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    • In terms of whether or not this is a private sale, clearly it will be for a judge to decide. It seems to me that we have somebody here who bred a litter of puppies and has sold several of them or all of them at probably around £1200 each. I think that is very different from selling your own private second-hand car to get what you can for it in order, for instance, to buy another one. Anyway it's for the judge to decide. In terms of whether or not the seller is aware of the defects – if they are a private seller – all it really means is that they are not subject to sale of goods legislation so that a purchaser in a private sale does not have specific protections. After that you have to fall back onto the common law of contract and once again I think that the liabilities are reasonably strict and I still think that even in a private sale if you bought something with defects which was represented to you as being without defects then you would probably have a good case. In this case, the dog has been accompanied by a health certificate and I think that is as good as any kind of representation dog is without defects. I think we are coming to an altogether more interesting issue. Apparently the dental defect with this puppy is observable and could have been detected by any reasonably careful examination carried out by a reasonable professional. But apparently also there is the possibility that there may be a more complicated problem which could be addressed by work costing up to £2000. What I'd like to know is whether this more complicated problem is as a result of the failure to spot the initial problem. Even if the initial problem had been spotted, with this still be a possibility that this more complicated work would be necessary? I suppose what I'm getting to his that at what point does one decide that a defect is an unacceptable defect or simply a risk that comes with purchasing all animals and therefore could still be considered as "satisfactory" because it would meet the reasonable expectations of any reasonable pet owner. To put it bluntly: are we saying here that if you buy an animal is less than genetically perfect, that you are purchasing defective goods and you are entitled to a refund? Does this mean that all animal traders are obliged to ensure that all the animals they sell are genetically perfect? This is dangerous territory: eugenics.  
    • a dn can be issued even on one default payment.
    • I think I still remain to be convinced that a court would not find the seller's offer to take the puppy back and give the OP a full refund both reasonable and acceptable.   Ignoring that this is the sale of a puppy, isn't this more akin to the private sale of a second-hand car?   I don't really know what the phrase:  "I recently bought a puppy from a home breeder. They have never breed dogs before and aren't a licensed business" means.  Is this a business to consumer sale, or is it simply the opportunistic private sale of puppies from a domestic litter?  I think the OP needs to establish this because it's not clear to me - yet.   AIUI, if I as a private individual privately sold, say,  a car with umpteen non-apparent faults or defects with it, but I was honestly unaware of them and could not be expected to be aware of them, then I'm not liable for any breach of contract when those faults and defects manifest themselves to the buyer a week later.  Isn't that what worried private sellers of cars are told here when aggrieved purchasers threaten to sue them?  It's not immediately obvious to me why this is necessarily any different - unless this is clearly a business to consumer sale.   The OP also says:  "Our puppy was sold as having passed a full health check from Vets4Pets", and so far as I can see this isn't disputed.  Unless that health check revealed the dental problem the OP is now complaining about, but the OP never was shown it (seems unlikely that the seller would mention it but not make the results available), then I think the seller may well be entitled to rely on it.  What more could they do to ascertain the health of the puppy?   I think this is not necessarily a clear-cut claim, and from the way the OP describes the breeder I think the question whether this is a consumer sale or a private sale may not have a black or white answer.     1.  The OP mentions following advice to buy puppies bred from a "home pet" (or similar such wording).  Not clear if this was the case here, but if it was, doesn't this suggest a private rather than consumer or trade sale?   2.  The OP also suggests that the health of the puppy was misrepresented, but is this necessarily correct?  They say the puppy was advertised as having had a "full health check", but that's not the same as saying the puppy was actually healthy.  And if it was a private sale, is the seller required to declare health problems they are aware of if they aren't specifically asked?
    • Ok,    I thought it may of helped as their DN stated 2 installments in arrears when it was issued on 10/2/17, but it would infact only have been 1 installment overdue 17/01/17.   I will keep to what I already know and stop over thinking further issues. 😁    
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bigdaddy36

Express Solicitors - Breach of Contract, court summons

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1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

The only letter which I suggest you send was one which accompanied the defence when you eventually serve the defence on them.
 

