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    • Hi all,   I had an Lloyds bank overdraft in 2019 with the overdraft amount being £1350 maxed out by December 2019. I had left the account alone for two/three months as the overdraft fees were basically ruining me(Adding to the £1350 overdraft), i then received a letter from Lloyds asking me to phone them regarding this debt (This was January 2020). I had phoned Lloyds and we went through an expenditure on the phone and the outcome was i was to make payment of £30 towards the debt for 6 months and then after the 6 months is up they would get in touch with me to discuss further options. (There was mention in January that after the 6 months there was a possibility of a loan to pay of the remaining balance and then you make payments against the loan for however many years/months you choose.) It is worth noting that whilst i was making these payments they seized all interest on my account.    I have made every payment since January and have gradually managed to reduce my overdraft down to £1200. My problem is that the bank have phoned as it now at that stage for re-discussion, they have asked me to go through another expenditure and i panicked and over estimated things to make it look like i had less income; not loads but i was in a deficit of -£47. Due to this they said they could not allow me to take out a loan as it would only mean i was borrowing more to pay of debt which they would not allow. It then got passed over to another team and he said that i only had two options. Take a one month break with all interest etc stopped and this will allow me to seek financial advice elsewhere, or they said they would default the payment and i can then pay the minimum i can afford but the default would stay on my credit file for 6 years. He mentioned that they wouldn't take any money of me to help clear the debt as i had a deficit of -£47 and that shows i financially cannot afford to do that option. I have looked at the effects a default can make to your credit file and it impacts it tremendously.   Lloyds asked me how i cover my expenses every month and i mentioned that my Grandparents help me out sometimes with cash flow. So the gentleman at Lloyd's suggested going away and asking my grandparents if they could contribute money to me to help aid in my debt. so that he could go back to the original team(I think collections team) and say she now has this ____ He is due to phone me on Thursday (Tomorrow). I can afford to contribute probably £50-£80 a month but it would mean cutting down on fuel and some other expenses.   Its worth noting that i have a credit card with Nationwide maxed to £1000 too and this will soon be at the stage where they charge interest and i cannot afford to clear this either. Is this worth writing to them about?   Is there anyone that can advise me on what to do to help me pay as little as i can and avoid the default PLEASE, any help is really REALLY appreciated.   Thank you all in advance.
    • In terms of whether or not this is a private sale, clearly it will be for a judge to decide. It seems to me that we have somebody here who bred a litter of puppies and has sold several of them or all of them at probably around £1200 each. I think that is very different from selling your own private second-hand car to get what you can for it in order, for instance, to buy another one. Anyway it's for the judge to decide. In terms of whether or not the seller is aware of the defects – if they are a private seller – all it really means is that they are not subject to sale of goods legislation so that a purchaser in a private sale does not have specific protections. After that you have to fall back onto the common law of contract and once again I think that the liabilities are reasonably strict and I still think that even in a private sale if you bought something with defects which was represented to you as being without defects then you would probably have a good case. In this case, the dog has been accompanied by a health certificate and I think that is as good as any kind of representation dog is without defects. I think we are coming to an altogether more interesting issue. Apparently the dental defect with this puppy is observable and could have been detected by any reasonably careful examination carried out by a reasonable professional. But apparently also there is the possibility that there may be a more complicated problem which could be addressed by work costing up to £2000. What I'd like to know is whether this more complicated problem is as a result of the failure to spot the initial problem. Even if the initial problem had been spotted, with this still be a possibility that this more complicated work would be necessary? I suppose what I'm getting to his that at what point does one decide that a defect is an unacceptable defect or simply a risk that comes with purchasing all animals and therefore could still be considered as "satisfactory" because it would meet the reasonable expectations of any reasonable pet owner. To put it bluntly: are we saying here that if you buy an animal is less than genetically perfect, that you are purchasing defective goods and you are entitled to a refund? Does this mean that all animal traders are obliged to ensure that all the animals they sell are genetically perfect? This is dangerous territory: eugenics.  
    • a dn can be issued even on one default payment.
    • I think I still remain to be convinced that a court would not find the seller's offer to take the puppy back and give the OP a full refund both reasonable and acceptable.   Ignoring that this is the sale of a puppy, isn't this more akin to the private sale of a second-hand car?   I don't really know what the phrase:  "I recently bought a puppy from a home breeder. They have never breed dogs before and aren't a licensed business" means.  Is this a business to consumer sale, or is it simply the opportunistic private sale of puppies from a domestic litter?  I think the OP needs to establish this because it's not clear to me - yet.   AIUI, if I as a private individual privately sold, say,  a car with umpteen non-apparent faults or defects with it, but I was honestly unaware of them and could not be expected to be aware of them, then I'm not liable for any breach of contract when those faults and defects manifest themselves to the buyer a week later.  Isn't that what worried private sellers of cars are told here when aggrieved purchasers threaten to sue them?  It's not immediately obvious to me why this is necessarily any different - unless this is clearly a business to consumer sale.   The OP also says:  "Our puppy was sold as having passed a full health check from Vets4Pets", and so far as I can see this isn't disputed.  Unless that health check revealed the dental problem the OP is now complaining about, but the OP never was shown it (seems unlikely that the seller would mention it but not make the results available), then I think the seller may well be entitled to rely on it.  What more could they do to ascertain the health of the puppy?   I think this is not necessarily a clear-cut claim, and from the way the OP describes the breeder I think the question whether this is a consumer sale or a private sale may not have a black or white answer.     1.  The OP mentions following advice to buy puppies bred from a "home pet" (or similar such wording).  Not clear if this was the case here, but if it was, doesn't this suggest a private rather than consumer or trade sale?   2.  The OP also suggests that the health of the puppy was misrepresented, but is this necessarily correct?  They say the puppy was advertised as having had a "full health check", but that's not the same as saying the puppy was actually healthy.  And if it was a private sale, is the seller required to declare health problems they are aware of if they aren't specifically asked?
    • Ok,    I thought it may of helped as their DN stated 2 installments in arrears when it was issued on 10/2/17, but it would infact only have been 1 installment overdue 17/01/17.   I will keep to what I already know and stop over thinking further issues. 😁    
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beetlejuice01

