Sent a watch to a watch-mender to get it fixed. - Refund under guarantee? ***Resolved***

[vegetablelasagne]

Hi,

I sent a watch to a watch-mender to get it fixed.

 

When it was returned, unfortunately, it still didn't work.

I returned it to him and after an extremely long time (almost a year of non-communication) I asked for my watch to be returned with a refund so I could get it fixed elsewhere.

He returned it almost immediately but (depressingly) it still isn't working.
He's told me that it's under guarantee, but I don't want to have to send it to him again to get it 'fixed' - all of my trust in him has gone and the watch holds a great deal of sentimentality.

SO.
If the watch is under his guarantee (for a year now) - can I still demand a refund?

Thanks.

[BankFodder]

so do I understand that you returned it to be repaired and you paid for the repair but despite this it still doesn't work and you are now out of pocket?

How much are we talking about here?

 

[vegetablelasagne]

Hi BF,

 

I paid him £200 to be repaired.

It still isn't working, but it's under guarantee.

I just want my money back.

 

I also have a feeling that he isn't going to reply to my email asking him for a refund - so what do I do? (if I'm entitled to one)

 

Btw - the £200 was saved up over time as my Dad gave me the watch (it was working then) just before he died - it's not like I'm rolling in money - this is a lot of money for a working lone parent.

[BankFodder]

Please monitor this thread for a fuller reply tonight or tomorrow. However, yes you can claim your money back butyou made need to have an independent assessment of the condition of the watch in order to claim your money back . don't worry about the guarantee . You have your statutory rights

[BankFodder]

It would be helpful if you could post up a bullet pointed chronology of events.

you took the watch to the repairer, it was apparently repaired, you discovered that it was still malfunctioning etc. Please could you provide a timeline of these events

 

[vegetablelasagne]

Yes of course:

End of November - sent to be repaired.

Dec - received but not working

Jan - emailed regarding the issue (following christmas).

March - sent to be repaired (following an unexpected house move this end and beginning of lockdown).

Watch received but communication now becomes non-existant.

June - after repeated emails with no response I ask for return of watch and refund.

Early July - the same.

A week later - watch is sent to my old address with email saying it has been repaired.

A week later - I track it down - it's not working - exactly the same issue - sporadic starting and stopping.

 

The £0.00 invoice (under guarantee) gives no information on work done and I wonder if anything has been done at all.

 

I have since asked him (yrsyerday) to give me more info on work done/parts replaced with proof of purchase of any parts and requested fir the third time - a refund.

 

 

 

Does that help?

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

*yesterday

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

 

Who is the repairer?

 

A shop?

Sole trader???

???

[Manxman in exile]

I'm a bit confused - you say you sent it to the repairer (for the second time) in March (this year?) and that it's only just been returned to you.  But you say in your opening post: 

 

"When it was returned, unfortunately, it still didn't work.

I returned it to him and after an extremely long time (almost a year of non-communication) I asked for my watch to be returned with a refund so I could get it fixed elsewhere". 

So was it almost a year or just up to four months?

 

When is your supposed guarantee running from? 

December 2019(?) when you first got it back from him,

or from now when you got it back the second time?

 

Also (because I'm interested in watches) how did you come to choose this particular watch repairer? 

A good repairer who knows what they are doing is hard to find these days.

 

If he can't explain to you why it isn't working and why he hasn't fixed it, I'd want my money back*. 

If he won't play ball you may need to get an expert report on the repair and consider suing him. 

See what Bankfodder suggests.

 

*£200 is quite a lot. 

Is it a valuable or rare watch or is it the sentimental value as a gift from your dad?

[vegetablelasagne]

*yesterday

 

Hi All 

 

He is a sole trader who was recommended by a few enthusiasts on a watch forum.

The watch is/was worth £300 - it's vintage.

 

Yes Manxman - my oringinal post was incorrect - when I went back over my emails - it's been less than a year - feels a lot longer.

 

He's told me that my guarantee runs from June 2020.

 

I just want my money back.

 

I was cinsidering reporting him to trading standards and taking him to the small claims court if I hear nothing.

 

Would this be the right procrss - from what I can make out the small claims court would cost £25?

Edited July 27, 2020 by vegetablelasagne

[BankFodder]

presumably you know his address. Is it his residential address? Does he own a property? You can find out by doing a search on the land registry web search.

