Minster Baywatch ANPR PCN - Cotswold, Lakeside Car Park GL7 5LU

[Kaleidosky]

I received a Parking Charge Notice for being in a car park for 20 minutes and wanted to get feedback from experienced people on how effective this defense tactic might be if they wish to take me to a small claims court. The invoice they sent was Parking fee covering visit duration was not paid in full.

 

I received the first letter but as soon as a 2^nd letter arrives, my plan is to respond to them and say I never received the 1^st letter to begin with so I had no opportunity to rectify the issue. I would say that I have no memory of this taking place since it was over a month ago and they only have a picture of my car entering and exiting but not my face (unless they have other cameras that I am not aware of).

 

I did some shopping and was coming back from the store, I decided to find somewhere to park by the lakeside which was quite a challenge since a lot of public areas are blocked off in this lockdown.  I went to this location to park up and was planning to stay here for an hour. I then realised that I couldn’t find my wallet anywhere. Checked my shopping bags, called the store to see if I left it there, checked under the car seats etc. Still frustrated and panicking because it had my house keys inside the wallet, I decided to leave knowing that I could not stay here and everywhere else was blocked off.

 

To be honest, I would pay the £60 fine just to get these scammers off my back and not add anymore unnecessary stress but I had to close my business down and have no money to pay it off anyway.

 

·       Should I tell them that I will only pay for the time I stayed there and not the unjustified amount of £100?

·       Is it best to send them a letter and not provide them with an email address?

·       Could losing my wallet be down to my poor negligence and so the judge will rule it out?

 

Will keep this thread updated with uploaded letters and their responses soon as it arrives.

[dx100uk]

you don't appeal....

 

please complete this:

 

 

[Gick]

You do not lie to them in the way that you suggest above, otherwise you lose the moral high ground and sink to their level. Should it end up in the small claims court you would be on a very sticky wicket using such subterfuge.

 

As this is the UK, the word is defence, despite the predictive text that may appear.

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum. Given the incompetence of the major parking companies and their inability to comply with the Laws relating to parking and form a contract with motorists it is probably best to leave them to lie in Court-they are so much better at it than any of us.

 

If you complete the details asked for by Dx100uk I am sure that you can beat them honestly. And that is so much better than winning by subterfuge.

 

In any event please do not contact them especially not before you have received their second PCN which often doesn't comply with POFA . And once it doesn't comply, there is no need to contact them at all. And regardless of the second PCN, do not respond in any way to them unless they send you a Letter of Claim [which won't be for months, if at all] and then you hit them between the eyes with all the reasons why their claim is a total scam.

 

The reason not to appeal is that it can weaken your defence and they will alter their line of attack if they know your reasons too early. And because they have so much wrong with their way of operating, there is no reason to pay he a penny. In a recent case, a Judge ripped that particular parking company to shreds and we all waiting with bated breath for the follow up which should be due out in the not too distant future. [EG possible jail sentences and or fines for the parking company which might also include the solicitors involved being punished too. Interesting days.

 

PS plese don't forget to answer the questions on post 2 so that we can show you where your particular bunch of crooks have got it wrong.

[Kaleidosky]

Thank you all for the help and the wise words from everyone here.

I feel a lot less anxious now that I have descent options around to resolve this with.

 

 

 

*decent

[dx100uk]

please complete the sticky then we have all the correct info to advise you properly

do not ignore a letter of claim.

 

dx

 

[Kaleidosky]

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

1 Date of the infringement

09-06-2020
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

16-06-2020

 

3 Date received

16-06-2020
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Y
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Y
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

N
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

N
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Minster Baywatch
 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Cotswold, Lakeside Car Park GL7 5LU
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA
 

MinsterBaywatch.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Thank you for the information, it will help us to advise you.

 

Is this car park just for Cotswold customers or are there other shops there as well please? Assuming you mean a Cotswold shop.

 

I've edited your thread title a bit.

 

HB

[Kaleidosky]

Hi HoneyBee13,

 

Thank you for your time - The nearest cornerstop is about a mile away in South Cerney village.

 

Kal

[dx100uk]

its a car park at the side of a lake

 

simplest thing to do is ignore them until or unless you get a letter of claim.

 

then comeback here.

 

i will gather you didn't buy a ticket at all?

 

dx

 

[honeybee13]

On 08/07/2020 at 15:28, Kaleidosky said:

Hi HoneyBee13,

 

Thank you for your time - The nearest cornerstop is about a mile away in South Cerney village.

 

Kal

 

Apologies, misunderstanding on my part. I was thinking of a shop called Cotswold. Please ignore me.

 

HB

 

Hi dx100uk, 

 

OK will do, I'll wait for that possible stage to come and keep this updated when I can.

 

I didn't buy a parking ticket.

 

Kal

 

...

 

 

 

Way off topic but I love your profile pic, gonna listen now and allow Jeff Beck to send shivers down my spine in his epic WGW P3 solo 

 

 

[dx100uk]

the 5.1 is better for that solo from jeff

 

if you go that way again

get pictures of all the signs inc the small print

where they are 

and the machine ones.

and the view from the public road 

[ericsbrother]

check your dates for the receipt of their letter, it appears as though you got it before it was posted.

