Amyburrage v Barclays

[Amyburrage]

Please can someone talk to me and help me work out what the next best step for me would be? I've written to Barclays and asked for 1,642.06 back and they wrote offering me 540! I am planning to say thanks but no thanks and have got a letter from the library but do not know what to do next in respect of court etc. Please can someone help???!!!!

[cheddar]

Please have a read of the FAQs and the Step by Step guide contained therein, I do'nt know what letters you have sent so far but if you do some reading and then start your own thread in the Barclays section you will be able to keep track and if after reading and searching around you're still stuck post a question on your personal thread to get help.

[TANZARELLI]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

 

If you have sent a prelim letter and they have made you an offer, you can agree to it being a partial settlement but on the condition that you will be seeking to claim for the remaining balance. Stick to your deadline and send a letter before action which they will prob ignore. When deadline is up you then will need to go to www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and file your claim online.

 

All you need to do is to calculate your interest at 8% using the spreadsheet in the library section of this site, then fill in you Particulars of Claim (again a template is in the library section). You will have to pay the fee which you can claim back from Barclays. They will prob acknowledge your claim and say they are going to defend it.You will then have your case transferred to a local court. Barclays will then prob submit a standard defence, and you will have to complete an Allocation Questionnaire which will prob cost you £100 unles you are in receipt of certain benefits. They will also have to complete one too. Then you should be given a date for a hearing. 14 days prior to the hearing date you will have to provide the courts with all yur documents including statements, letters to and from the bank and also the info which you can find in the Court Bundle in the library section.

 

I have just had a settlement offer of £1950.73 which is about £142.91 short but I will be phoning them tomorrow to negoitiate this, and my court date is not until 15th Dec.

 

Start your own thread in the relevant Bank forum and you will get all the help you need from just posting questions.

 

Keep it up you will win in the end.

 

Tanzarelli:)

[Amyburrage]

Would someone please kindly offer me some assistance at this new stage in my claim. I have attached the information which I sent Barclays on the 10 November 06. They wrote back 2 letters saying "We'll write to you soon.....bla bla bla" The second saying "Heres £520.00 as a gesture of goodwill but without any acceptance of liability. Accept this as full and final settlement....bla bla bla". I wrote back saying "Thanks but no thanks but i'll accept your £520 as part-payment and if you don't pay me the rest I will be taking you to a small claims court...etc etc".

 

I then had a response today which says this.

 

"Sorry you remain unhappy...bla bla bla...

 

I can confirm our offer of £520 was as an offer of full and final settlement and are not willing to offer this as part-payment but again as full and final settlement as a gesture of goodwill. We regret we cannot increase it...bla bla bla...

 

Should you wish to accept this as full and final payment please fill out acceptance form previously sent. If not then there is nothing we can do...bla bla bla...

 

I appreciate this is not the answer you were hoping for but basically tough!..."

 

My questions are:

1) Do I need to accept this offer? (I really don't think I should but just need someone else to say it to give me reassurance that I'm making the right decision!)

2) Would you be able to look at the info below which is the spreadsheet I sent them with a breakdown of all the charges I have paid which I think are unlawful. Have I included things which I cannot get back? Interest charged and Account fees for instance? I am getting really confused with this 8% interest charged thing and the interest charged previously which I am trying to claim back. I have had another £8ish interest charged since I started my claim which I realise is nothing in comparison to £1600 but being a single mum on benefits and knowing how skint I have been and still am, every penny really does count for me!

 

If someone can let me have some sensible no jargon answers I'd really appreciate it!

 

I've just previewed this post and realise what i've done but I can't seem to be able to get it copied into a table or anything as this facility doesn't seem to be on this website. Sorry its a bit chaotic but didn't know what else to do!

