lowell PAPLOC now Claimform - Old Cap1 Debt notice still applicable?

[Badger91]

Hi
 

I have been following another post on this site and after requesting a cca agreement from the DCA, after 12 days of the DCA receiving the request the account goes into dispute if the agreement isn’t provided. The following letter is then issued:

 

(section 10 template removed - dx)

I am aware there have been changes since GDPR rules were introduced but I don’t know if this letter is still ok to use

 

Is there a newer letter I should be sending ? If so can anyone provide this please.

 

I have read that there is now 21 days to respond to the request, however this letter states 14 days. 

 

 

Kind regards

 

badger

 

[BankFodder]

Good question.

The letter is probably out of date and I don't know if it is still possible to send such a thing. I haven't updated myself either.

When I can tell you is that in the old days quite a few people send this letter and am afraid had zero effect. I'm sure that this was very often unlawful by the data processors – but I'm afraid that sending a letter simply gave a false comfort and probably nothing else.

It would certainly be worthwhile discovering if a section 10 letter is still a possibility and how it can be proceeded upon if it is ignored.

[AndyOrch]

Still valid.....

 

https://ico.org.uk/media/about-the-ico/policies-and-procedures/1873/section_10_guidance_for_staff.pdf

[Badger91]

Thanks for your reply’s, So should I change the title on the letter to 1998 and not 1980 ? Andyorc, The link you shared says it was published in 2012 but it’s says nothing regarding GDPR which I think was introduced in 2018. 
 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Badger91
Error

[AndyOrch]

No it remains the same....

[Badger91]

Ok one last thing, the letter states they have 14 days to comply with my request am I correct in saying this is now 21 days and is it working days. 

[AndyOrch]

21 calendar days.

[dx100uk]

but pointless letter tennis.

what do you think it will achieve.

 

won't nor can't stop them processing your data regardless to if/not a cca exists.

 

dx

[Badger91]

I would like them to follow the legislation guidelines, whether they do or not is another question, if it is a law that requires them to do so surely legal action can be taken if they should choose to carry on regardless. Otherwise what is the point of the act being in place.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Badger91

[dx100uk]

section 10 surely is to do with the processing of your data and if they have a right to do so.

 

a failed cca request, or more importantly the failure to produce the agreement nor the relevant T&C's you signed up to, which gave the OC rights to process your data , and thus the right to sell those right's on .... doesn't remove the fact you did give permission.

 

IMHO a section 10 notice, as has been debated 1000's of time here in our+10yrs existence, in this instance is silly letter tennis.

look at the date of the threads you are referring too and reading.  ..... the thoughts and the forum members have changed, and i also contend they were wrong even back then ...

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

The point of a section 10 notice....it allows a court claim if they fail comply...always has been...not intended as letter tennis...you give them warning....21 days if they fail to comply ...you sue....and use the DPA1980 as your prescribed legislation.

 

Andy

[Badger91]

If the credit agreement cannot be found how can they say I gave permission to process data without the agreement, if there is no agreement the debt becomes unenforceable, they cannot continue to damage my credit file and sell it on as its in dispute and unenforceable until the cca is found. That’s is my understanding 

[AndyOrch]

4 minutes ago, Badger91 said:

If the credit agreement cannot be found how can they say I gave permission to process data without the agreement, if there is no agreement the debt becomes unenforceable, they cannot continue to damage my credit file and sell it on as its in dispute and unenforceable until the cca is found. That’s is my understanding 

 

 

But dont use it for the above reason...you will fail and suffer costs.

[Badger91]

If the cca is found then I will pay the balance as soon as it is provided,  if I am disputing the debt becouse I don’t believe the debt is mine surely they cannot add fees when the cca is found and it is established the debt is owed. Surely I must be given the opportunity to pay, if I ignored after that point i would say it was fair to add fees

[AndyOrch]

A DCA cant add anything to a debt apart from a court claim issuance fee...with or without an valid CCA.....but if they did .....you dont pay it.

[dx100uk]

the dca didnt damage your credit file

the oc placed the default upon or before sale...the DCA merely inherited it upon sale.

 

once defaulted, nothing more anyone puts can damage your file any further on that debt.

 

forget the monthly calendar section

no-one bar you and the debt owner can see that.

 

dx

 

[Badger91]

So how will I suffer costs if the agreement is found and I pay within the first month, I am confused because you say I will suffer cost if it’s later found. 

 

I appreciate your help with this 

 

[dx100uk]

the only 'costs' would be those which are of a fixed nature IF IF IF a debt owner raises a county court claim...as andyorch as already explained.

 

p'haps it might help us to help you to outline what this debt is all about.

 

whats the debt type

who was the original creditor

when was it sold to the DCA

how much is the debt

what is the defaulted date from your credit file debt summary section

when was you last payment or use of the credit.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

[Badger91]

The debt is for a credit card which was taken out around 2014, it was sold by capital one to Lowell in April this year, it’s for £400, and the last payment was made back in March 2019, not sure when it defaulted as it vanished from credit file checker just before Lowell contacted me.

