any further discussion of repairs.

 

be well aware though that enforcement of the judgement may be very tricky.

 

if you begin a claim then make sure that you are very careful about using the correct name for the business.

 

Double check the invoice that you received, the name of the company that you sent the money to to an any other ways that you have of identifying the business.

sometimes these companies trade under different names and you tried to sue them and then they say that they don't exist or that you have sued the wrong name etc.

 

 

 

 

if you start drafting a particulars of claim then post it up here so we can check it. It should be as brief as possible containing the bare facts and nothing else

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I've checked online and they are registered at this address - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11643142

Named as Car Wise (LONDON) Limited , Director is Raymond Walker.

 

The invoice has Carwise written at the top and i purchased it from their showroom/Unit at a different address, listed here - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/dealers/essex/epping/carwise-10018125

 

I transferred payment to Raymond Walker.

 

Which address should i use?

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I would serve the claim using :-

Registered office address Unit 6, Bassett Business Units Hurricane Way, North Weald, Epping, England, CM16 6AA
 
You can confirm the above address in your LBA before issuing.
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I'm becoming more and more put off by the situation.

 

From my searches today online it seems the dealer has more than one surname.

 

He's known as Raymond Walker on here - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11643142/filing-history My money transfer via Natwest went to Raymond Walker

 

On the facebook Car Wise page he is known as Ray Burling https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=774109567

 

Also, am i right in thinking that enforcement wont get me more than £5000.

 

If that's the case should pay for the repairs myself and then claim for those to the small claims court?

This way would also ensure i keep the car on the road to get me to work.

 

I would just have to accept the fact that the car would not have any service history.

The small claims fee would be lower too.

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small claims is £10k now

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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A revelation at the 11th hour (day before my stated date of action) I have just heard back from Car Dealer. 

He has said he has had a family crisis that he has just gotten over. He said he will replace the compressor but when i ask for proof of the cam-belt or the service history he is avoiding those questions. He just keeps saying the compressor (basically the cheaper fix).

I have responded to him based on my online research today. Firstly, i have found the Carwise facebook page which has been updated weekly with car sales. Also, someone on a car forum has reached out to me and said that they test drove the car before me and rejected it due to the faults. So the seller knew about the faults but acted as though it was a surprise when i highlighted them to him. His stories of it being an issue with the battery being low were clearly lies.

 

Here is the conversation via text this afternooon- 

 

Carwise

Sorry for the delay Matthew
Had a family crisis and just getting over it
I'll get the air compressor for the suspension ordered and let you know when it's in.
Can you send me the registration number please so I've got it to hand as I'm not at the showroom
Thanks
Ray

 

Me

 

Ah Ray I've been spitting feathers recently over all of this. The park brake is inoperable,  I have had  Park Brake errors since i got the car from you (which I sent you pictures of). I've also not had the service book sent to me which you said I would get and ive had no receipt for the cam-belt which you said you had replaced. I need this all corrected or i'll be hugely out of pocket.
I am sorry to hear about your crisis but someone at Carwise could have dealt with all of this.
Matt

 

Carwise - 

 

Sorry Matt but no one is there at the moment due to furlough !!!.
So I'll have to deal with it best I can.
Can you send me registration number so I can call through to get a pump
Also send me chassis number so all coresponds with the right pump.
As soon as I've got that in I can then get the car booked in and you bring it down

 

Me - 

Yeah ok ill get you those but what about the other issues I speak of? Also, you must think I'm stupid. Since 20th June you have gone from 26 cars down to 16 on autotrader plus you have been adding new ones to Facebook too and speaking of refurbish your office!!! Whats that all about? 

 

Carwise - 

Well get the other issues sorted out whilst it's in have the pump done.

There are other people that work from the showroom selling there own cars as well as me.

 

 

 

Seeing as he has contacted me at the last minute makes me think he doesn't want me pushing for small claims but he is avoiding my request for the service history and the proof he did them cam-belt. He has clearly lied to me about his business being closed down and he clearly lied at the point of purchase regarding the faults.

