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    • Hi all,   I had an Lloyds bank overdraft in 2019 with the overdraft amount being £1350 maxed out by December 2019. I had left the account alone for two/three months as the overdraft fees were basically ruining me(Adding to the £1350 overdraft), i then received a letter from Lloyds asking me to phone them regarding this debt (This was January 2020). I had phoned Lloyds and we went through an expenditure on the phone and the outcome was i was to make payment of £30 towards the debt for 6 months and then after the 6 months is up they would get in touch with me to discuss further options. (There was mention in January that after the 6 months there was a possibility of a loan to pay of the remaining balance and then you make payments against the loan for however many years/months you choose.) It is worth noting that whilst i was making these payments they seized all interest on my account.    I have made every payment since January and have gradually managed to reduce my overdraft down to £1200. My problem is that the bank have phoned as it now at that stage for re-discussion, they have asked me to go through another expenditure and i panicked and over estimated things to make it look like i had less income; not loads but i was in a deficit of -£47. Due to this they said they could not allow me to take out a loan as it would only mean i was borrowing more to pay of debt which they would not allow. It then got passed over to another team and he said that i only had two options. Take a one month break with all interest etc stopped and this will allow me to seek financial advice elsewhere, or they said they would default the payment and i can then pay the minimum i can afford but the default would stay on my credit file for 6 years. He mentioned that they wouldn't take any money of me to help clear the debt as i had a deficit of -£47 and that shows i financially cannot afford to do that option. I have looked at the effects a default can make to your credit file and it impacts it tremendously.   Lloyds asked me how i cover my expenses every month and i mentioned that my Grandparents help me out sometimes with cash flow. So the gentleman at Lloyd's suggested going away and asking my grandparents if they could contribute money to me to help aid in my debt. so that he could go back to the original team(I think collections team) and say she now has this ____ He is due to phone me on Thursday (Tomorrow). I can afford to contribute probably £50-£80 a month but it would mean cutting down on fuel and some other expenses.   Its worth noting that i have a credit card with Nationwide maxed to £1000 too and this will soon be at the stage where they charge interest and i cannot afford to clear this either. Is this worth writing to them about?   Is there anyone that can advise me on what to do to help me pay as little as i can and avoid the default PLEASE, any help is really REALLY appreciated.   Thank you all in advance.
    • In terms of whether or not this is a private sale, clearly it will be for a judge to decide. It seems to me that we have somebody here who bred a litter of puppies and has sold several of them or all of them at probably around £1200 each. I think that is very different from selling your own private second-hand car to get what you can for it in order, for instance, to buy another one. Anyway it's for the judge to decide. In terms of whether or not the seller is aware of the defects – if they are a private seller – all it really means is that they are not subject to sale of goods legislation so that a purchaser in a private sale does not have specific protections. After that you have to fall back onto the common law of contract and once again I think that the liabilities are reasonably strict and I still think that even in a private sale if you bought something with defects which was represented to you as being without defects then you would probably have a good case. In this case, the dog has been accompanied by a health certificate and I think that is as good as any kind of representation dog is without defects. I think we are coming to an altogether more interesting issue. Apparently the dental defect with this puppy is observable and could have been detected by any reasonably careful examination carried out by a reasonable professional. But apparently also there is the possibility that there may be a more complicated problem which could be addressed by work costing up to £2000. What I'd like to know is whether this more complicated problem is as a result of the failure to spot the initial problem. Even if the initial problem had been spotted, with this still be a possibility that this more complicated work would be necessary? I suppose what I'm getting to his that at what point does one decide that a defect is an unacceptable defect or simply a risk that comes with purchasing all animals and therefore could still be considered as "satisfactory" because it would meet the reasonable expectations of any reasonable pet owner. To put it bluntly: are we saying here that if you buy an animal is less than genetically perfect, that you are purchasing defective goods and you are entitled to a refund? Does this mean that all animal traders are obliged to ensure that all the animals they sell are genetically perfect? This is dangerous territory: eugenics.  
    • a dn can be issued even on one default payment.
    • I think I still remain to be convinced that a court would not find the seller's offer to take the puppy back and give the OP a full refund both reasonable and acceptable.   Ignoring that this is the sale of a puppy, isn't this more akin to the private sale of a second-hand car?   I don't really know what the phrase:  "I recently bought a puppy from a home breeder. They have never breed dogs before and aren't a licensed business" means.  Is this a business to consumer sale, or is it simply the opportunistic private sale of puppies from a domestic litter?  I think the OP needs to establish this because it's not clear to me - yet.   AIUI, if I as a private individual privately sold, say,  a car with umpteen non-apparent faults or defects with it, but I was honestly unaware of them and could not be expected to be aware of them, then I'm not liable for any breach of contract when those faults and defects manifest themselves to the buyer a week later.  Isn't that what worried private sellers of cars are told here when aggrieved purchasers threaten to sue them?  It's not immediately obvious to me why this is necessarily any different - unless this is clearly a business to consumer sale.   The OP also says:  "Our puppy was sold as having passed a full health check from Vets4Pets", and so far as I can see this isn't disputed.  Unless that health check revealed the dental problem the OP is now complaining about, but the OP never was shown it (seems unlikely that the seller would mention it but not make the results available), then I think the seller may well be entitled to rely on it.  What more could they do to ascertain the health of the puppy?   I think this is not necessarily a clear-cut claim, and from the way the OP describes the breeder I think the question whether this is a consumer sale or a private sale may not have a black or white answer.     1.  The OP mentions following advice to buy puppies bred from a "home pet" (or similar such wording).  Not clear if this was the case here, but if it was, doesn't this suggest a private rather than consumer or trade sale?   2.  The OP also suggests that the health of the puppy was misrepresented, but is this necessarily correct?  They say the puppy was advertised as having had a "full health check", but that's not the same as saying the puppy was actually healthy.  And if it was a private sale, is the seller required to declare health problems they are aware of if they aren't specifically asked?
    • Ok,    I thought it may of helped as their DN stated 2 installments in arrears when it was issued on 10/2/17, but it would infact only have been 1 installment overdue 17/01/17.   I will keep to what I already know and stop over thinking further issues. 😁    
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Badger91

