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ODorM

CEL ANPR PCN - Car Park at 2 Lyndhurst Road, Christchurch, BH23 4SB - already appealed-refused - Help

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Hi there, i looking for for some help and advice.

 

We have been in receipt of a Parking Charge Notice from Civil Enforcement Ltd for overstaying at KFC car park by 19 minutes.

We have so far (regretfully now reading these forums) appeal to both CEL and POPLA and been rejected both times and CEL are now doing they're usual bullying chase letters.

 

However I think our situation is a bit unique and need some advice. 

Honestly had no idea that this car park had a time limit as we never saw the signs that said so and were shocked we received the letter in the post.

We only overstayed by 19 minutes so really don't think 100 pounds is at all justifiable and we were in the restaurant the entire time and made several purchases while catching up with friends. On the evening in questions is is very very dark and heavy rainfall, with the car park being poorly lit which is why i never saw the signs about the time limit. 

 

We initially tried to appeal directly with CEL which got rejected and then again through POPLA which also got rejected, on the grounds that the signs are not visible at night as there is inadequate lighting. 

 

However we were also there meeting friends who were in the car park for the same time as us and also received a PCN from CEL for a similar amount of time exceeded. Their appeal was rejected by CEL however accepted by POPLA and they did not have to may the charge - even through they're defence was for the same reasons that couldn't see the signs . To me this just shows the outcome of the appeal just depends on the individual POPLA assessor and their mood that day and just decided ours wasn't good. 

 

However this makes we me want to ignore the CEL correspondence even more as why should i now have to pay the charge when someone else didn't for the exact some contravention and circumstances?

 

Surely if CEL ever took this as far as small claims , the fact that my friends appeal was accepted would really make it in my favour and CEL wouldn't have a leg to stand on?

 

I would like to contact CEL directly to explain this to them but it seems there is no method to do so. 

 

I would just like some advice on what to do next?

 

Ive seen many many posts where it seems the best options is to not pay up

- but is there anyway to get CEL off our backs and to cancel the charge?

 

Thanks

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

25/02/2020
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

29/02/2020
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Date received

30/02/2020

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Not sure i got an NTK just  PCN letter

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

CEL provided evidence online showing the time stamps of the vehicle entering and leaving the car park. 
 

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Yes
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

Rejected

 

7 Who is the parking company?

Civil Enforcement Ltd
 

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Car Park at 2 Lyndhurst Road, Christchurch, BH23 4SB
 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA
 

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

Received our first chase up letter from CEL now demanding we pay 140 pounds within 14 days before they well ' instruct third party debt collection agents and costs will escalate' . 

 

 

 

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had to remove your uploads

you must redact all reg and ref numbers too!

 

have a look at the original council granted free parking time - i bet you'll find it's not 2 but 3hrs and no-one bar them can change that.

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ODorM said:

 

3 Date received

30/02/2020

 

 

Doubtful.

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Thanks for filling in the forum sticky and well done on reading up.  The more info. we all take in, the more we know what the real legal position is and how to fight sharks like CEL.

 

As you'll have seen, CEL are one of the most dishonest and greediest of the PPCs.  If you had indisputable proof that your car was on Mars at the time, they'd find a way to reject your appeal!  Sadly POPLA has become more & more useless, as your experience shows.  Instead of managing the car park in a professional manner, it's highly likely that CEL don't illuminate the signs at night deliberately in order to catch out motorists like yourself.

 

The good news is that the only person who can make you pay this "debt" is a judge, after a court case.  So from now on ignore any begging letters from CEL and/or their rent-a-threat DCAs, but do not ignore a Letter Before Action/Claim which is a formal notice of intention to start court proceedings.  However, don't waste your time while ignoring them, build a case.  Like dx says, look up the planning permission.  If the KFC is local to you, go back in the evening and get pix of their pathetic signage.  Please post up what you wrote in your appeal too.

 

As a belt & braces approach, get on to KFC and demand they cancel the ticket.  Show all the proof you were a genuine customer and point out that you stayed an extra 19 minutes because you were consuming more food & drink!  However, what we often find is that the bod who runs the local branch often doesn't have much power, so don't faff around.  If the local branch don't cancel within 48 hours get on to to the area manager, and if you get no joy there in 48 hours go to CEO level.

 

It's highly likely that if you had complained to KFC straight away and ignored CEL's kangaroo court procedure that the matter would have been resolved there & then, but hey, what is done is done and you still have a great chance of seeing off these fleecers.


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CEL dont follow the BPA code of conduct so they should automatically lose any court claim against a keeper but you appealed and that actually changes the rules to offer you little protection via the BPA or the POFA 2012.

 

However, CEL are just greedy crooks so still dont stand a chance of winning a defended court claim. If the place is nearby go there and get some decent pictires of the entrance to the land and any signage there ( or lack of signage) and also pictures of any different signs that are about the place. make a note of thei5r size and position, for example,  hidden behind a wheelie bin and you take a picture of the bin as well.

 

Now from waht I can see on google there is a sign saying free parking terms apply and the absence of the terms on that offer makes anything on any other sign not a contract un;ess you expressly wnat to be bound by them. Look up "invitation to treat", it is a common mistake that the parking co's make, they dont know the difference and then harass and bully people to pay for their own incompetence.

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