The way forward here will be to threaten and then to bring a small claim. if you have the email correspondence between you which makes it clear that you had problems from the outset then I expect that your chances of success will be much better than 90%.

Find out about his address because this is important when it comes round to enforcing a judgement. Then we can help you with your next step

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

That's all very upsetting for you - relatively valuable watch of great sentimentality.

 

I think any watch repairer worth their salt (and reputation) should have charged you a non-refundable fee to examine the watch to determine whether it was repairable in the first place.  Have you asked him why his attempts to repair the watch have failed?  The guarantee/warranty would seem irrelevant to me if he hasn't actually succeeded in fixing it from the outset.  I'd have thought the guarantee was only relevant if it subsequently stopped working after repair.

 

This may be a stupid question - you have actually made it perfectly clear to him that his attempts to fix it have failed and that it's not worked since he first sent it back?  He does understand he hasn't fixed it at all?

 

If you can't resolve this amicably you may have to sue him.   (I don't want to say this because I don't even like the idea of doing so, but if you found him via watch forums have you thought about asking there?  You could simply ask the question as you've initially asked it here - without naming him.  You may want to name him later - but I'm uncomfortable with that sort of thing.)

 

(FYI - my local TV/audio/electrical shop does repairs but they charge a small non-refundable inspection fee which can be off-set against any final repair cost.  I also use a local independent white-appliance repairer who doesn't charge if he can't fix your appliance.  I've used him a couple of times and last time I had to argue with him because he wouldn't even charge a call-out fee!).

 

 

[vegetablelasagne]

I do have his address - it's where I sent the watch.

I'm actually worried - as he has my adress too though

 

I have thought of naming and shaming him on the forum, but I too - feel uncomfortable with that kind of thing.

 

I sent this to him 2 days ago - have heard nothing:

 

Dear.....

 

Please could you give me further details on the work which was carried out on my watch - parts replaced etc - you mentioned that you were waiting for a part to be delivered on the phone.

Please could you provide more detail on the part and proof of purchase.

Unfortunately, your invoice only states 'Put in order U/G'

 

I am going to get an independent assessment of work done on the watch and it's current state.

 

In the meantime, I am repeating my request for a full money refund which is within my statutory rights.

I think we would both like to move on from this deeply upsetting experience.

 

If you decide against refunding me, I'm afraid I will have no choice but to take legal action. 

[BankFodder]

That's fine. That's a good letter. 

 

frankly I think that an independent assessment simply needs to confirm that the watch doesn't work. I don't think it needs to give a cause.

If he doesn'trespond to your letter in 7-days then I suggest that you sent him a letter of claim giving him 14 days before you issue the papers. Don't bluff. You must carry out your throat. Stick to your time scale. however I would just do one check on the land registry to see that he does own the property. And of course there is always the possibility that he has moved away.  maybe you should send him one letter ordinary post and another letter signed for post to check whether it has been received

 

 

 

[vegetablelasagne]

Thanks for your reply.

 

What is a letter of claim and how do I get one?

[BankFodder]

Click the letter of claim letter. This is a self-help forum and you have to do a bit of your own research

[Manxman in exile]

If you reach the stage of actually filing a claim, I would be inclined to include in your Particulars of Claim something like: 

 

"The defendant accepted the watch to repair it without making any prior assessment as to whether or not it was in fact repairable.  The failure of the defendant to repair the watch and the failure of the defendant to notify the claimant  of this indicates the watch was not repairable and the defendant should have realised this and notified the claimant and asked if they wanted to proceed".

 

I'm not sure of the best wording.  BF can amend anything you draft.

 

(Making a claim and your Particulars of claim come after your letter claim and if the defendant ignores your letter).

[BankFodder]

I think that I would keep it much simpler and also make sure that the narrative indicated very strongly that the defendant is trading as a repairer as this will affect the decision as to where the case should be allocated in the event but there is a face-to-face hearing (unlikely).

 

 

Quote

The defendant operates a watch repair service. The claimant agreed with the defendant to repair his watch and paid £xxxx.  The watch was not repaired and continued to malfunction despite being sent to the defendant repairer a second time. The defendant repairer refuses to reimburse the claimant his money.

The claimant seeks reimbursement of £xxx plus interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984

 

[vegetablelasagne]

Hi - as requested, I went to an Horologist to get proof that the watch wasn't working. It isn't working.