If anyone else suggested a letter then that was wrong.

@BankFodder Yes you are correct. I have just responded to that.


I have  a bit of clearer head today (the morning run helped), so hopefully i will function properly and not infuriate people on here.


Thanks

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2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Once again, it's been explained.

When the time comes to send a copy of the defence to express then you accompany it with the letter which I have suggested or something which is more to your taste.

You make no other communication with express at the moment – other than the SAR.

Noted, - my head was spinning yesterday so after my run this morning i have revisited the thread again, so it's clear.


Thanks @BankFodder 

Hope you have a good day.

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It's obviously just a stalling tactic and actually it's unlawful.

However, to save wasting time, you should comply – straightaway.

However it's amazing that they want to check your identity when you are exactly the person and presumably the same address to which they have issued the proceedings.

I suggest the letter below

 

Quote

I have received your request for proof of identity in respect of my subject access request.

I'm complying with your request simply to expedite matters.  The evidence which you need is enclosed with this letter.

However, I consider that you are raising an unnecessary obstacle and that your actions are contrary to the Data Protection Act.

You have been perfectly happy to issue proceedings against me – addressed to the same name and at the same address – if you had any doubt as to my identity then you would not have done this.

You have all the information necessary relating to my identity and you are simply trying to make life difficult and delay matters.

You can be certain that when we go to court, this kind of behaviour – especially from solicitors who are apparently officers of the court will be brought to the attention of the judge.

 

 


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15 hours ago, Stormy1976 said:

 

 

 

 

Tis a bit weird , did you get to the stage where you had sent them certified ID already. I thought that was standard practice when dealing with any solicitor. Eg a copy of your passport and a utility bill?


The data protection department should be completely independent of any issue you have with the company, 


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17 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

It's obviously just a stalling tactic and actually it's unlawful.

However, to save wasting time, you should comply – straightaway.

However it's amazing that they want to check your identity when you are exactly the person and presumably the same address to which they have issued the proceedings.

I suggest the letter below

 

 

@BankFodder, thanks a lot for prompt response. They really stressed me out with that, but I have friends in profession who would do this for me today and will reply with your letter. I thought I better not stressed from this as there's probably a lot coming my way.

 

Many thanks again.

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2 minutes ago, London1971 said:

 

Tis a bit weird , did you get to the stage where you had sent them certified ID already. I thought that was standard practice when dealing with any solicitor. Eg a copy of your passport and a utility bill?


The data protection department should be completely independent of any issue you have with the company, 

No I have never sent them certified copies of my identity when they proceeded with the claim


The letter has been signed not by their Data Protection officer, but in fact by the person who has in fact making the claim, one of their solicitors.

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1 minute ago, Stormy1976 said:

No I have never sent them certified copies of my identity when they proceeded with the claim


The letter has been signed not by their Data Protection officer, but in fact by the person who has in fact making the claim, one of their solicitors.

 

When dealing with my claim they never asked for signed copies of anything, or proof of ID.

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@BankFodder is this something that can be used in @Stormy1976 defence? 
 

No ID given? I’ve never dealt with any solicitor who hasn’t asked for this before opening any case.

 

What exactly did you send them? I guess they sent you a contract and you signed and sent it back to them!


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3 minutes ago, London1971 said:

@BankFodder is this something that can be used in @Stormy1976 defence? 
 

No ID given? I’ve never dealt with any solicitor who hasn’t asked for this before opening any case.

No - no proof of ID given to them whatsoever. Nothing on the mail, and nothing on line.

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No it wouldn't help in her defence – but it might be helpful to show the kind of obstinate and overaggressive firm of solicitors that she is dealing with.

 

In fact I think I will add something to the draft defence


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7 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

No it wouldn't help in her defence – but it might be helpful to show the kind of obstinate and overaggressive firm of solicitors that she is dealing with.

My friend, is  coming at 3:30 today to sign the documents. She's in a standing profession (a police officer)

 

 

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61 paragraphs. If you own a litigant in person you would complete this way – but as a litigant in person you have a certain licence and you may as well exploit it.