Motor insurance claim against my son. Need advice.

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My son was involved in a car accident whilst driving a courtesy car. 

 

My son was having his own vehicle repaired. The same company that was doing the repair offered him a courtesy car whilst his own car was being repaired. My son had agreed to buy the courtesy car from the company when his own vehicle had been repaired and sold. 

 

The courtesy car was insured under the companies own trader insurance policy whilst my son was using it for the few days that it took for them to repair his own car.

 

My son collided with another vehicle due to a third party vehicle pulling out from her driveway causing my son to swerve and he collided with an oncoming vehicle. The accident was captured on CCTV. The third party claimed that it was not her fault because she claimed both vehicles that collided, were speeding. She refused to give her name or her insurance details. She is not aware that the accident was captured on CCTV. She had left the accident scene before the CCTV footage came to light. We have pictures of her and her vehicle and we obviously know her address.

 

The CCTV clearly shows that neither vehicle was speeding and that the accident was caused be her, pulling out from her driveway.

 

At the scene of the accident. The other driver wanted my sons personal details and insurance details. My son phoned the company who supplied the courtesy car to get the insurance details. The company immediately went online and cancelled their insurance policy, so that no claim could be issued against them.

Now the other drivers insurance company is pursuing my son for the cost of the claim that they have paid out to their client.

 

My son did have insurance on his own vehicle that was under repair but that policy only covers him for his own car.

 

This is really unfair as the vehicle was insured at the time of the accident but they now refuse to become involved in any claim against them.

 

What is even more unfair is that my son has had to pay the company 6k for the vehicle but can only get back 2.5k because it was badly damaged.

 

Can anyone advise what to do here.

 

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Hello and welcome to CAG, I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

 

People should be along later to advise you about this, please bear with us until they're able to get here. :)

 

Best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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please monitor this thread for a more full reply later on. However, I have to say that I'm getting a bit lost on the story, what car was being driven when when the centre of. Position of the company. I'm afraid that I'm finding it a bit of a garble.

 

maybe you could have a look at the story and the way you have told it and try telling it again maybe rather more sequentially. Also what is the value of the claim?


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  • My son was involved in a collision with a 2nd party because he was forced to swerve. A 3rd party had pulled out in front of him and this was captured on CCTV. The 3rd party refused to give their name or insurance details and left the scene of the accident.
  • My son was not driving his own vehicle which was under his own personal insurance policy. This policy only covers his own personal vehicle.
  • His own personal vehicle was being repaired at the time of the accident.
  • The company that was repairing his own personal vehicle, supplied him with a courtesy vehicle, whilst his vehicle was being repaired. It was insured under their traders policy.
  • There was an agreement in place to purchase the vehicle that was being used as a courtesy vehicle. When his own vehicle was repaired and sold.
  • When my son contacted the company to notify them of the accident, whilst driving their courtesy car. They did not give him the insurance details and cancelled their own traders insurance policy.