 

 

Bank Charges

DateDetailsAmountDateDetailsAmount06 November 2001Unpaids out£25.0003 November 2003Account Fee£7.5006 November 2001Interest Charged£0.6001 December 2003Account Fee£7.5018 July 2002Paid referral fee£20.0002 January 2004Account Fee£7.5007 August 2002Stopped cheques£10.0002 February 2004Account Fee£7.5022 August 2002Interest Charged£7.0501 March 2004Account Fee£7.5003 September 2002Paid referral fee£20.0001 April 2004Account Fee£7.5023 September 2002Interest Charged£8.8904 May 2004Account Fee£7.5022 October 2002Interest Charged£8.6101 June 2004Account Fee£7.5022 November 2002Interest Charged£7.9001 July 2004Account Fee£7.5004 December 2002Paid referral fee£20.0002 August 2004Account Fee£7.5006 December 2002Unpaids out£30.0001 September 2004Account Fee£9.5023 December 2002Interest Charged£7.0201 October 2004Account Fee£9.5006 January 2003Unpaids out£30.0001 November 2004Account Fee£9.5022 January 2003Interest Charged£7.8301 December 2004Account Fee£9.5024 February 2003Interest Charged£7.3404 January 2005Account Fee£9.5003 March 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 February 2005Account Fee£9.5012 March 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 March 2005Account Fee£9.5019 March 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 April 2005Account Fee£9.5024 March 2003Interest Charged£7.5803 May 2005Account Fee£9.5022 April 2003Interest Charged£9.0801 June 2005Account Fee£9.5022 May 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 July 2005Account Fee£9.5028 May 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 August 2005Account Fee£9.5002 July 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 September 2005Account Fee£9.5008 July 2003Paid referral fee£20.0003 October 2005Account Fee£9.5022 July 2003Interest Charged£7.0501 November 2005Account Fee£9.5022 August 2003Interest Charged£9.5001 December 2005Account Fee£9.5022 September 2003Interest Charged£8.3403 January 2006Account Fee£10.0013 October 2003Paid referral fee£25.0001 February 2006Account Fee£10.0014 October 2003Paid referral fee£25.0001 March 2006Account Fee£10.0022 October 2003Interest Charged£7.5803 April 2006Account Fee£10.0003 November 2003Account Fee£7.5002 May 2006Account Fee£10.0024 November 2003Interest Charged£7.3001 June 2006Account Fee£10.0001 December 2003Account Fee£7.5003 July 2006Account Fee£10.0022 December 2003Interest Charged£5.0701 August 2006Account Fee£10.0002 January 2004Account Fee£7.5001 September 2006Account Fee£10.00£317.0022 January 2004Interest Charged£5.4206 November 2001Interest Charged£0.6002 February 2004Account Fee£7.5022 August 2002Interest Charged£7.0523 February 2004Interest Charged£5.5623 September 2002Interest Charged£8.8901 March 2004Account Fee£7.5022 October 2002Interest Charged£8.6103 March 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 November 2002Interest Charged£7.9011 March 2004Paid referral fee£25.0023 December 2002Interest Charged£7.0201 April 2004Account Fee£7.5022 January 2003Interest Charged£7.8322 April 2004Interest Charged£8.1324 February 2003Interest Charged£7.3404 May 2004Account Fee£7.5024 March 2003Interest Charged£7.5824 May 2004Interest Charged£6.8622 April 2003Interest Charged£9.0801 June 2004Account Fee£7.5022 July 2003Interest Charged£7.0522 June 2004Interest Charged£6.0522 August 2003Interest Charged£9.5001 July 2004Account Fee£7.5022 September 2003Interest Charged£8.3422 July 2004Interest Charged£6.7722 October 2003Interest Charged£7.5802 August 2004Account Fee£7.5024 November 2003Interest Charged£7.3010 August 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 December 2003Interest Charged£5.0711 August 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 January 2004Interest Charged£5.4223 August 2004Interest Charged£5.6523 February 2004Interest Charged£5.5601 September 2004Account Fee£9.5022 April 2004Interest Charged£8.1322 September 2004Interest Charged£7.9024 May 2004Interest Charged£6.8601 October 2004Account Fee£9.5022 June 2004Interest Charged£6.0508 October 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 July 2004Interest Charged£6.7711 October 2004Paid referral fee£25.0023 August 2004Interest Charged£5.6522 October 2004Interest Charged£6.5222 September 2004Interest Charged£7.9001 November 2004Account Fee£9.5022 October 2004Interest Charged£6.5222 November 2004Interest Charged£6.9322 November 2004Interest Charged£6.9301 December 2004Account Fee£9.5022 