 

Because of all of this i would like to request a full refund. He is not reassuring me of what i need and i have plenty of reason not to trust him.

I would like to send him one last letter giving him one week to arrange issuing me a full refund. What do you think? 

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Try not to get personal...difficult I know but you must keep this business like...give him a further 10 days then issue your letter before claim.

Dont worry about the name variations as you will be issuing a claim against the Ltd Company...not the individual ...unless hes trading as/

 

Andy

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Andy. I'm remaining cool and I'm relieved he has finally contacted me. That can only be a good thing but I'm very wary of his lies so far.

 

Edited by matt4p
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Hi Sorry but i am still stuck on where to go next in all of this.

 

This week the dealer contacted me at the 11th hour to talk repair of my car. He seemed only interested in the repair in speaking of just one of the problems  and i was struggling to get him to commit to the other fixes required. I asked him about the service history log and the proof that he had changed the cam belt.

 

He has told me that he will chase the service log book through his accountant. (I'm confused why through his accountant) and that his mechanic would provide the paperwork for the cambelt work, although he is away until September. (I dont believe any of this. He has had months to do this)

 

Back in June he said in a text to me that he would get my car fixed once his supplier opened for business from the 4th July and arrange a date with me. From that date onwards i was unable to contact him. He didn't answer his phones or reply to my texts or answer machine messages. He has told me now that his business was closed during that time. 

 

I asked him about the 3 recorded messages i had sent him that were signed for. He said that he has not seen any letters. Somehow though he has sold 10 cars throughout May, June and July. I have been watching his stock level on Autotrader and he has been advertising his new stock and his sales on facebook throughout this period. Also he has chosen to contact me this week on the night before i was stating i would take action.

 

Frustratingly i expressed my desire to return the car to him for a refund and he has told me that because i didn't reject the car in the first 30 days then that wont happen. How could i reject the car if his business was apparently closed, we was not responding to me other than initially putting off any attempt at repair work.

 

I am feeling completely cheated by this man. He has even accused me of purchasing a car from him that i knew was faulty!! 

 

I have shared my story recently on a Land Rover forum and interestingly a member of the forum has come forward and told me that he had also test drove the car before i did. He said the car displayed the errors i am experiencing and that the dealer had acted suspiciously. This forum member has offered to write me a statement if its of any use?

 

September the car is due an MOT and it is likely to fail because of the work he has not done.

If i take this matter to court and it takes 6 months then what do i do if the car fails the MOT or the faults cause the car to brake down? I need this car for travelling to work and back.

 

Is it a viable option for me to get the car fixed myself and then claim that cost at court? I need a working car and i do not trust this dealer. He is clearly telling lies and i dont trust him completing the work to a satisfactory level if at all. Im assuming he is wanting to wait for HIS MECHANIC to get back from his holiday too. Strange time to be away for several weeks.

 

If i was to get my garage to do the repairs i could also ask them to confirm if the cambelt was ever changed. I'm convinced it wasn't.

 

Please advise. I am incredibly stressed out.

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Get the statement which you have been offered.  It will be extremely important to your case.

 

I would suggest that you write to him and tell him that only a full refund will be acceptable and that you are extending your deadline by a further 5 days after which you will issue the claim without further discussion.

 

I agree that you are in a bind about needing a car etc.

 

If you fell that you would be better served by getting it repaired and suing for those costs then that is certainly an option.  In that case get 2 quotes for the work and send then to him and tell him that you are going to put the work in hand in 5 days and that you will be suing him for the cost.

 

However, don't forget that you will still be saddled with the vehicle and if there are further problems in the future you will still be faced with the same issues with this dealer.

 

You would be much better off making a clean break and suing for the refund.

 

Whatever, get the statement - post a copy here.

 

 

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Thank You Bankfodder. What do you mean by the statement I have been offered?