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Posted (edited)

Thank you @BankFodder Noted and I will update my local version.

Edited by Stormy1976

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1 hour ago, London1971 said:

@BankFodder is this something that can be used in @Stormy1976 defence? 
 

No ID given? I’ve never dealt with any solicitor who hasn’t asked for this before opening any case.

 

What exactly did you send them? I guess they sent you a contract and you signed and sent it back to them!

 

Hi @London1971 they asked me to electronically access their file and electronically sign the agreement. Some weird electronic system they had in place which didn't work as they kept asking me to sign it many times. I have the emails to that.

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When you say it didn't work, do you mean that you couldn't access the agreement? Did you receive this on your phone?


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Just wondering if there is any mileage in the actual method of agreement the electronic signature process being faulty?

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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5 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

When you say it didn't work, do you mean that you couldn't access the agreement? Did you receive this on your phone?

I received it in my email, but yes accessed the link either via the laptop or the phone and you were directed to a signature page, which you were supposed to enter your name and date, but didn't seem to have saved it on the claimants portal, so the next day I will get either an email or a call from express asking to sign the document, so things like this that kept annoying me.

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64 paragraphs


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This will hopefully become clear when you receive the SAR, if they fully comply. A copy of anything signed by you would have to be produced.

 

If there is no signed agreement! And no Proof of identity, surely they are on shaky ground?

 

Are they just speculatively throwing out claim forms, to anybody who didn’t complete the process. Knowing that they will win by default on many of them?

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Is there anything negative about this outfit on Social Media?  Might be their MO to send claims like confetti, in a similar way to Simple Simon of VCS.


We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I was very surprised about how good their Google reviews are. It’s difficult and extremely counter productive to try and cheat those.

 

The fact that they answer every single review is very rare and shows that they care about their image, and that they also have an understanding of how Google see’s their company.
 

Nearly 3k Twitter followers, and a pretty active feed, no complaints .

 

 


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2 hours ago, London1971 said:

I was very surprised about how good their Google reviews are. It’s difficult and extremely counter productive to try and cheat those.

 

The fact that they answer every single review is very rare and shows that they care about their image, and that they also have an understanding of how Google see’s their company.
 

Nearly 3k Twitter followers, and a pretty active feed, no complaints .

 

 

@London1971 yes I agree with you on the reviews.

 

Submitted the Identity documents a few minutes ago along with the letter that @BankFodder kindly put together.

 

Thank you all once again.


 

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5 hours ago, Stormy1976 said:

No I have never sent them certified copies of my identity when they proceeded with the claim


The letter has been signed not by their Data Protection officer, but in fact by the person who has in fact making the claim, one of their solicitors.

This is not necessarily kosher under GDPR rules, see link and highlights below. Unless of course this chap, your solicitor is the DPO. If the company does not have one appointed they are in breach of GDPR.  Scary conflict of interest if it's your solicitor dealing with the SAR. I'd ring anonymously to reception and ask who their Data Protection Officer is.

 

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/accountability-and-governance/data-protection-officers/#:~:text=The GDPR introduces a duty,certain types of processing activities.&text=The DPO must be independent,to the highest management level.


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36 minutes ago, London1971 said:

This is not necessarily kosher under GDPR rules, see link and highlights below. Unless of course this chap, your solicitor is the DPO. If the company does not have one appointed they are in breach of GDPR.  Scary conflict of interest if it's your solicitor dealing with the SAR. I'd ring anonymously to reception and ask who their Data Protection Officer is.

 

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/accountability-and-governance/data-protection-officers/#:~:text=The GDPR introduces a duty,certain types of processing activities.&text=The DPO must be independent,to the highest management level.

I got the name of their DPO from their website and addressed my request directly to Ms xxx only for ruthless  Mr xxx who’s the claimant to email me.hes now out of the office for two days, I have still emailed my response to him and the DPO email address. 

 

i would ring tomorrow. 

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I would just like to dampen down the enthusiasm of be here.

I have a sense that people are starting to feel a bit gung ho about this.

I'd like to make it clear that the chances of succeeding on this are only just 50-50

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