Jump to content


Express Solicitors - Breach of Contract, court summons


bigdaddy36
 Share

Recommended Posts

Yup, SAR should have included that but it didn’t. Which circles back to where we were.Screenshots, emails conversations etc.

 

Troubling also that the data controller was not involved, and that the SAR request was handled by the solicitor dealing with her case. 
 

A data controller is supposed to be neutral. That’s why companies need to appoint one or outsource.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

The two words "no fee" are the important words; it's not "no cost"

 

If you enter into a NWNF agreement and you lose your case, you may not have to pay a fee but you will almost certainly end up paying your solicitors' expenses in bringing the case.  And you may have to pay the other side's costs too.

 

All this should be explained to the client beforehand.  They should also be told about insurance arrangements to cover these costs if they end up losing the case.  I think it's called "After the Event" (ATE) insurance.  (Or maybe it's "Before the Event" - I can't remember!).

 

Of course it might be that the SAR is helpful to Stormy if it reveals that these points were not discussed at the outset.*

 

 

Just to add - the "exemption" I think might exist in respect of pending litigation comes from a High Court decision.  (I think.  Maybe I've made it up).  It's not in the legislation.  Now I'm sure staff in the ICO are familiar with the statutory exemptions, but perhaps they are less familiar with decided case-law.  But perhaps I have made it up and am completely wrong...

 

* Maybe not where the client simply decides not to continue with the case.  A bit like "Decisions not to travel" not being covered by travel insurance.

Edited by Manxman in exile
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what the SAR covered.  The solicitor's letter implies it was a request for only the entire case file, and Stormy's post was ambiguous as to whether the request was only for dates and transcripts of 'phone conversations, or whether it included the case file too.

 

I'm still not sure how any response to a SAR assists in building a defence.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If a case is funded by a CFA and ATE insurance policy then you would not expect to be charged or billed anything if you follow your solicitor's advice but the claim is unsuccessful. 

 

Providing the client has not been "fundamentally dishonest" about their claim then they won't have to pay the other side's legal costs if the claim is unsuccessful either. These are covered by "Qualified one way costs shifting". 

 

However, if the client breaches the CFA by refusing to cooperate or follow their solicitor's reasonable advice then the solicitor can sue their client for the legal costs and disbursements incurred up to that point. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I send an SAR to HMRC, Tax Credits, DWP I get what I ask for ie everything. An SAR is a standard request , there is no ambiguity or anything unclear about the wording.

 

None of the above organisations are above the law, much less a firm of solicitors. 
 

Unfortunately there is very little understanding about GDPR within organisations and very little training. That’s why it isn’t surprising that the solicitor dealing with her case tried to deal with it himself. I’d hazard a guess that it’s probably the first one he’s had.

 

It’s also weapons grade stupidity. I repeat the fines are bankruptcy level. Managing partner should be making sure his company is complying and potentially sacking the solicitor.

 

 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

A SAR does not entitle the client to the full file of papers unfortunately. 

 

And at this point a full bill of costs probably hasn't been created yet as it's not been requested! Express can't disclose what doesn't exist! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing to remember is that GDPR applies to all, even individuals, its full ramifications as London points out are wider than many realise so its likely many Solicitors are unaware of how it impacts them.  It can even bite private sellers on eBay.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw my marketing director with 20 years of experience booted out unceremoniously after botching GDPR. My company took it that seriously. A fine for them would have been in the millions potentially.

 

Sure there are things she’s not entitled to but Emails, phone conversations, screenshots etc are all in play.

 

So they are either ignorant of the laws, or deliberately think it’s ok not to comply.

 

Which, I would personally do is report it, then email / write the managing partner that I’ve reported it, and why. 
 

The liability is too massive for their company to take that risk.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, London1971 said:

I saw my marketing director with 20 years of experience booted out unceremoniously after botching GDPR. My company took it that seriously. A fine for them would have been in the millions potentially.

 

Sure there are things she’s not entitled to but Emails, phone conversations, screenshots etc are all in play.

 

So they are either ignorant of the laws, or deliberately think it’s ok not to comply.

 

Which, I would personally do is report it, then email / write the managing partner that I’ve reported it, and why. 
 

The liability is too massive for their company to take that risk.

Which is all great but detracting from the most pressing issue of what date is the Defence due and what are the legal arguments against this breach of contract claim. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Stormy1976 said:

The request was for

- file

- records of phone calls and transcript

- email exchange

 

I should have made it clearer in the post- you're right.

