Excel ANPR Windscreen PCN Claimform - Brewery St car park, Chesterfield on 02.07. 2018 ***Claim Dismissed***

[FTMDave]

No, they haven't covered themselves.  It was the driver of the car who entered into any contract with Excel.  It's got nothing to do with you.  You weren't even there!

 

So in your defence I'd add something like "I was not the driver of the vehicle and so could not enter into any contract with Excel". 

 

Also "The driver of the car effected complete payment of the parking fee".

 

The easiest way to see if the place is covered by bye-laws is to go back there if the place is local to you, or get someone who lives locally to do so.  There are normally signs up about bye-laws.

[ericsbrother]

they have abused the law by trying to add 2 different things togethjer as a single point whe they actualkly fail to create the conditions to create a contact by either of them alone.

so your simple defence is

1 the defendant was not the driver at the time and no keeper liability ahs been created under the POFA2012

2 the driver at the time paid the prescribed fee so there was no breach of contract and thus no cause of action against anyone.

 

The defendant requests that the claim be struck out by the court using its management powers under CPR 3.4

 

 

now the last bit probably wont happen but if the court clerks read this properly then the chances are Excel will be forced to show they do have proof of their claim or it will be booted out. Quite often all that happens is the paperwork is filed until later so if you dont hear anmything dont be surprised

[Slaughter64]

Thanks for that, appreciate it. I've not had chance yet to have a good read through those links etc, I've got another couple of weeks yet I think.

 

Should that be enough then, along with a brief explanation of what actually happened on the day?

[FTMDave]

Just file the 4-line defence that EB has suggested.  Nothing more.  That's all that is needed at this stage.

 

If Excel are stupid enough to continue with the case, you will have time later on to expand on what happened at WS stage.

 

I think your deadline is 9 August, whatever you do don't miss it!

 

 

 

 

 

[Slaughter64]

Surely it will help if I explain the ticket was purchased and I still have it etc? They don't know the details as yet.

[dx100uk]

didn't need too at this stage 

we hit them with that later so they waste more money on court fees...

[ericsbrother]

15 hours ago, Slaughter64 said:

Surely it will help if I explain the ticket was purchased and I still have it etc? They don't know the details as yet.

No, thye are the ones whio have to prove their case so let them waste £100 of their money getting nowhere rather than you spend money on a stamp.

you can have them for breach of the GDPR later if you want becasue they have lied to the DVLA to get your keeper details and then  continued to process your data unfairly. You might have a claim for harassment as well but the bar is set quite high for that.

these parking co's back out of thousands of claims when thye are challenged and if everyone of those sued Simon would be out of business

[Slaughter64]

Ok, thanks, you've both helped to put my mind at ease, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Slaughter64]

Ok, I filed the short defence and have received a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the small claims track, along with a N180 Directions Questionnaire.

 

I presume this is standard procedure, but what do I put? Do I agree to the case being referred to Mediation? What about the questions referring to the 

potential court hearing etc?

[brassnecked]

No to  mediation

[dx100uk]

so you've not been reading up here in the 'downtime' between stages?

plenty of pcn claimform threads here on with what to do.

 

dx

 

[Slaughter64]

Sorry, there's just so much to read through and I can never seem to find stuff that's specifically relevant to me.

 

If it's any consolation, I now know what it's like to be on the other end of inane and repetitive questions, from the forum that I frequent regularly, in my own field!

[dx100uk]

Narrow your search 

 

Pcn claimform n180

 

Dx

[AndyOrch]

 

[Slaughter64]

I just received a Notice of Trial date and a N157 Allocation to Hearing (early Jan).

Bit of a shock tbh, but I guess they may still pull out

and just pay the 25 quid.

All I've had from Excel in the meantime is an offer of reduced fine to £125.

 

I now have a few weeks (early Dec) to prepare my witness statement.

I'm presuming I am the witness in this case, even thought the wife was using the car at the time -

I've not told her this is ongoing as she would worry too much (and would have just paid the original fine).