lowell and cap1 debt - if they fail my CCA - is a section 10 notice still applicable?

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Hi
 

I have been following another post on this site and after requesting a cca agreement from the DCA, after 12 days of the DCA receiving the request the account goes into dispute if the agreement isn’t provided. The following letter is then issued:

 

Quote

 

Date: 21 March 2009

Your Ref No:

By Recorded Delivery

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

LEGAL NOTICE UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT 1980

 

Please be advised that this is a formal notice issued under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1980.

 

I demand that you cease processing of my Data by any means whether written or electronically, with third party, individuals and organisations. In addition to processing, this also means passing, amending, sharing and management in any form of my Data in whatsoever filing, both manually or electronically.

 

In compliance with the Information Commissioners guidance, I give you 14 days to comply with this request.

 

The purpose of this request is that I am of the understanding that your continual processing/controlling of my data will cause distress harm and damage. Specifically because;

 

▪ My credit worthiness is being or has been damaged by your actions as a result of your entries to my credit files.

 

▪ That I fully expect to show that adverse data was wrongly filed which would mean that earlier processing was unfair and unjust.

 

▪ That matters in relation to adverse data you have entered onto my credit files are currently in dispute.

 

▪ That the adverse data you continue to process, manage and pass on to third parties impedes my ability to apply for credit, mortgages or other financial services

 

▪ That as a Data Controller/Compliance Officer, you have a responsibility under the Data Protection Act to observe all principles set out therein, within the act.

 

I expect an acknowledgement of your intentions to comply, and if you do not agree, your reasons for being unable or unwilling to do so.

 

You have until 6 April 2009 to forward this to me in writing.

 

Under the Data Protection Act, a County Court has the powers to order compliance of any breaches it sees fit, together with compensation, at the discretion of the Court.

 

Should you fail to comply, or give just and reasonable reasons as to why you will not comply, I will consider making an application to my local County Court on notice to force compliance, together with costs and compensation.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the prescribed timescale.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 


I am aware there have been changes since GDPR rules were introduced but I don’t know if this letter is still ok to use

 

Is there a newer letter I should be sending ? If so can anyone provide this please.

 

I have read that there is now 21 days to respond to the request, however this letter states 14 days. 

 

 

Kind regards

 

badger

 

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Good question.

The letter is probably out of date and I don't know if it is still possible to send such a thing. I haven't updated myself either.