 

As a result, my son has no insurance because

 

(1) his own personal insurance did not cover any other vehicle other than his own and did not cover the courtesy car that he was driving.

(2) The company that supplied the courtesy car cancelled the insurance policy that covered the vehicle after learning about the accident.

(3) he has no insurance policy to pursue the 3rd party that caused the accident.

The 2nd party involved in the accident has been paid out by his own insurance company. Now this same insurance company is asking my son to pay almost £2500.00, which is the sum of money that they have paid out to their client.

 

Hope this clarifies the situation.

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Thank you. I haven't had an opportunity to look at it carefully – but I do understand that he was lent a car by a commercial company and that the car was insured but then mysteriously the company cancel the insurance after they became aware that there had been accident.
Is this correct?

You should send the company an SAR immediately. Do it tomorrow morning. What is the name of the company?


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Have you got any of the details now of the third party? Presumably you have the registration number from the CCTV. Do you know who they are?
 

And also, why isn't your son doing this? Why has he left it to you?


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Posted (edited)

Yes the company cancelled the insurance policy whilst my son was still at the scene of the accident. He phoned them to ask for the insurance details.

Yes we have some details of the 3rd party. We know the address and her registration number. She lives 100 yards from my home.

The 2nd party lives 50 yards from my home. The accident happened at the end of our street. So its all local. The cctv footage was given to us by another neighbour.

Dad's always help their sons when they can.

 

He has tried to contact the company who owned the courtesy car. All he gets is threats from them that if he pursues a claim against them. They will pursue him for 6k of excess on their policy.

Edited by beetlejuice01
added info

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Thank you. So what is the name of the company? What are you trying to protect them.

 

I think you should start doing some quite research to discover the name of the third party.

also have you received these threats from the company in writing? if you have them please will you post them up here in scanned PDF format.

 

in terms of your son, I think you would be helping him or if you allowed him to take responsibility for this and that he started to deal with it directly. There will be letters which have to be written, legal threats which will have to be made and eventually maybe a legal claim will have to be started and it will be in his name and he will have to do it. 

 

you will learn a useful approach and also gain transferable skills. There is no downside

 


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also, please can you describe the damage and tell us the value of it. Presumably you have had it professionally assessed

 

Also have you taken photographs of everything.

Have you reported her to the police? It seems to me that she left the scene of an accident without giving any details.

 

See section 170 of the road traffic act 1988


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You should also approach DVLA to try and get her details. You may need to provide a copy of the CCTV.

 

https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla


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I dont know the damage cost to the courtesy vehicle. The total claim value that the 2nd party claimed for was just under £3500.00. His excess and salvage value of his car was just over £1000. That left them asking for £2500.00.

The 2nd party claimed for personal injury. Yet he refused treatment from an ambulance that attended the scene of the accident. He said he was not injured.

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Sorry i dont know the name of the company. Other than they are an Asian car sales and repair company.

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Well it may have been a latent injury but equally it could be a try-on.

 

Have you got access to all all garage reports and medical reports etc?

 

 


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Just now, BankFodder said:

Well it may have been a latent injury but equally it could be a try-on.

 

Have you got access to all all garage reports and medical reports etc?

 

No we have just received a bill.

 

Just now, BankFodder said:

 

 

 

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Will surely if they lent you a courtesy car and you agreed to buy it from them, you must know who you're dealing with?

It's pretty extraordinary if you don't.

I think you should set about finding out.

 

You're going to have to start discovering a lot of information here.

 

it seems to me that you don't know the identity of the person who caused the accident.

 

You've received a bill without knowing anything about the damage has been caused or the quotations that might have been received or knowing whether in fact you're being cheated or whether they are trying to provide you with the cheapest quotation of several.

You don't seem to have any idea of the injury that is being claimed even though they are apparently claiming against you for this.

 

I'm afraid I'm a bit bewildered that you haven't begun researching and accumulated a complete file of evidence or information on everybody.

it seems to me that everybody else in this has got the ducks in a row and and you haven't started yet

You're going to have to do that. If you don't then you may as well give up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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When did all of this happen?


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I'm not saying my son doesn't know the name of the company. Just that I don't know it at this time.

