Express Solicitors @ExpressSols- Breach of Contract, court summons *** Claim Dismissed - with costs!!!***

[Ganymede]

@London1971

 

Should have included what? A bill of costs? 

[Manxman in exile]

I'm not sure what the SAR covered.  The solicitor's letter implies it was a request for only the entire case file, and Stormy's post was ambiguous as to whether the request was only for dates and transcripts of 'phone conversations, or whether it included the case file too.

 

I'm still not sure how any response to a SAR assists in building a defence.

[Ganymede]

If a case is funded by a CFA and ATE insurance policy then you would not expect to be charged or billed anything if you follow your solicitor's advice but the claim is unsuccessful. 

 

Providing the client has not been "fundamentally dishonest" about their claim then they won't have to pay the other side's legal costs if the claim is unsuccessful either. These are covered by "Qualified one way costs shifting". 

 

However, if the client breaches the CFA by refusing to cooperate or follow their solicitor's reasonable advice then the solicitor can sue their client for the legal costs and disbursements incurred up to that point. 

[London1971]

If I send an SAR to HMRC, Tax Credits, DWP I get what I ask for ie everything. An SAR is a standard request , there is no ambiguity or anything unclear about the wording.

 

None of the above organisations are above the law, much less a firm of solicitors. 
 

Unfortunately there is very little understanding about GDPR within organisations and very little training. That’s why it isn’t surprising that the solicitor dealing with her case tried to deal with it himself. I’d hazard a guess that it’s probably the first one he’s had.

 

It’s also weapons grade stupidity. I repeat the fines are bankruptcy level. Managing partner should be making sure his company is complying and potentially sacking the solicitor.

 

 

 

 

[Ganymede]

A SAR does not entitle the client to the full file of papers unfortunately. 

 

And at this point a full bill of costs probably hasn't been created yet as it's not been requested! Express can't disclose what doesn't exist! 

[brassnecked]

one thing to remember is that GDPR applies to all, even individuals, its full ramifications as London points out are wider than many realise so its likely many Solicitors are unaware of how it impacts them.  It can even bite private sellers on eBay.

[London1971]

I saw my marketing director with 20 years of experience booted out unceremoniously after botching GDPR. My company took it that seriously. A fine for them would have been in the millions potentially.

 

Sure there are things she’s not entitled to but Emails, phone conversations, screenshots etc are all in play.

 

So they are either ignorant of the laws, or deliberately think it’s ok not to comply.

 

Which, I would personally do is report it, then email / write the managing partner that I’ve reported it, and why. 
 

The liability is too massive for their company to take that risk.

[Manxman in exile]

Of course we don't want to give the firm even more reason to chase Stormy (and other clients) to pay their bills...

 

I find it very difficult to believe that even a common or garden high street firm of solicitors would be unaware of their GDPR obligations.

[Stormy1976]

The request was for

- file

- records of phone calls and transcript

- email exchange

 

I should have made it clearer in the post- you're right.

[Ganymede]

12 minutes ago, London1971 said:

I saw my marketing director with 20 years of experience booted out unceremoniously after botching GDPR. My company took it that seriously. A fine for them would have been in the millions potentially.

 

Sure there are things she’s not entitled to but Emails, phone conversations, screenshots etc are all in play.

 

So they are either ignorant of the laws, or deliberately think it’s ok not to comply.

 

Which, I would personally do is report it, then email / write the managing partner that I’ve reported it, and why. 
 

The liability is too massive for their company to take that risk.

Which is all great but detracting from the most pressing issue of what date is the Defence due and what are the legal arguments against this breach of contract claim. 

[Ganymede]

6 minutes ago, Stormy1976 said:

The request was for

- file

- records of phone calls and transcript

- email exchange

 

I should have made it clearer in the post- you're right.

 

At this point copies of emails and telephone notes between you and Express should be requested as part of the litigation using the CPR. 

 

You can always apply for specific disclosure if Express don't comply with your request. 

[Manxman in exile]

Stormy - if the deadline for your defence is looming, you can always go back to the solicitors and tell them you have been advised by the ICO that there is no such exemption as they are claiming (or whatever the ICO actually said).  Tell them that if they don't comply immediately (or if they don't agree to let you file a late defence) you will definitely be making a formal complaint to the ICO, [and that you hope they have deep pockets] (I added that last bit for London1971's benefit only!).

 

Whether that is a good idea or a foolish one - I do not know...  See what others think.