 

I have looked on goggleyes and there is no signage at the entrance to the land from the public highway so how are you supposed to know about any conditions for parking there?

 

typical Minster, they are useless when it comes to their signage.

I bet the wording of the sign is pants as well, assuming you can find one.

 

Now if t was P&D the signs aren't contracts either, the blurb on the m/c is and you only accept when you feed the meter so the signs are just "invitations to treat".

 

Ignore their letter for the moment but do go and get some pictures of the signs and equipment at the site of you can, including the cameras on poles they use to do ANPR capture

[Kaleidosky]

Hi ericsbrother,

 

Will certainly take pictures around the site and everywhere related to the area in a few days time. 

 

A year ago, it was completely free and I have been coming down this place for years before Minster took over the land. I would even pick up the rubbish if there was any, due to wildlife and a swans nest nearby.

 

Probably irrelevant in my defence but last time I was there, the bins were overfilled and there was rubbish blowing around the car park so they're certainly not maintaining the place. 

 

Kal

[ericsbrother]

Minster didn't take over the land, they wangled their way into being given a contract to "manage" the site, usually by misrepresenting what exactly they do for their money.

 

The land is owned by someone and often then managed by a property management co who get a free golf day or similar for signing on the dotted line. Chances are there is no chain of authority back to the actual landowner.

 

have a look on the council planning portal and see if there is anything that comes up for this location as far as applications etc.

 

Minster are supposed to get PP for their signage etc, planning law for ANPR cameras on poles is different than that for CCTV on buildings so again chances are no permission and that means you cant enter into a contract even if you wanted to.

[Kaleidosky]

Here is my 2nd letter from Minster Baywatch, arrived last week on 15th July. I haven't responded to Minster.

 

I will also upload all the photos that I took this morning on a single canvas.  

 

Update - Just checked the Cotswold Council Planning Permission applications and nothing is coming up about Minster Baywatch let alone anything about ANPR cameras on poles.

 

I'm going to provide all the information collected and take it to my local press and council to see how that plays out.

Would this be a good idea and would it be better if I wait till I receive a Letter of Claim first? 

 

Kal

2nd_letter_and_images.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

it isn't surprising that there are no planning permissions.

 

Once the contracts have been signed between the Minster and the land owners have been completed only then can the signage and cameras be submitted to the Council for approval. Since that can take several weeks and the Council may decide that they are unhappy with the wording on some of the signs and the length of time that motorists are allowed to stay putting approval further back, it is much quicker to ignore the need for permission and go get started straight away.

 

The good thing about it is that it helps your case no end.

First it is a criminal offence, which means they have failed at the first hurdle of their Code of Conduct- that they must comply with all laws relating to the running of the car park.

 

It also calls into question their ability to be able to collect data from the DVLA.

 

They are in breach of  the Town and Country [advertisements] Regulations 2007 by not having the necessary permission though it does not appear to carry too much weight sometimes in Court despite the fact that it is illegal not to have permission and a contract cannot be formed from an illegal act. However the offence is also covered by 

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

Section 5 Misleading Actions

[3] ]b]  b)it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply  with

It may be that it is this Law that carries more weight in Court than the Council Regulation and is worth stressing in your defence. it does carry a sfine or imprisonment which may mean that Minster will discontinue your case to avoid the risk of finding out, plus if a Judge did take action because of that Act it could  anger of all the other parking crooks being hit with the same Act.

[ericsbrother]

as they are members of the BPA they will be truly dogknotted at court for not following the BPA CoP.

IPC members join them because they dont have to obey the law as Will and John have superpowers

[Kaleidosky]

Just to give an update on this case, I have never received any further information from Minster Baywatch. I never responded to them either.

[dx100uk]

thank you updating

just keep everything safe they have 6yrs in total

[Kaleidosky]

6 years... damn that surprised me.. if I do hear anything else I will let you and everyone on this thread know about it. My defense would be they didn't have planning permission at the time of the fine but I'll just go with the flow and see how it goes.

[dx100uk]

fine?

 

dx

[Kaleidosky]

Just had a Letter Before Claim notice from Gladstone arrive a couple of days ago.

What would you advise I do next?

 

I wanted to see if this is the right time to respond back and dispute the debt as well as what to include in my response.

 

Should I include that ANPR cameras do not have planning permission?

 

Should I question there representatives Right of Audience at the hearing?

 

 

Gladstone Letter of Claim.pdf

 

I found a template on the MSE forum and I plan on using this on their gladstones solicitors online Reply Form. 

 

[MSE TEMPLATE REMOVED - dx)

[FTMDave]

You certainly need to reply as a Letter Before Claim is a formal notice of intention to start court proceedings - you need to let them know they would have a huge battle on if they were stupid enough to do court.

 

 

[dx100uk]

ericsbrother snotty letter time

MSE temple removed

please dont use that.

 

dx