backdoor CCJ Aktiv Kaptial - set aside - whats next?

[batty69]

I had a set aside hearing last year, which took all of 30 secs for the Judge to grant

(DCA used previous address trick, judge wasn't happy with the 100+ letters from the claimant to my current address and duly awarded me full costs )

 

judge didn't order them to refile claim, although I am aware they can whether or not the judge orders it.

 

move on year, they have now rerepresented the claim.

 

My question is does this claim go exactly back to beginning ?

 

i.e. I do acknoweldgement of service, plus time to file a defence etc, etc ?

 

the reason why I ask, I havn't been sent the original (or a new one) claim, and the refiling of the claim has come from a judge.

 

The letter states "IT IS ORDERED THAT the defendant do file and serve a defence by xx on XX/XX/XX"

 

does this mean I have to whack in the full defence by xx/xx/xx?

[AndyOrch]

Yes Batty AoS will have been dispensed with.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[batty69]

Thanks Andy, thought so.

 

So claimant is still gaining an advantage again because they supplied the court with information that they knew was wrong (i.e. my address).

 

I have only a few days to get this defence in now, what are my options for creating more time for myself?

 

Also as this has suddenly come randomly out of the blue from the judge, how come I wern't informed before it went to the judge ?

[AndyOrch]

Well you should have received General Order after the set a side with directions.

 

An incorrect address is not fatal to their claim...providing they have not received judgment (bad service)

An incorrect name is and they would have to re present and discontinue the original claim.

 

If the DJ as ordered a defence be submitted by xxxxxxx Im afraid there is very little wriggle room to extend it...unless you agree with the Claimant to an extension and vacation of any hearing with the courts permission...at your cost.

[batty69]

Hi Andy the directions given by the judge were "Judgement to be set aside and costs awarded to the defendant", judge gave no directions about refiling the claim.

 

I asked the judge to include that direction, as I feared that the claimant being able to refile at a time of their chosing would be abused in future, but the judge slapped me down.

 

The wrong address is irrelvant to the claim now, however it was relevant to my set aside as I used that as the grounds to have it granted.

 

But this is the problem, in preparation for the set aside hearing, I didn't set out to defend the claim as the set aside hearing was not about the merits of my case but wether the judgement was "faulty".

 

Now I am in the position of not being anywhere near having a defence jotted down, but have to get one ready by early next week

 

Hi I realise why I am at 6 & 3's, it's because i havn't been sent the response pack.

 

I've been given no info from the court about what happens next.

 

Do I just need to fill in form 9NB (I'm going to counterclaim) by that date ?

and does it just need the grounds for my defence, not the full (and quite lengthy) details of the defence ?

[AndyOrch]

You don't get a response pack after a successful set a side.As already stated you should have received a General Order...check with your Court.Having said that if thats all the DJ has directed ie submit your defence by xxxxxxx then prob not even that will be issued.You submit your CC with your fully particularised defence.

 

Andy

[batty69]

I did get a general order, but it has come a year after the set aside was granted (also it does not mention set aside hearing)

 

Is there a form I should be using for the full particularised defence ?

 

there seems to be some confusion over what has happened here, so here's a quick timeline and what the problem is.

 

Jan 2012, claimant took out claim using my previous address, a few weeks later default judgement is granted.

 

March 2012, Set aside granted because it was an irregular judgement due to irregular service. Because I could prove Claimant knew my true address, I was awarded costs.

 

The Judgement read "Judgement is set aside and costs of XX awarded to defendant", i.e. no instruction was given to claimant to refile (although I'm fully aware they can because claim is still live, it's only the judgment that has been set aside not the claim)

 

April 2012: Claimant coughs up my costs

 

Since then nothing, nothing from court, nothing from claimant, nothing from anyone.

 

roll forward a year:

 

Feb 2013, letter comes from Judge, "General form of order or Judgement" instucting me to file a defence by xx/xx/xx

 

problem is I don't know what part of the process I'm in now!

 

Google and searching on here hasnt revealed anything, asking the court has been like using a chocolate teapot.

 

i.e. I ring up court,

gave them my case number,

then asked "what do I next",

response "I'm not allowed to say as that constitutes legal advice",

"Ok I know I need to give a defence, but how ?

What form do I need to use?",

"Sorry sir I'm not allowed to tell you which forms you need to submit as that constitutes legal advice"

[AndyOrch]

Not really...... straight forward ...it has taken the claimant 11 months to represent the claim after set a side...you now just submit your defence /PT 20 CC by xxth ...job done(Copy to Court and to Claimant also)

[batty69]

Thanks again for the reply Andy, what is "/PT20" ?

My Defence is the full and detailed defence, i.e. defending each of the POC's, with concise rebuttal and documentary proof.

 

e.g. Claimants claims £ XXXX as of XX/XX/XXXX,

However the first contact from the Claimant was on XX/XX/XXXX where they claimed an amount of £XXXX. (exhibit x.x)

[AndyOrch]

Thanks again for the reply Andy, what is "/PT20" ? The proper Court term for a Counter Claim

 

So My Defence is the full and detailed defence, i.e. defending each of the POC's, with concise rebuttal and documentary proof.

