Havering PCN Misstep, how do I avoid paying?

[Hopeful Williams]

Hi,

 

I received two PCNs in October 2019 from Havering Council. All the below applies to both PCNs, as the correspondences were at the same time:

 

Fast forward to February 2020, I file witness statements on grounds that I made representations within 28 days but did not receive a rejection notice.

 

The TEC cancelled charges.

 

Havering write to me asking for supporting evidence of representations that I made.

 

I email them screenshots with timestamps of the representations.

 

In early March Havering reply to me by email 'confirming receipt of email and both cases are now on hold pending an investigation.

Please allow time for a full response to be sent.'

 

Fast forward to 18th June Havering write to me the attached: 

 

 

Now, it seems as though the sender of this letter is not up to date with both cases and is unaware of the TEC's decisions, as well as the email correspondence.

 

My questions are, 1) What should I do next? and

2) Is there a way to use their misstep to avoid paying for the PCN entirely?

 

Hi dx100uk, sorry to write here, aware it'll be taken down soon. Wanted to know whether my thread is unacceptable for the site? It still hasn't been answered yet, though others have. No aggro wanted, just wondering.

 

Hi BankFodder, sorry to write here, aware it'll be taken down soon. Wanted to know whether my thread is unacceptable for the site? It still hasn't been answered yet, though others have. No aggro wanted, just wondering

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

you have created your own thread (this one)

 

i'm sure someone with relevant knowledge will post soon

 

 

 

 

[Hopeful Williams]

Hi,

 

I received two PCNs in October 2019 from Havering Council. All the below applies to both PCNs, as the correspondences were at the same time:

 

Fast forward to February 2020, I file witness statements on grounds that I made representations within 28 days but did not receive a rejection notice.

 

The TEC cancelled charges.

 

Havering write to me asking for supporting evidence of representations that I made.

 

I email them screenshots with timestamps of the representations.

 

In early March Havering reply to me by email 'confirming receipt of email and both cases are now on hold pending an investigation. Please allow time for a full response to be sent.'

 

Fast forward to 18th June Havering write to me the attached: 

Havering Charge Certificate.pdf

 

Now, it seems as though the sender of this letter is not up to date with both cases and is unaware of the TEC's decisions, as well as the email correspondence.

 

My questions are, 1) What should I do next? and 2) Is there a way to use their misstep to avoid paying for the PCN entirely?

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

threads merged 

please keep to one thread per issue.

 

dx

 

[Hopeful Williams]

Any help please? I need to respond by a certain time.

[dx100uk]

you need surely..... to inform them, with proof that TEC cancelled the charges.

if you have this evidence in WRITING 

i suggest you copy the letter and fwd it to council with your reply.

 

why do you think you need to pay a pcn if it's been cancelled....

 

 

[Hopeful Williams]

The TEC cancelled the charges not the PCN. But the council did not acknowledge this, they're normally meant to write asking you to pay the initial PCN again, instead they jumped straight into the charges. I'm wondering if from this misstep I can avoid paying altogether.

[stu007]

Hi

 

If possible could you Upload  the TEC Decision to Cancel  the PCN/PCN's (in PDF redacted) as we need to be clear the Decision of TEC was for both PCN's and not just one PCN as the other would still be live. (possibly why the LA are asking for evidence) 

[Hopeful Williams]

Thanks Stu, links to both decisions: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov3oiq95la3iyw0/IMG-20200706-WA0000.jpg?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob9mx8le7464lnc/IMG-20200706-WA0002.jpg?dl=0

 

And here is a link to the rest of the docs: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dqre76b20sjcqgr/AAAIHc56u2gVkP4Y7Nx6xLWga?dl=0

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hopeful Williams

[Jamberson]

You have included two images of notices from Traffic Enforcement Centre stating the Order for Recovery and Charge Certificate has been revoked. However the PCN numbers are obscured on both.

 

I am therefore assuming they are each for a different PCN - if that assumption is wrong, then what follows will be wrong too.

 

When the CC and OR are revoked, the Council should refer the case to the adjudicator. What they sometimes do is issue a new Notice to Owner. You have not included any such documents, but you should find out from the Council ASAP whether they issued them. A simple question to them - both PCN numbers please confirm the date the most recent NTO was issued.

 

Assuming they didn't issue them - and again, it's an assumption - they have not followed due process. You don't have a right to have the discount reinstated but you do have a right to appeal, and their failure has closed off any route to adjudication should you wish to pursue it.

 

Your course of action now is to wait for the next Order for Recovery and file another Witness Statement for each PCN, on the grounds that you did not receive a Notice to Owner.

 

In the meantime, write a polite letter to the Council's parking people explaining they have not followed due process, since they were instructed to revoke the OR and CC on each PCN but have neither re-issued an NTO nor referred to adjudication, depriving you of a route to appeal to the adjudicator.

 

Tell them you are aware this is procedural impropriety and intend to taken them through adjudication on these grounds should you need to.

 

Then politely suggest they cancel both PCNs to save themselves the time and costs, fighting a case which will inevitably be ruled against them.

 

They may agree to do that. If not, file the Witness Statements and then contact the adjudicator yourself. You should win in the end.

[Hopeful Williams]

Jamberson, you are a legend. Thank you. If you don't mind, could you please list the order of action following receiving a PCN? Because I'm seeing NTO, OR, adjudicator, and I don't know what follows what and in what order. Even if it's a simple list of the name of stages, I would greatly appreciate that and it would make the entrie thing make more sense. Either way, thank you.

[Jamberson]

Sure.

 

1. PCN issued (usually onto vehicle windscreen)

2. 28 days later, Notice to Owner (NTO) by post - the discount is forfeited by now, but you can still appeal

3. 28 days later (I think) Charge Certificate (CC) - right to appeal expires when this is issued

4. Order for Recovery (OR) - this opens the possibility of making a Witness Statement, to get the case set back to NTO stage, and back into the appeals process.

 

The adjudication stage is available if you appeal during the NTO stage, and your appeal is rejected. However the legislation states that if an OR is accepted, that should compel the council to refer the case the adjudicator straight away - but usually they don't. It doesn't adversely affect you if they don't, but they must at least issue an NTO, so you can appeal and then if unsuccessful go to the adjudicator by your own choice.

 

It's fairly important that they open this route to you either way - but from what we know of this case so far, they accepted the OR then sent you a letter, then a CC. No route to adjudication. I can't see this as anything other than procedural impropriety, which would usually lead to a complete cancellation of the whole case. You need to put this to the council now and see what they do. If nothing, follow it through to the adjudictor after submitting another OR.