When we were contacted by the 2nd party insurers. We gave them the details of the company that loaned the courtesy car. We also gave the details of the 3rd party along with the CCTV evidence.

We believed that the 2 insurance companies would sort it out between them. That's what insurance is for. You would like to think.

Its only now that we have received this bill, that we have found out about the cancelled insurance policy and they don't seem willing to pursue the 3rd party at all.

Maybe they think my son is an easy target. He does drive an expensive Car, so maybe they think he is loaded. The fact is that he saved his money to buy his Car and he works hard and long hours.

He can't pay the bill anyway. He got made redundant from his engineering job on friday due to lack of orders at his employers. Covid-19.

It happened at the beginning of the year

 

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Well the fact that your son has some vital information which you don't have and yet you're trying to conduct this discussion on his behalf has shown as very rapidly the kind of problems that arise from this.

Please get your son to engage with this forum by registering his own identity and start to give us the story.

 

In your first post you ended up asking what should you do.

 

to summarise the things that you should do from the post that I have made:

 

Contact DVLA and get the full details of the third party

carry out your own discrete research to get the full details of the third party

Get details of the injury which is being claimed for

get details of the damage to the vehicle which is being claimed for

Get the name of the company

Send the company in sar

Get your son to start engaging with this thread so that we are not talking to third parties all the time.

 

That lot for starters

 

 

 


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My son has spoken to a solicitor today to get some advice.

Basically, they are saying because the claim is a low value. It would be better to negotiate a settlement of the claim.

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This is the kind of lamentable advice I would expect from a normal solicitor. if you want to give in to this then go ahead and take that advice.

If you want to deal with it and take control and also get fully compensated for any damage that you have suffered then I suggest that you stick with this thread.

It's your choice but please don't make it too difficult for us. just because we try to help you free of charge, doesn't mean that what we do is not valuable to you. 

This is not some piece of social media

 


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Not what he wanted to hear because he feels he is blameless and has already lost £3500.00 by having to purchase the damaged Car and reselling it at a large loss.

However, he signed an agreement to purchase the car. So he has honoured his agreement. He didn't know about the cancelled insurance prior to paying them. So they have taken him for a mug.

I don't think he will give in to pay this bill. He can't pay it anyway.

It does seem that the insurer has taken the easy option to reimburse their client and then pursue my son for the costs.

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He will write a letter to the insurers asking for all the details you have mentioned.

He will be contacting the DVLA tomorrow to obtain the 3rd party details.

 

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I am pretty sure that the garage did not have any Insurance in force for the courtesy car and have made up the story of the the Insurance policy being cancelled.  If you checked with DVLA, I suspect they will confirm no Insurance was registered at the time of the accident.

 

As far as I  understand the Commercial Traders policies, they have to inform the Insurers of the car registrations they are looking to have Insured.   The policies are updated, as cars are sold and new cars bought.  

 

Your Son could go to the Police to advise them that the garage has provided a courtesy car that was not Insured.  The problem is that your Son should have checked that he was correctly Insured, before he drove the car.  So although the garage may be in hot water, so will your Son. 

 

Did the garage inform your Son the courtesy car was Insured BEFORE he drove it away ?  Or did he just assume that a garage would never provide a courtesy car with no Insurance ?

 

Why did your Son, have to buy the courtesy car ?  What legal obligation did your Son have to buy the car ?

 

Your Son has been totally stitched up here and he should have obtained advice straight away.  By taking actions which were not in his best interests, has ended him in a very difficult position.  It is now trying to dig his way out of it, which is not going to be easy.

 

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We'd like to know the name of the company please


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Yes the courtesy Car was insured. The Police attended the accident scene. A neighbour called them. The police confirmed that the vehicle was insured when they did their roadside details check. It was after that the company cancelled the cover for the vehicle. If it wasn't insured. I am sure the Police would have reported my son ,there and then. 

My son had agreed to buy the Car. The company did a deal with him that they would let him use the Car whilst his own vehicle was being repaired by them. He paid a fee to them for insurance on the vehicle until the end of the month. So it was being used as a courtesy Car initially but he had in effect agreed to buy the Car. The company had already sent off the paperwork to register the Car in my sons name even though he hadn't paid anything for it at that time.

My son intended to get his own Car repaired. Then sell the Car and pay for the new Car. They agreed a price of £6000.00.

As you can see. My son has done everything by the book. I don't normally go onto forums but i thought that it might help if we knew more on what to do.

I will find out the company name.

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