 

But, like Ganymede, I'm not sure how any response to a SAR aids your defence against a breach of contract claim.  And if you allow the deadline for your defence to pass while concentrating on this SAR, you are stuffed.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Ganymede]

The OP needs to ask Express for copies of:

 

* Signed CFA and schedules. 

* Signed T&Cs. 

* Signed authority to commence. 

* ATE policy schedule and information. 

* All postal and email correspondence between the OP and Express. 

* All telephone notes between the OP and Express. 

 

Not as part of a SAR but under the CPR. 

 

Also a full breakdown and bill of costs. 

 

This needs to be done today. 

 

 

[Stormy1976]

You guys have been so helpful and informative. Thank you .

I have gone back to the Senior  Firm's partner who dealt with the SAR and asked to provide the information requested in my original SAR - specifically records of my phone calls dates and times, transcript and email exchange. These- the ICO- deemed to be covered under the DPA.

 

Thanks again.

[Ganymede]

No, ask for the documents I suggested today and ask for them pursuant to Express' duty of disclosure under the CPR. 

 

The DSAR complaint is a separate issue for another day. You need to get the paperwork you are entitled to as part of the Court claim. 

 

When is your Defence due I forget? 

[Manxman in exile]

I'm not sure but I think Ganymede may be suggesting(?) you need to ask for that information formally under the Civil Procedure Rules rather than via a SAR.  That way they can't refuse to comply.

 

I'm not certain because I'm not a lawyer, but I think it might be rule 31?  I'm sure somebody else will know.

 

(Sorry - all getting complicated).

[AndyOrch]

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part31

[Ganymede]

Yeah CPR 31. 

[BazzaS]

CPR 31 doesn’t apply to claims on the small claims track (CPR 31.1(2))

 (so they MIGHT try & use this to disclaim a duty to disclose).

 

I’d hope not but if they did try it on : point out that although it seems likely this will be on the small claims track, it hasn’t yet been allocated to a track, so CPR 31.1(2) doesn’t (yet!) apply. If they did try it on you could also point out that with them being solicitors and with you as a self-represented litigant they shouldn’t use you not knowing the details of the CPR to mislead ........

Edited July 22, 2020 by BazzaS

[Ganymede]

Very good point! 

 

With all the drama about the SAR I forget that this will be allocated to the SCT and not FT. 

 

Express still have a duty to provide disclosure though and should comply with the OP's request. 

[dx100uk]

can you all please stop using quote...

 

just type...

 

makes the thread twice as long...and difficult to read...and find your replies

 

dx

 

[AndyOrch]

I would still utilise CPR 31 irrespective.....until allocation the claim is trackless and can be referred to within a defence which subsequently applies pressure on the court to direct that disclosure in standard disclosure.

 

Under CPR rule 31.12, the Court may make an order pre allocation. for specific disclosure or inspection requiring a party to: • disclose documents or classes of documents specified in the order; • carry out a search to the extent stated in the order; • disclose any documents located in the search.

 

Alternatively possibly consider CPR 18...Under CPR rule 18.1, the court may at any time order a party to clarify any matter which is in dispute in the proceedings or give additional information in relation to any such matter whether or not the matter is contained or referred to in a statement of case by filing and serving a response within the time specified by the court.

 

The response must be verified by a statement of truth (CPR rule 22.1(1)(b)). CPR rule 18 does not apply to small claims (CPR 27.2(1)(f)), but in a small claim the Court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers it appropriate to do so (CPR 27.2(3)). CPR rule 18.1 is subject to CPR 53.3, which protects the identity of the defendant’s sources of information in defamation claims, unless the court orders otherwise.

 

Andy

[Manxman in exile]

Stormy1976 might welcome some advice on what* to send off in respect of CPR 31?  Or she first needs to draft something and ask for comments on it here?  [EDIT:  I think it may just have become more complicated than she was expecting].

 

It's still not clear to me what she hopes to have disclosed and how that will contribute to her defence?

 

 

*Is it just a request for the info Ganymede suggested in #190?

Edited July 22, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[AndyOrch]

Ive not read the finer details of the claim or intended defence...simply posting on how to utilise CPR 31./CPR 18 

[Stormy1976]

Thank you all for your contributions. Much appreciated.

 

I have posted my defence to the court today and a copy to the claimant. I will upload a copy of the statement on this thread at some point.

Kind regards