Any help or guidance or things

I should include in the statement, I  would be extremely grateful.

 

I guess I'll know if they are taking this all the way if I receive a copy of their evidence in due course?

[dx100uk]

witness statement time then

plenty here use our search.

 

you most certainly don't mention anything about your wife driving.

and ofcourse you having the ticket still will blow them out the water.

esp as their trade body has just stated in the new proposed guidelines 

such issues as yours would not result in a PCN

[brassnecked]

Play this right and you will have a nice claim under GDPR against Excel. the existence of the ticket and its scanned image as an exhibit will be a killer for Excel.

[Slaughter64]

Why should I not mention that my wife was driving? Excel already know this, AND that I still have the ticket, from my original letter

to appeal to the fine from two years ago. They still rejected it, just saying it was not clearly displayed. The court don't know any of this,

so surely they'll throw it out once they know all the facts?

 

I'd just like this to go away, I don't want to drag it out any further and appeal against them, I could just do without the hassle.

[dx100uk]

fine?

 

dx

[brassnecked]

3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

They are suing You as Keeper, saying who was driving at this point is counter productive.  Work up a WS and post it up as PDF then we can help fine tune it If Excel are suing the wrong person as if they knew she was driving at appeal they should have been suing her.  Or have I missed something here?

[FTMDave]

The matter won't just "go away", and was never going to from the moment that you decided, quite rightly, to fight it.

 

You're being taken to court, and you need to prepare for that, in particular you need to prepare a Witness Statement.

 

Simon has a lot of previous of starting cases he knows he has no chance of winning, as a tactic to try to intimidate the motorist into paying, and then withdrawing the claim after WS stage.   This may well happen to you.  But even if you do end up in court, a civil court hearing is no more intimidating than a job interview.

 

Remember that Excel's case is total and utter pants.  You are quite clearly legally in the right.

 

No, you won't find a WS on CAG that perfectly fits your own case, but what you will find is parts of different WSs that you can use.  In particular

   - Excel have no locus standi (that bit should be easy)

   - no planning permission (again, easy)

   - no keeper liability

   - they suffered no loss and are suing over a triviality.

 

 

[Slaughter64]

I certainly mentioned in a letter to them that she was driving, but I'm the registered keeper anyway, that's what they're focussing on.

 

I really don't want to go to court, even if it is straightforward and easy, I could just do without wasting the best part of a day, not to mention the hours I'll have to spend putting the WS together.

I still don't see why not telling the Court the whole story at this stage will work against me.

 

I can see it from you guys' point of view - to make him go all the way, but you need to see it from mine.

[brassnecked]

If you draft a WS along the lines suggested, include a photocopy of the ticket as Exhibit X related to point about they say you hadn't paid, then say well not displayed so breach of T & Cs, can't do that to you as keeper as POFA not met.  A robust WS might well make Simple cut and run, he won't want to be tolchocked by a DJ for his rubbish POC and potential abuse of process. If he cries off you can hit him for around £500 for flagrant breach of GDPR.

 

Its either WS and submit, or cough up his "generous" offer (NOT) of a reduced invoice. Or sit on hands and wait for the inevitable Default Judgment, and Simon walks away laughing.

[FTMDave]

Brassnecked is spot on.

 

You don't seem to understand that courts run to a legal procedure, and there's nothing you, me or any of us can do about that.

 

Excel have decided to sue you.  You have chosen to defend the claim.  The next stage is that both parties have to prepare WSs.  That's how the courts work.

 

The court will give you every opportunity to state your case - in the WS and then later in person in court (if it gets that far).

 

You can of course decide not to prepare a WS.  In that case you will have nothing to rely on in court, the judge will only hear Excel's side and you will lose the case.  Sorry, but if you want to beat Excel you need to put some work in. 

 

 

[Slaughter64]

It does say in the small print that I do not have to attend the hearing, and it will be heard in my absence (as long as they have notice), not sure if that is advised.

 

Best get writing that WS then...