[dx100uk]

so a 2014 online electronic signup.

and you must have defaulted almost immediately for the 6th birthday of the registered defaulted date to cause it to disappear from your credit files recently.

 

best idea is not to play silly letter tennis with DCA's, they are not BAILIFFS , and have zero legal powers on ANY debt, no matter it's type.

 

being a 2014ish signup lowells will be able produce to the CCA, and it won't matter if that is outside of the 12+2 working day time limit, now if that is enforceable and holds all the prescribed terms is another matter, as lowells typically like to fake a CCA return by cut n paste.

 

as cap1 didn't sell the debt till recent, and you appear to have defaulted very quickly upon sign up, theres a good chance most of the debt will be unlawful £12 penalty charges so that explains the sale reason.

 

you never blindly pay a dca anything even if they do produce an enforceable CCA.

 

get an sar off to cap1 to get all the statements so you can prepare for the only time you ever respond to a dca other than by a CCA request, and that's when their fake/tame paperwork only solicitors, they sit one desk nearer the bog in a different coloured skirt , sends a letter of claim under the pre action protocol ....which you do NOT ignore.

 

title update

thread moved to the cap1 forum

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Badger91]

Thanks for the reply, 
 

Why would it be unlawful, I thought if a payment is made towards the debt then the debt stops becoming statute barred and the time resets. 6 years never passed as I had made payments in between. 

 

Why would they get fined 12 pound ? 

 

I need to get a sar and then wait for them

to send the letter of claim to me, can you explain what the letter of claim is for ? Is it the same as letter before action, before they apply for a CCJ ? 
 

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me.  
 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

cap1 i would suspect, over the years, have levied you with £12 unlawful penalty charges for things like late or over limit charges.

 

those you can reclaim, or be used to negotiate a better deal with lowells.

SHOULD they issue a letter of action/letter of claim under the 2015 pre action protocol, which they must do, should they wish to raise a court claim via northants bulk court.

 

only your payments reset the SB clock, and as you've paid recently, thats out the window.

 

the defaulted date is nothing to do with any SB date as such.as you've been paying after it..

 

be clear, the sar goes to cap1 one, nothing to do with lowells.

 

[AndyOrch]

16 hours ago, Badger91 said:

So how will I suffer costs if the agreement is found and I pay within the first month, I am confused because you say I will suffer cost if it’s later found. 

 

I appreciate your help with this 

 

 

I didnt state you would suffer costs if they comply with a CCA request...you started this thread with regards to section 10 notices and if they are valid.

A section 10 notice is sent as a warning...they most possibly wont comply....nor should they for the reasons that have now unfolded why you wanted to send one. To give the section notice 10  teeth.....you would then follow it up with a letter of claim informing them you intend to issue a claim to enforce their compliance......all well and good if the court agreed and forced it......but if you lost....then you would be liable for the defendants costs....and as this would be a part 8 claim .......serious costs.

 

So the bottom line is never threaten with a section 10 notice.....unless you know you will win it and have good cause.....which you haven't as this is all to do with an assigned debt to a DCA which there are 1000s like others. 

[Badger91]

Ok, I will request sar from Capital and won’t send section 10 to Lowell, I was going to send this follow up letter with regard to the account being in dispute as of today, should I still send it?

 

Lowell Financial Ltd,
Ellington House,
9 Savannah Way,
Leeds

LS10 1AB

Lowell Financial Ltd, 
PO Box 1411 
Northampton
NN2 1QR

1st July 2020

Lowell reference number:
Original Account No: 

 

SENT BY ROYAL MAIL NEXT DAY GUARANTEED DELIVERY SERVICE 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

 Thank you for your letters dated 17/06/2020 and 18/06/2020 which my original deedpoll documents were attached to, the contents of which have been noted. each letter were both in response to my change of name by deedpoll and my CCA request which was resent to you on 15/06/2020 under my new legal name.

 

 On 11/06/2010, I made a formal request for a true copy of the Credit Agreement for the alleged account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Sections 77/78. A copy of my request is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of 
01/07/2020.

 

 The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed Credit Agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both the original creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account as proof of ownership of said account.

 

 Please note the following:

 

 I have made you aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a Credit Agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has now expired.

 Section 77(6), of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states:

 

  “If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.”

 

 Under the terms of statute law you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said Credit Agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

 Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful and vexatious. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action that constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

 Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a Credit Agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:

 

 ▪ You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 ▪ You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

 ▪ You may not pass the account to a third party.

 ▪ You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

 ▪ You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 ▪ You must remove information logged with any agency which you claim you assert the rights to.

 

 You have 14 calander days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are legally obliged to supply.

 

 I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Kind regards
 
Badger91

 

I originally sent the CCA request with a signature signed through a solid line and date however I read on hear you don't recommend it.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Badger91
error

[AndyOrch]

Prefer you use our template.