 

e.g. Claimants claims £ XXXX as of XX/XX/XXXX, However the first contact from the Claimant was on XX/XX/XXXX where they claimed an amount of £XXXX. (exhibit x.x)

 

Yes respond to their PoC and attach your PT20.

 

Andy

 

[batty69]

Thanks Andy, I'm starting to think I understand where I am in the process now.

Sorry for the handholding.

Doing a set aside or defending a claim from scratch is well documented on the net, this doesnt seem to be (or I'm not searching the correct places)

 

Fortunately I do have all my Evidence and documents compiled, it's just a case of typing them up, there's 9 year worth of paperwork to go through, it's going to be a very long weekend for me!

 

Just for clarification,

is this defence different to my WS,

i.e. where I give a timeline of events and draw all the strands together.

Or does this defence need to act as my WS aswell ?

[AndyOrch]

If the DJ has requested a defence then it a particularised defence...but not as in depth as a WS.I personally would not attach anything or refer to case law...save that for your WS later in the process.

[batty69]

Cheers Andy,

Once my defence is in,

will the AQ still be sent out ?

or is this step skipped aswell because it was already allocated a track first time round ?

[AndyOrch]

Yes it will be dispensed with however you should be allowed to suggest Directions.

[DonkeyB]

Do you know what the PoC was? have you done a CPR request? If you need any help with the merits of your case, we’ll need a lot more info.

[batty69]

i have the PoC's, I've done DSAR's on various parties which have all been complied with ?

 

Can I still do CPR requests

or is it moot point in that if they produce something in court which they didnt disclose with the DSAR I can challenge it ?

[DonkeyB]

Depends what the basis of your defence will be! CPR is useful in that CPR31 can lead you to CPR18... all depends on the facts of the case. And your counterclaim. Difficult to answer without knowing what the case is about.

 

Have you been given 14 days to file? That’s usual.

[batty69]

Merits of the case are straight forward,

 

POC: The claimant (a DCA) claims to have bought a debt off Bank A

 

Defence: The defendant is still a customer of Bank A and the alleged debt could not have been assigned as the account is still open with bank A and never been in default. Claimant then shows court his latest statement from bank A.

 

you cant get anything more straightforward than that!

[DonkeyB]

Not really. But it sounds like the claimant has done something wrong somewhere.

 

Has Bank A confirmed that the account is open, has not been sold and that they have no relationship with the claimant? Have they made a generic claim (‘an account’) or given a specific account number?

[batty69]

Yes specific account number been given in POC's, bank cant confirm if that account is open/closed/sold to a debt collector as the account number does not pertain to me. however bank has confirmed my account is open and has been for a long time.

 

Yes something is seriously wrong,

thought the claimant would shove off after the set aside as the case is clearly without merit and i thought they did as they left it a year.

 

However what has happened is that I have applied for a mortgage recently,

next thing I have a strange footprint on my credit report,

then bang they have resubmitted the claim.

 

I think they are trying to put pressure on me to cough up,

as they did something similiar first time round.

 

First time round,

I got a new job which required a credit check as i work in the finance industry,

then next thing same strange footprint on credit report.

 

Then claimant whacks in a claim and get default judgement as they provided false address to court.

 

After Judgement given,

claimant contacts me to tell me I have CCJ,

and that I should cough up or they will apply for an AoE and my employers would then find out about my CCJ putting my career in jeopardy.

[DonkeyB]

Is this damage the basis of your counterclaim? Would love to see their evidence!

 

The problem I see is that they are probably basing their claim on data supplied by your bank – perhaps info bundled with dozens or hundreds of other sold accounts.

But they would have to revert to your bank for proof, which would be interesting.

 

Have you ever told them directly the debt is not yours, and to prove it or ‘do one’?

[batty69]

That will be part of it, the CC will be about all the time, expense and damage to reputation I have suffered due to having to deal with such a vexatious claim!

 

yes several occasions,

CCA'd them,

done the lot of the stuff that is suggested on this site,

went through all the motions.

 

After a year I got bored of it,

and started sending them a bog standard reply which said take me to court.

They never did for 5 years,

until they seen the credit search for my new job on my report.

[DonkeyB]

Five years? Blimey, wasn’t it SB by then, even if it was yours? Not that that should be any defence as it’s not your account.

 

Ditto, asking for a copy of the agreement via CCA can also be taken to imply you know something about the account – only encouraged them to keep pestering.

 

Is it a credit card? Did they respond to the CCA request?

[batty69]

Yep it's well and truly stat barred,

however they used my £1 fee for CCA to pay towards the debt and so are claiming the SB clock has been reset and didnt comply with CCA request, debt dates back to 1999, and the original credit was taking out in the early 90's before I was even 18 (and hence couldnt obtain credit!)

 

Yes it is a credit card.

[DonkeyB]

Aha. As I said – sending the £1 fee gave them an opportunity to try and deliberately deceive you. That’s why I advise against CCA requests if it’s not your account.

 

But it sounds like you’re enjoying this. I certainly would. You should ask for costs on an indemnity basis, in addition to your counterclaim. They are clearly vexatious.

 

Can you tell us who’s involved?