 

I really eish i could make it a clean break and return the car as I want this to end and I dont really want a car without service history but I feel I am stuck in a hard place. The MOT is due next month and the warnings on the car are becoming more frequent. Either way I'm sure i will end up having to fix it.

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will you are the one who told us you were offered a statement by somebody so you should know what statement I'm talking about.

i certainly agree that you should make the clean break. I think anything else and you are are getting into a load of trouble with no end to it.

also I think that you should get an MOT straight away so that you can understand the full extent of the problem. A detailed MOT fail certificate will help you a great deal in court

 

get the statement. If you can't work out which statement then read what you have written previously

 

 

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Ok sorry. Got you load and clear. Yes I will get the statement in the next few days to post here. Threw me there as I didn't think it could be that useful but I will use it. I'm still concerned though as to what would happen if the car broke later down the line during the court process. Would me having paid to fix the car mean that if I win and give the car back to them, they then benefit from me paying out to fix it or could I claim the repair on top of the £8000 I paid for the car if I had no choice but to fix it?

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In theory you could certainly claim for the value of the improvement but it gets complicated.  You must certainly give notice of any work to be carried out and best to get two quotes.

 

Lots of time-consuming stuff

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  • 1 month later...

I would like to state that Matthew was fully refunded for his vehicle and all of the comments he has made on this forum are totally unjust and also illegal where he signed a NDA not to slander our company or the Director - Matthew you are in breach of both!

 

It is always nice to read when a keyboard warrior starts to sabotage your business and then has the audacity to walk into your premises to receive a full 100% refund of a vehicle and doesn't then update all his comments that he was reimbursed for his vehicle!

 

See you in Court Matthew! 

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18 minutes ago, CARWISEUK said:

I would like to state that Matthew was fully refunded for his vehicle and all of the comments he has made on this forum are totally unjust and also illegal where he signed a NDA not to slander our company or the Director - Matthew you are in breach of both! It is always nice to read when a keyboard warrior starts to sabotage your business and then has the audacity to walk into your premises to receive a full 100% refund of a vehicle and doesn't then update all his comments that he was reimbursed for his vehicle! See you in Court Matthew! 

I removed my reviews as agreed. I signed your non-disclosure to receive my refund. I have not made any more reviews.

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21 minutes ago, CARWISEUK said:

I would like to state that Matthew was fully refunded for his vehicle and all of the comments he has made on this forum are totally unjust and also illegal where he signed a NDA not to slander our company or the Director - Matthew you are in breach of both! It is always nice to read when a keyboard warrior starts to sabotage your business and then has the audacity to walk into your premises to receive a full 100% refund of a vehicle and doesn't then update all his comments that he was reimbursed for his vehicle! See you in Court Matthew! 

 

Thanks for this input. Of course a slander/libel is an untrue statement

Please could you identify the statements which have been made and which you believe to be untrue and we can decide whether or not they should they removed from this thread.

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And @matt4p  it would have been helpful if you had let us know that you had received a refund. Regardless of the truth or otherwise of the story you have given us – and I have no reason to disbelieve it – it would have been fair to the garage and to us to let us know that there had been a settlement

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  • BankFodder changed the title to Small Claims - Used Car return for refund questions **Refunded**

Fair comment @BankFodder 

 

To be honest finally getting the refund was a huge relief and I chose just forget what had happened and move forward. I assumed this post would just disappear due to non activity.

 

I didn't see this post as a public review of the company, I just wanted advice and i have been completely honest in the information i have provided.

 

All that i have stated can be backed up with my phone records and text messages.

 

Carwise offered me a full refund and then withdrew it when they saw my reviews online. I agreed to remove the reviews and sign a NDA to get my refund.

 

Since then I have moved away from the experience with the understanding I have removed the two negative reviews I put online regarding my experience.

 

Saying that I would actually like for this post to now be removed.

I don't want any more hassle.

 

Thank you again for your advice and apologies for not updating you. 

Matt

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