December 2004Interest Charged£5.5901 December 2004Paid referral fee£25.0024 January 2005Interest Charged£9.2102 December 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 February 2005Interest Charged£7.6908 December 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 March 2005Interest Charged£6.5922 December 2004Interest Charged£5.5922 April 2005Interest Charged£6.1004 January 2005Account Fee£9.5023 May 2005Interest Charged£5.1210 January 2005Paid referral fee£25.0022 June 2005Interest Charged£6.9924 January 2005Interest Charged£9.2122 July 2005Interest Charged£0.8701 February 2005Account Fee£9.5022 August 2005Interest Charged£5.5302 February 2005Paid referral fee£25.0022 September 2005Interest Charged£12.5422 February 2005Interest Charged£7.6924 October 2005Interest Charged£7.7101 March 2005Account Fee£9.5022 November 2005Interest Charged£6.1422 March 2005Interest Charged£6.5922 December 2005Interest Charged£2.5301 April 2005Account Fee£9.5023 January 2006Interest Charged£6.5322 April 2005Interest Charged£6.1022 February 2006Interest Charged£6.6503 May 2005Account Fee£9.5022 March 2006Interest Charged£6.2323 May 2005Interest Charged£5.1224 April 2006Interest Charged£5.0501 June 2005Account Fee£9.5022 May 2006Interest Charged£7.5822 June 2005Interest Charged£6.9922 June 2006Interest Charged£8.7601 July 2005Account Fee£9.5024 July 2006Interest Charged£8.2322 July 2005Interest Charged£0.8722 August 2006Interest Charged£5.89£320.0626 July 2005Paid referral fee£25.0018 July 2002Paid referral fee£20.0027 July 2005Paid referral fee£25.0003 September 2002Paid referral fee£20.0001 August 2005Account Fee£9.5004 December 2002Paid referral fee£20.0022 August 2005Interest Charged£5.5303 March 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 September 2005Account Fee£9.5012 March 2003Paid referral fee£20.0005 September 2005Paid referral fee£25.0019 March 2003Paid referral fee£20.0007 September 2005Paid referral fee£25.0022 May 2003Paid referral fee£20.0022 September 2005Interest Charged£12.5428 May 2003Paid referral fee£20.0003 October 2005Account Fee£9.5002 July 2003Paid referral fee£20.0024 October 2005Interest Charged£7.7108 July 2003Paid referral fee£20.0001 November 2005Account Fee£9.5013 October 2003Paid referral fee£25.0022 November 2005Interest Charged£6.1414 October 2003Paid referral fee£25.0001 December 2005Account Fee£9.5003 March 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 December 2005Interest Charged£2.5311 March 2004Paid referral fee£25.0003 January 2006Account Fee£10.0010 August 2004Paid referral fee£25.0005 January 2006Paid referral fee£25.0011 August 2004Paid referral fee£25.0023 January 2006Interest Charged£6.5308 October 2004Paid referral fee£25.0001 February 2006Account Fee£10.0011 October 2004Paid referral fee£25.0022 February 2006Interest Charged£6.6501 December 2004Paid referral fee£25.0001 March 2006Account Fee£10.0002 December 2004Paid referral fee£25.0016 March 2006Paid referral fee£25.0008 December 2004Paid referral fee£25.0020 March 2006Paid referral fee£25.0010 January 2005Paid referral fee£25.0022 March 2006Interest Charged£6.2302 February 2005Paid referral fee£25.0003 April 2006Account Fee£10.0026 July 2005Paid referral fee£25.0010 April 2006Paid referral fee£30.0027 July 2005Paid referral fee£25.0024 April 2006Interest Charged£5.0505 September 2005Paid referral fee£25.0002 May 2006Account Fee£10.0007 September 2005Paid referral fee£25.0002 May 2006Paid referral fee£30.0005 January 2006Paid referral fee£25.0022 May 2006Interest Charged£7.5816 March 2006Paid referral fee£25.0023 May 2006Paid referral fee£30.0020 March 2006Paid referral fee£25.0001 June 2006Account Fee£10.0010 April 2006Paid referral fee£30.0008 June 2006Paid referral fee£30.0002 May 2006Paid referral fee£30.0022 June 2006Interest Charged£8.7623 May 2006Paid referral fee£30.0023 June 2006Paid referral fee£30.0008 June 2006Paid referral fee£30.0029 June 2006Paid referral fee£30.0023 June 2006Paid referral fee£30.0003 July 2006Account Fee£10.0029 June 2006Paid referral fee£30.0024 July 2006Interest Charged£8.2320 September 2006Paid referral fee£30.0001 August 2006Account Fee£10.0007 August 2002Stopped cheques£10.0022 August 2006Interest Charged£5.8906 November 2001Unpaids out£25.0001 September 2006Account Fee£10.0006 December 2002Unpaids out£30.00paid referrals total20 September 2006Paid referral fee£30.0006 January 2003Unpaids out£30.00£1,005.00TOTAL£1,642.06