When I can tell you is that in the old days quite a few people send this letter and am afraid had zero effect. I'm sure that this was very often unlawful by the data processors – but I'm afraid that sending a letter simply gave a false comfort and probably nothing else.

It would certainly be worthwhile discovering if a section 10 letter is still a possibility and how it can be proceeded upon if it is ignored.


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Posted (edited)


Thanks for your reply’s, So should I change the title on the letter to 1998 and not 1980 ? Andyorc, The link you shared says it was published in 2012 but it’s says nothing regarding GDPR which I think was introduced in 2018. 
 

 

Edited by Badger91
Error

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No it remains the same....


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Ok one last thing, the letter states they have 14 days to comply with my request am I correct in saying this is now 21 days and is it working days. 

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21 calendar days.


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but pointless letter tennis.

what do you think it will achieve.

 

won't nor can't stop them processing your data regardless to if/not a cca exists.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I would like them to follow the legislation guidelines, whether they do or not is another question, if it is a law that requires them to do so surely legal action can be taken if they should choose to carry on regardless. Otherwise what is the point of the act being in place.

Edited by Badger91

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section 10 surely is to do with the processing of your data and if they have a right to do so.

 

a failed cca request, or more importantly the failure to produce the agreement nor the relevant T&C's you signed up to, which gave the OC rights to process your data , and thus the right to sell those right's on .... doesn't remove the fact you did give permission.

 

IMHO a section 10 notice, as has been debated 1000's of time here in our+10yrs existence, in this instance is silly letter tennis.

look at the date of the threads you are referring too and reading.  ..... the thoughts and the forum members have changed, and i also contend they were wrong even back then ...

 

 

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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The point of a section 10 notice....it allows a court claim if they fail comply...always has been...not intended as letter tennis...you give them warning....21 days if they fail to comply ...you sue....and use the DPA1980 as your prescribed legislation.

 

Andy


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If the credit agreement cannot be found how can they say I gave permission to process data without the agreement, if there is no agreement the debt becomes unenforceable, they cannot continue to damage my credit file and sell it on as its in dispute and unenforceable until the cca is found. That’s is my understanding 

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4 minutes ago, Badger91 said:

If the credit agreement cannot be found how can they say I gave permission to process data without the agreement, if there is no agreement the debt becomes unenforceable, they cannot continue to damage my credit file and sell it on as its in dispute and unenforceable until the cca is found. That’s is my understanding 

 

 

But dont use it for the above reason...you will fail and suffer costs.


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If the cca is found then I will pay the balance as soon as it is provided,  if I am disputing the debt becouse I don’t believe the debt is mine surely they cannot add fees when the cca is found and it is established the debt is owed. Surely I must be given the opportunity to pay, if I ignored after that point i would say it was fair to add fees

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A DCA cant add anything to a debt apart from a court claim issuance fee...with or without an valid CCA.....but if they did .....you dont pay it.


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the dca didnt damage your credit file

the oc placed the default upon or before sale...the DCA merely inherited it upon sale.

 

once defaulted, nothing more anyone puts can damage your file any further on that debt.

 

forget the monthly calendar section

no-one bar you and the debt owner can see that.

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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So how will I suffer costs if the agreement is found and I pay within the first month, I am confused because you say I will suffer cost if it’s later found. 

 

I appreciate your help with this 

 

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the only 'costs' would be those which are of a fixed nature IF IF IF a debt owner raises a county court claim...as andyorch as already explained.

 

p'haps it might help us to help you to outline what this debt is all about.

 

whats the debt type

who was the original creditor

when was it sold to the DCA

how much is the debt

what is the defaulted date from your credit file debt summary section

when was you last payment or use of the credit.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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The debt is for a credit card which was taken out around 2014, it was sold by capital one to Lowell in April this year, it’s for £400, and the last payment was made back in March 2019, not sure when it defaulted as it vanished from credit file checker just before Lowell contacted me.

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so a 2014 online electronic signup.

and you must have defaulted almost immediately for the 6th birthday of the registered defaulted date to cause it to disappear from your credit files recently.

 

best idea is not to play silly letter tennis with DCA's, they are not BAILIFFS , and have zero legal powers on ANY debt, no matter it's type.

 

being a 2014ish signup lowells will be able produce to the CCA, and it won't matter if that is outside of the 12+2 working day time limit, now if that is enforceable and holds all the prescribed terms is another matter, as lowells typically like to fake a CCA return by cut n paste.