I sent him her response today and very shortly afterwards, received this deeply upsetting reply:

 

Quote

 

"In accordance with consumer Law, you were given 14 days to submit your report as of 29^th July2020. That period of time has passed.  I therefore will not be considering your request and this matter is now closed.

                Any further correspondence will be passed to my solicitor and considered Harassment.

Regards Mr XXXXX"

 

 

 

Where on earth do I stand now.

I paid him £200 to fix my watch.

He's failed twice and is now walking away from me entirely?!

In a panic, I stupidly replied asking him to therefore repair it under the guarantee which still stands(?) although in hindsight, the thought of sending my watch back to him again is something I really don't want to do.

Any advice?
Thanks.

 

[dx100uk]

if you have written evidence that within 30 days of you receiving the watch back you informed him the watch was not working, under CRA and contract law he doesn't have a leg to stand on...forget any guarantee/warranty, they are not worth the paper they are written on, and do not replace nor negate your consumer rights.

 

dx

 

[Manxman in exile]

OP - I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but did you happen to pay him by credit card?  (I suspect you didn't but no harm asking).

 

I'd be inclined to go along with a letter before claim* as per BankFodder's earlier suggestion.  You can't be accused of harrassment by threatening to sue him!  See if he has the wit to defend it.

 

Did the horologist you consulted give an opinion as to whether or not the watch is in fact repairable?

 

 

*Can you show you complained within 30 days of the second(?) repair as asked by dx100uk?

[BankFodder]

In these particular circumstances, you needn't even worry about 30 days.

You shouldn't find this upsetting. You should find this response encouraging because clearly you are dealing with a man who has no idea what he's talking about.

As long as you have evidence that the watch was returned to you not working – then this is all you need.

If you are prepared to take this to the County Court then as long as you have the evidence, your chances of success are much better than 90%.

If this is what you would like to do then of course we will support you. You should send a letter of claim.

 

Quote

Dear Mr X X X

You are quite wrong as to your interpretation of consumer law. There are no such deadlines as you suggest. Furthermore, I'm simply pursuing my legitimate consumer rights and there is no question of harassment. Do instruct a solicitor if you want.

As you know I submitted my watch to you for repairs on X X X date and again on X X X date. You were paid. On the second occasion you had the watch in your possession for almost a year and had to be asked to return it.

I now want reimbursement of the money that I paid and if you will not let me have it within 14 days then I will sue you in the County Court for the reimbursement plus interest plus costs.

Believe me

 

As I said, he's talking nonsense about harassment.

If you want to go ahead then send the letter of claim. But don't bluff. If you bluff then you will simply lose credibility and you will get nowhere.

If you send the letter of claim then spend the 14 days looking up the steps as to how to bring a county court claim. Register with the Moneyclaim online website and prepare your claim.

Make sure that you identify him – the defendant – as X X X (trading as a professional watch repairer).

Make sure that in the particulars of claim he is described as a professional. This is so that if there happens to be a face-to-face hearing – unlikely – then the case is more likely to be listed in your local County Court.

Let us know if you want to go ahead and we will help you with the drafting of the particulars of claim

[BankFodder]

By the way, I'm not sure that you have told us what the repair bill was. What is the value of this claim?

[Manxman in exile]

BankFodder - just one comment - the OP was wrong when originally claiming that the repairer had it for almost a year - it was only about four months (see OP's posts 25 July.  I'd love to give a post reference number but can't!)

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Manxman in exile
joke in italics

[BankFodder]

Thanks. This is a contract for services anyway – so all of the 30 day/6 month deadlines et cetera don't apply because they relate to sale of goods contracts.

We talking about here is a normal contract where it seems that the OP has been deprived of the entire purpose/value of the contract – and is therefore entitled to his money back. There's no doubt about it and as long as he has evidence then he will win.

The watch repairers is crazy to start saying that simply because somebody is protesting that he breached the contract, they are harassing him.

 

[Manxman in exile]

Yes.  What I meant was the OP needs to amend the bit in your draft letter from the repairer having the watch for almost a year* (to do the second repair) to him having it for four months.  (The OP doesn't need to get into a dispute over how long the second attempted repair took).

 

 

*The OP did originally say almost a year but her timeline shows that to be an exaggeration

 

EDIT: I agree the repairer comes across as a bit of an idiot...

Edited September 5, 2020 by Manxman in exile