Excel ANPR Windscreen PCN Claimform - Brewery St car park, Chesterfield on 02.07. 2018 ***Claim Dismissed***

[Slaughter64]

Hi All, newbie here, hope I'm doing this correctly.

 

Two years ago the wife was using my car and bought a ticket in a train station car park and displayed it on the dashboard.

She returned to find a parking charge notice from Excel.

 

It was a very windy day and it had evidently been blown on the the floor of the car as she left.

It did not have a self adhesive part to stick to the window.

I subsequently followed their online claim procedure and sent a copy of the ticket but the claim was refused.

 

A couple of days ago I received the County Court Business Centre claim form in the post after presuming it would go away after not hearing from them for about a year (the usual threatening letters from debt recovery companies etc).

 

I wish I had paid the original £20 as this has been a big worry and hassle, but I just ignored most of the letters after reading stuff online.

 

Obviously I want to dispute the whole of the claim but do I have a decent defence?

I would cite the fact that the only reason the ticket was not displayed was that it could not be stuck to the window.

 

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Name of the Claimant : Excel Parking Services

 

Claimants Solicitors: Unknown

 

Date of issue – 08 July 2020

 

Date for AOS - 27 July 2020?

 

Date to submit Defence - 07 august - corrected DX

 

What is the claim for – 

1. The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.The defendant's vehicle was identified in the Brewery St car park on 2.7.18 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely parked without clearly displaying a valid ticket/permit.

 

3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

5.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge

notice will be issued, and the defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

6.The claimant seeks recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

 

 

What is the value of the claim? £185.00

[BankFodder]

Send the AOS immediately with intention to defend.  Monitor this thread for a fuller reply lster or tomorrow

[dx100uk]

no you dont wish you had paid it...

 

why did you ignore the letter of claim please?

do you still have the ticket?

i suspect this carpark is owned by the railway company so byelaws over rule their silly contract...

if they even have one

...............................

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

[dx100uk]

 

 

[Slaughter64]

Thanks dx,

 

The claim form only arrived yesterday, I wasn't even sure it was an official document as it has photocopied logos/crests etc.

 

Yes, I still have the ticket.

 

Do you think I have a decent defence or will it just blow over anyway?

[dx100uk]

you have the ticket

slam dunk win for you.

 

let them waste their money.

 

follow the guide i posted

and DO NOT miss your defence filing date no matter what.

 

note your corrected defence filing date please too.

 

dx

 

[Slaughter64]

I'm having problems on the MCOL site, I tried to register but it sends me to Gov Gateway sign in and I can't remember my details, it's ages since 

I used it. Am I doing something wrong, is there a workaround or do I have to post it?

[dx100uk]

you have till sunday week to AOS

 

can you not use the lost details link?

 

https://www.access.service.gov.uk/login/signin/creds

 

get the CPR off today!

do MCOL later.

 

can i also confirm you ignore the letter of claim from PE about a month or so ago too?

 

dx

 

[Slaughter64]

It takes a few days to sort out the Gateway details if you've lost them apparently. I'll look in to the CPR.

 

I don't know what you mean about the letter of claim. I did receive something from about Excel a few months ago maybe,

is that what you mean? I just thought it was the usual empty threats, I'm not even sure if I keep it.

[honeybee13]

If it was a letter before claim/action it should have been headed as that. It would be worth having a look to see if you kept it so we can see if it was a threatogram or not.

 

HB

[Slaughter64]

Just checked, yes I did receive a Letter Before Claim, I put it aside just thinking it was another threat without looking at it properly. 

 

I presume there's no point answering it now, does this change things?

[dx100uk]

just print the CRP and post today 

the rest can wait

 

dx

 

[ericsbrother]

there is a beta version of the MCOL that doesnt need your old gateway password, it uses just address end claim details. Do a web trawl for it and give it a go if you can.

 

Now the exact wording of the contract will tell us if there is actually such a term, Excel are sloppy in that respect and will say that different wording means the same thing when the contract has to stipulate the exact temr you are supposed to have breached, not just claim something they didn't actually offer.

 

As for the location, yes, have a good look at the land and see if you can tell if it is railway land and then check the location against the postcode and the like, the POFA states that to create ANY liability the land must be (uniquely) identifiable so Is the car park in Brewery st called that and is it the only car park in Brewery St for example?

 

Display of tickets is an odd thing as it is just proof that you have paid and that is the bit that creates the contract, not where the receipt for payment is kept. they know this but are trying to chisel money out of people when there is no real reason to do so.

 

With council parking there are precedents with fallen tickets that work generally against you but they are covered by slightly different terms, statute law and proper conditions printed on the ticket machine.