[Michael Browne]

You don't need to reply to their 2nd offer letter, you've already told them you're only accepting as partial.

 

Looks like you have an Additions a/c. Fees for this can't be claimed.

 

There are 2 instances of interest you can claim:

 

1.When you go overdrawn the bank will charge you interest, perfectly lawfully.

 

However, if part of your overdraft is made up of penalty fees, they are also charging you interest on these too and it is this interest which you are entitled to claim back, but it's tricky to separate out from the total interest figure.

 

Vampiress has a spreadsheet, (the advanced one), in the bank templates library, which attempts to calculate this

 

It's quite complex and unless your claim is large may not amount to that much, so for simplicity's sake, some people don't bother

 

This is the interest referred to in the preliminary and LBA letters.

 

2. Section 69 8% interest on your claim, but only when you submit a claim at court. Don't add this interest before moneyclaim

[Michael Browne]

Also stopped cheques are a service, if you have requested this.

[MARTIN3030]

All posts moved here to Barclays.

[Amyburrage]

Thanks for the info Michael Brown.

 

So the breakdown looks like this...

 

Interest Charged over 5 years = £320.00 which if I reading correctly by the time I've worked it out it probably will be so little that its hardly worth including?

 

Additions Accounts Fees of varying amounts over the years but in total came to about £500 I can't get back and they basically screwed me out of this money!???!!!

 

Unstopped cheques for which there has only been one of £10.00 is a service that I must have requested and again can't get back?

 

Which leaves me with £995.00 paid referral fees and unpaids out of varying amounts over the 5 years for which I received a £520.offer. Which is still only just over half the amount I'm requesting and a third of what I thought I could get back?!

 

So my next step is to register with www.moneyclaimonline.gov.uk and register with them to get all my money back for which we are hoping the bank will decide it will not come to court?

 

Any advice gratefully received!

Amy.x

[Welshman]

Hi Amy. Further to Michael's response and in answer to your last post, I would confirm that everything he has told you is correct. There are some Claimants getting to the stage now where Barclays WILL settle with them but are disputing the levels of interest charged, and this is hindering the case. When I filed at MCOL, the Particulars of Claim that I used was:

 

"The Claimant had a contract with the Defendant Your account number here from Approximate date account opened which was conducted on their standard terms and conditions. The Claimant claims the return of £ amount before adding % age levied by the defendant in the way of charges. The charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs 1999, Para 8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The defendant has been asked to justify the charges but they have declined to do so. The Claimant claims interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from Date of the first of their charges against you to Date of the last charge of £ place the 8% figure here and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of multiply your amount before interest by 0.0002 and put here (Mine is £0.45).

As for the fees charged for the Additions account, ask them to supply the agreement you allegedly signed to enter into it. I'm fairly confident that they won't be able to produce one - depends how far back it started. Then ask for your money back on it. They have agreed to partially refund some people - the most I think was £118. But I, personally, would wait until the conclusion of the main claim before pursuing that one.

[Amyburrage]

I am making a claim with moneyclaimonline etc and I have written this...

 

The Claimant had a contract with the Defendant 5xxxxxxx from approximately Sept 1999 which was conducted on their standard terms and conditions. The Claimant claims the return of £995.00 levied by the defendant in the way of charges. The Charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are Contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act s.7s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs 1999, Para 8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The defendant has been asked to justify the charges but they have Declined to do so. The Claimant claims interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 6 Dec 2001 to 20 Sept 2006 of £1168.15 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.20.

 

The problem is that the particulars of claim thing coming up is saying I cannot write any more than 24 lines or 1080 characters. I have 25 lines!!! Not above I know but when it goes into the little box it gives you it reduces the size and creates 25 lines. Now what?

[Welshman]

That's exactly the text I used and it fitted. Have a check through, maybe you have a double space or something somewhere pushing the text down a bit. Other than that, I can't think what the problem might be. In the alternative, you may have to file a form N1 at your court. that does not have a restiction as severe as MCOL.