 

as cap1 didn't sell the debt till recent, and you appear to have defaulted very quickly upon sign up, theres a good chance most of the debt will be unlawful £12 penalty charges so that explains the sale reason.

 

you never blindly pay a dca anything even if they do produce an enforceable CCA.

 

get an sar off to cap1 to get all the statements so you can prepare for the only time you ever respond to a dca other than by a CCA request, and that's when their fake/tame paperwork only solicitors, they sit one desk nearer the bog in a different coloured skirt , sends a letter of claim under the pre action protocol ....which you do NOT ignore.

 

title update

thread moved to the cap1 forum

 

 

 

 

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thanks for the reply, 
 

Why would it be unlawful, I thought if a payment is made towards the debt then the debt stops becoming statute barred and the time resets. 6 years never passed as I had made payments in between. 

 

Why would they get fined 12 pound ? 

 

I need to get a sar and then wait for them

to send the letter of claim to me, can you explain what the letter of claim is for ? Is it the same as letter before action, before they apply for a CCJ ? 
 


Thank you for taking the time to explain to me.  
 


 

 

 

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cap1 i would suspect, over the years, have levied you with £12 unlawful penalty charges for things like late or over limit charges.

 

those you can reclaim, or be used to negotiate a better deal with lowells.

SHOULD they issue a letter of action/letter of claim under the 2015 pre action protocol, which they must do, should they wish to raise a court claim via northants bulk court.

 

only your payments reset the SB clock, and as you've paid recently, thats out the window.

 

the defaulted date is nothing to do with any SB date.

 

be clear, the sar goes to cap1 one, nothing to do with lowells.

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Badger91 said:

So how will I suffer costs if the agreement is found and I pay within the first month, I am confused because you say I will suffer cost if it’s later found. 

 

I appreciate your help with this 

 

 

I didnt state you would suffer costs if they comply with a CCA request...you started this thread with regards to section 10 notices and if they are valid.

A section 10 notice is sent as a warning...they most possibly wont comply....nor should they for the reasons that have now unfolded why you wanted to send one. To give the section notice 10  teeth.....you would then follow it up with a letter of claim informing them you intend to issue a claim to enforce their compliance......all well and good if the court agreed and forced it......but if you lost....then you would be liable for the defendants costs....and as this would be a part 8 claim .......serious costs.

 

So the bottom line is never threaten with a section 10 notice.....unless you know you will win it and have good cause.....which you haven't as this is all to do with an assigned debt to a DCA which there are 1000s like others. 


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Posted (edited)

Ok, I will request sar from Capital and won’t send section 10 to Lowell, I was going to send this follow up letter with regard to the account being in dispute as of today, should I still send it?

 

Lowell Financial Ltd,
Ellington House,
9 Savannah Way,
Leeds


LS10 1AB

Lowell Financial Ltd, 
PO Box 1411 
Northampton
NN2 1QR


1st July 2020


Lowell reference number:
Original Account No: 

 

SENT BY ROYAL MAIL NEXT DAY GUARANTEED DELIVERY SERVICE 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

 Thank you for your letters dated 17/06/2020 and 18/06/2020 which my original deedpoll documents were attached to, the contents of which have been noted. each letter were both in response to my change of name by deedpoll and my CCA request which was resent to you on 15/06/2020 under my new legal name.

 

 On 11/06/2010, I made a formal request for a true copy of the Credit Agreement for the alleged account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Sections 77/78. A copy of my request is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of 
01/07/2020.

 

 The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed Credit Agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both the original creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account as proof of ownership of said account.

 

 Please note the following:

 

 I have made you aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a Credit Agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has now expired.

 Section 77(6), of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states:

 

  “If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.”

 

 Under the terms of statute law you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said Credit Agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

 Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful and vexatious. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action that constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

 Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a Credit Agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:

 

 ▪ You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 ▪ You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

 ▪ You may not pass the account to a third party.

 ▪ You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

 ▪ You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 ▪ You must remove information logged with any agency which you claim you assert the rights to.

 

 You have 14 calander days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are legally obliged to supply.

 

 I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Kind regards
 
Badger91

 

I originally sent the CCA request with a signature signed through a solid line and date however I read on hear you don't recommend it.

Edited by Badger91
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Prefer you use our template.

 

 


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