 

At this point copies of emails and telephone notes between you and Express should be requested as part of the litigation using the CPR. 

 

You can always apply for specific disclosure if Express don't comply with your request. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stormy - if the deadline for your defence is looming, you can always go back to the solicitors and tell them you have been advised by the ICO that there is no such exemption as they are claiming (or whatever the ICO actually said).  Tell them that if they don't comply immediately (or if they don't agree to let you file a late defence) you will definitely be making a formal complaint to the ICO, [and that you hope they have deep pockets] (I added that last bit for London1971's benefit only!).

 

Whether that is a good idea or a foolish one - I do not know...  See what others think.

 

But, like Ganymede, I'm not sure how any response to a SAR aids your defence against a breach of contract claim.  And if you allow the deadline for your defence to pass while concentrating on this SAR, you are stuffed.

Edited by Manxman in exile
Link to post
Share on other sites

The OP needs to ask Express for copies of:

 

* Signed CFA and schedules. 

* Signed T&Cs. 

* Signed authority to commence. 

* ATE policy schedule and information. 

* All postal and email correspondence between the OP and Express. 

* All telephone notes between the OP and Express. 

 

Not as part of a SAR but under the CPR. 

 

Also a full breakdown and bill of costs. 

 

This needs to be done today. 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys have been so helpful and informative. Thank you .

I have gone back to the Senior  Firm's partner who dealt with the SAR and asked to provide the information requested in my original SAR - specifically records of my phone calls dates and times, transcript and email exchange. These- the ICO- deemed to be covered under the DPA.

 

Thanks again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No, ask for the documents I suggested today and ask for them pursuant to Express' duty of disclosure under the CPR. 

 

The DSAR complaint is a separate issue for another day. You need to get the paperwork you are entitled to as part of the Court claim

 

When is your Defence due I forget? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure but I think Ganymede may be suggesting(?) you need to ask for that information formally under the Civil Procedure Rules rather than via a SAR.  That way they can't refuse to comply.

 

I'm not certain because I'm not a lawyer, but I think it might be rule 31?  I'm sure somebody else will know.

 

(Sorry - all getting complicated).

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

CPR 31 doesn’t apply to claims on the small claims track (CPR 31.1(2))

 (so they MIGHT try & use this to disclaim a duty to disclose).

 

I’d hope not but if they did try it on : point out that although it seems likely this will be on the small claims track, it hasn’t yet been allocated to a track, so CPR 31.1(2) doesn’t (yet!) apply. If they did try it on you could also point out that with them being solicitors and with you as a self-represented litigant they shouldn’t use you not knowing the details of the CPR to mislead ........

Edited by BazzaS
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good point! 

 

With all the drama about the SAR I forget that this will be allocated to the SCT and not FT. 

 

Express still have a duty to provide disclosure though and should comply with the OP's request. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

can you all please stop using quote...

 

just type...

 

makes the thread twice as long...and difficult to read...and find your replies

 

dx

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would still utilise CPR 31 irrespective.....until allocation the claim is trackless and can be referred to within a defence which subsequently applies pressure on the court to direct that disclosure in standard disclosure.

 

Under CPR rule 31.12, the Court may make an order pre allocation. for specific disclosure or inspection requiring a party to: • disclose documents or classes of documents specified in the order; • carry out a search to the extent stated in the order; • disclose any documents located in the search.

 

Alternatively possibly consider CPR 18...Under CPR rule 18.1, the court may at any time order a party to clarify any matter which is in dispute in the proceedings or give additional information in relation to any such matter whether or not the matter is contained or referred to in a statement of case by filing and serving a response within the time specified by the court.

 

The response must be verified by a statement of truth (CPR rule 22.1(1)(b)). CPR rule 18 does not apply to small claims (CPR 27.2(1)(f)), but in a small claim the Court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers it appropriate to do so (CPR 27.2(3)). CPR rule 18.1 is subject to CPR 53.3, which protects the identity of the defendant’s sources of information in defamation claims, unless the court orders otherwise.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stormy1976 might welcome some advice on what* to send off in respect of CPR 31?  Or she first needs to draft something and ask for comments on it here?  [EDIT:  I think it may just have become more complicated than she was expecting].

 

It's still not clear to me what she hopes to have disclosed and how that will contribute to her defence?

 

 

*Is it just a request for the info Ganymede suggested in #190?

Edited by Manxman in exile
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...