[dodderhill]

Hi, I had the same problem, I got round it by removing any spaces that I'd inserted between the end of one sentence and the begining of the next, grammatically ugly, but it fitted!

Hope this helps. Dodderhill

[Amyburrage]

I made a claim with MCOL on the 1st Dec giving Barclays 14 days to reply with an admission or defence...this is now up as it is the 15th Dec and I have heard nothing. When I'm loggin on to MCOL it is not letting me make a judgement by default...anyone tell me why? I'm a bit confused again about what the next step will be?!

[Amyburrage]

Is there anyone who knows any more than me about the £120 that I paid MCOL to register my claim. Apparently as I am on benefits I either did not have to pay this or can claim it back. Does anyone know how as I could really do with the money? I am hoping that your not going to say that I shouldn't have paid it in the first place and it is now gone forever as I would be well pee'd off but am new at all this so would just accept it! I will try the MCOL helpline number first and then see what they say but don't know if these are the right people? :? :? :?

[Deller]

You will get the £120 refunded along with your claim.

[Amyburrage]

I've had a Defence and Counterclaim from Northampton County Court. I am going to type it exactly as they have written it in the hope that somebody can translate and help me work out what the heck to do next!

 

1. How much of the claim do you dispute?

I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.

2. Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it?

No

3. Defence

1. The Particulars of Claim do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and/or the presise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that that Claimant incurred bank charges on her account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, "Paid referral fees" or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

2. The Defendant is entitled to charge the Claimant for unauthorised borrowings by reason of its standard terms and conditions. the Claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):

a. The Defendant's right to charge a "Paid Referral Fee" where the Defendant pays an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25).

b. The Defendants right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient cleared funds in the account - £35 per item (previously £30).

c. The Defendant's entitlement, if the Claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

3. The Defendant's standard terms and conditions give the Claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or wher the Claimant exceeds her authorised overdraft limit).

4. If and to the extent it is the Claimant's case that the failure to make necessary payments and/or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits failure to arrange an authorised overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the Claimant's account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the Claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of her account and were consideration for the Defendant advancing credit to the Claimant, which the Defendant was under no obligation to advance. The Defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the Claimant incurred the overdraft.

5. Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (particularly but without limitation to, paragraph 1(e) of Schedule 2), or are in breach of s.4 of the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 (or any other provision), or are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (or indeed any other provision).

6. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.

7. If and to the extent the Claimant incurred charges on her account, this was caused by the Claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the Defendant an authorised overdraft facility or to increase the overdraft facility and / or her failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit.

8. It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable that the Defendant was entitled to debit the same. Accordingly, the Claimant is not entitled to a declaration by the Court as to the enforcability of the said charges.

9. The Defendant denies that it is liable to the Claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded by the Claimant or at all. In the alternative, which is denied, if the said charges amount to sums payable on breach of contract, it is averred that the charges asserted by the Claimant to have been applied to the account prior to 1st December 2000 would not be recoverable from reason of exhaustion of time in bringing contractual claims from the date of accrual, pursuant to the Limitation Act 1980.

10. In the alternative, and without prejudice to paragraph 6 above, if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the Claimant or at all, the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a consequence of the Claimant's breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that the Defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out at paragraphs 2 and 3 above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of said charges, and the Defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed hereunder to the Claimant.

Barclays Bank PLC

 

If someone would be kind enough to translate this into English-non-lawyer-terms for me i'd really appreciate it! I'm also struggling to know what to do with this Allocation questionnaire (Small Claims Track) that is asking to be sent back within 2 weeks? The first question is

 

A. Do you wish any further action in this claim to be postponed for one month so that you and the other party can attempt to settle the claim either by informal discussion or by alternative dispute resolution?

(Yes or No)

 

There's also a rather large "Other information" section which looks like it may want me to rant on about something but if I don't need to I won't!

 

Please Help! I'm again totally confused and am even considering seeking advice from a Solicitor except if I'm not going to lose they will have a cut and that thought annoys me if I can do this without one!? Please advise?

[simpson3375]

The defence looks like the standard one that Barclays use. You can find out information on the AQ from here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Scroll down and there are notes on what to put on the form