 

Now for Excel to get their claim to stick they needed to have listed all of the conditions in equal size print on the ticket machine in the order they apply or importance in unambiguous wording to win a claim and even then they have to prove that somehow you have cost them money by failing to display it properly, which is almost impossible.

 

In short, you have a lot going for you if you do your defence research carefully and write it all down in a nice coherent manner with reference to previous cases that went against the parking co's as persuasive argument.

 

just had a quick look on goggleyes at the entrance to the land.

The image is from Jul 2018 so you pull this up and get some screen shots.

 

The big sign at the entrance doesn't say anything about paying Excel a fortune if you break any conditions because there aren't any offered so if that is the contract then you cant have breached it and certainly cant owe them any money.

 

Also when you appealed did you say your wife was driving?

If so they can't sue you as you have no liability once you have named the driver.

Please clarify this point as it is very important as they are most likely suing the wrong person

 

The smaller signs around the site are unreadable without a microscope so it all boils down to what is written on the payment machine as you will be deemed to have accepted those terms by feeding the machine.

 

It doesn't appear to be railway land so ask the council or look at the planning portal as the place is under development for applications and that should include Excel's signs

[Slaughter64]

Hey, thanks for that. Yes, the wife had borrowed the car that day, definitely, but I don't think it was clear on the photos on their site,

so I'm not sure how I can prove that I wasn't driving.

 

I'll definitely try and check out that beta, what do they make it so difficult just to register.

[dx100uk]

its not for you to prove you weren't driving..wake up.

 

 

[Slaughter64]

I'm struggling with how to actually word my defence, I need to 'state which allegations in the particulars of the claim I deny and my reasons for doing so'.

The claim form says that 'if you fail to deny an allegation it may taken that you admit it'.

 

Here is their claim in full:

 

1. The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.The defendant's vehicle was identified in the Brewery St car park on 2.7.18 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely parked without clearly displaying a valid ticket/permit.

 

3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

5.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge

notice will be issued, and the defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

6.The claimant seeks recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

All I can really dispute is that it WAS 'parked clearly displaying a ticket', albeit only for a minute or two before it was blown off, due to no self adhesive part to it.

[dx100uk]

no you don't reply like that...

 

use our search top right 

or the enhanced google box here too.

 

you need the 3 - 5 line simple defence

on 100's of pcn claimform threads here already

 

dx

 

[Slaughter64]

Ok, the CPR has been sent and I filed the AOS today.

 

Sorry, I can't find the actual wording for the 3-5 line simple defence , is it on a sticky somewhere?

[honeybee13]

We don't have a sticky with a defence because cases differ from each other.

 

The best thing is to use our search facility and look for other cases with Excel that are similiar to yours. And we have a thread of PPC successes for caggers.

 

HB

[Slaughter64]

Hi, I'm struggling to find the 3-5 line simple defence mentioned that would be appropriate for my case. I'm either getting old or stupid or both, but I seem to get word blindness when it

comes to legalese.

 

Could some kind person take a few minutes to spell out what I need to put as my defence please, if I have any? I'd be quite happy to make another donation, would rather it go to you guys than them!

[dx100uk]

use our enhanced google search box

claimform pcn.

 

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:3134625398&q=claimform pcn&oq=claimform pcn&gs_l=partner-generic.12...93366.97708.0.99748.13.13.0.0.0.0.130.761.12j1.13.0.csems%2Cnrl%3D13...0.4366j1676058j13...1.34.partner-generic..8.5.342.EziIw99bgF4

 

dx

 

[AndyOrch]

Post 88 on wards in the following thread will give you some idea.

 

 

[dx100uk]

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:3134625398&q=claimform pcn&oq=claimform pcn&gs_l=partner-generic.12...93366.97708.0.99748.13.13.0.0.0.0.130.761.12j1.13.0.csems%2Cnrl%3D13...0.4366j1676058j13...1.34.partner-generic..8.5.342.EziIw99bgF4

[FTMDave]

Have a look at posts 90-92 on the thread Andyorch linked to, tweak the defence according to your own situation, and post up a draft here.  Don't worry if it's not perfect the first time, that's what we're here for!

 

You certainly need to stick in a bit about the parking charge being paid for.

 

Two questions.  Did you ever find out if this is railway land covered by bye-laws?  Did you tell the fleecers your wife was driving?

 

 

[Slaughter64]

Ok, I'll take a look at those, thanks.

 

I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned my wife was driving, but haven't they covered themselves with 'At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver'. It was my car.

 

No, I've not found out about the land, where would I find this?