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    • In terms of whether or not this is a private sale, clearly it will be for a judge to decide. It seems to me that we have somebody here who bred a litter of puppies and has sold several of them or all of them at probably around £1200 each. I think that is very different from selling your own private second-hand car to get what you can for it in order, for instance, to buy another one. Anyway it's for the judge to decide. In terms of whether or not the seller is aware of the defects – if they are a private seller – all it really means is that they are not subject to sale of goods legislation so that a purchaser in a private sale does not have specific protections. After that you have to fall back onto the common law of contract and once again I think that the liabilities are reasonably strict and I still think that even in a private sale if you bought something with defects which was represented to you as being without defects then you would probably have a good case. In this case, the dog has been accompanied by a health certificate and I think that is as good as any kind of representation dog is without defects. I think we are coming to an altogether more interesting issue. Apparently the dental defect with this puppy is observable and could have been detected by any reasonably careful examination carried out by a reasonable professional. But apparently also there is the possibility that there may be a more complicated problem which could be addressed by work costing up to £2000. What I'd like to know is whether this more complicated problem is as a result of the failure to spot the initial problem. Even if the initial problem had been spotted, with this still be a possibility that this more complicated work would be necessary? I suppose what I'm getting to his that at what point does one decide that a defect is an unacceptable defect or simply a risk that comes with purchasing all animals and therefore could still be considered as "satisfactory" because it would meet the reasonable expectations of any reasonable pet owner. To put it bluntly: are we saying here that if you buy an animal is less than genetically perfect, that you are purchasing defective goods and you are entitled to a refund? Does this mean that all animal traders are obliged to ensure that all the animals they sell are genetically perfect? This is dangerous territory: eugenics.  
    • a dn can be issued even on one default payment.
    • I think I still remain to be convinced that a court would not find the seller's offer to take the puppy back and give the OP a full refund both reasonable and acceptable.   Ignoring that this is the sale of a puppy, isn't this more akin to the private sale of a second-hand car?   I don't really know what the phrase:  "I recently bought a puppy from a home breeder. They have never breed dogs before and aren't a licensed business" means.  Is this a business to consumer sale, or is it simply the opportunistic private sale of puppies from a domestic litter?  I think the OP needs to establish this because it's not clear to me - yet.   AIUI, if I as a private individual privately sold, say,  a car with umpteen non-apparent faults or defects with it, but I was honestly unaware of them and could not be expected to be aware of them, then I'm not liable for any breach of contract when those faults and defects manifest themselves to the buyer a week later.  Isn't that what worried private sellers of cars are told here when aggrieved purchasers threaten to sue them?  It's not immediately obvious to me why this is necessarily any different - unless this is clearly a business to consumer sale.   The OP also says:  "Our puppy was sold as having passed a full health check from Vets4Pets", and so far as I can see this isn't disputed.  Unless that health check revealed the dental problem the OP is now complaining about, but the OP never was shown it (seems unlikely that the seller would mention it but not make the results available), then I think the seller may well be entitled to rely on it.  What more could they do to ascertain the health of the puppy?   I think this is not necessarily a clear-cut claim, and from the way the OP describes the breeder I think the question whether this is a consumer sale or a private sale may not have a black or white answer.     1.  The OP mentions following advice to buy puppies bred from a "home pet" (or similar such wording).  Not clear if this was the case here, but if it was, doesn't this suggest a private rather than consumer or trade sale?   2.  The OP also suggests that the health of the puppy was misrepresented, but is this necessarily correct?  They say the puppy was advertised as having had a "full health check", but that's not the same as saying the puppy was actually healthy.  And if it was a private sale, is the seller required to declare health problems they are aware of if they aren't specifically asked?
    • Ok,    I thought it may of helped as their DN stated 2 installments in arrears when it was issued on 10/2/17, but it would infact only have been 1 installment overdue 17/01/17.   I will keep to what I already know and stop over thinking further issues. 😁    
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Hello all.

I'm having some issues getting a refund from Hermes for a lost parcel.

On the 15th of May I bought a shipment label from the Hermes website to deliver a package valued at £130. When I got to the parcel shop I was told I could not print the label, so I bought another shipment label to ship my parcel, again valued at £130.

Fast forward a few weeks and the first parcel has been reported to be delivered at 1.30pm on the 22nd of may. Despite the fact that nobody was recorded on the video camera for one hour either side of that time or that fact that the label was never used.

The second parcel, has been lost. Hermes have admitted they have misplaced the parcel and guided me to submit a claim.As I did not opt for their insurance they have offered a refund of £20. I have not yet accepted this claim. Do I have any right to a full refund? If so, how do I go about it?

Thanks for any help.

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Your story is a bit confusing. I'm not at all clear whether there was one parcel or two parcels. There were certainly two labels but at the beginning of your post I had understood that this was because it was not possible to print out the first one.

Please could you go through it again and explain it a little bit more clearly. Thanks.

However I understand that for at least one parcel – which may have a value of £130 – which is the value which you declared – Hermes offering you only £20 on the basis that you had not bought the insurance.

If this is the case, then I think that our position is that as you have paid the delivery fee, it is completely unnecessary for you to have to purchase insurance against negligent handling of your property by Hermes.

On this basis you could certainly sue them


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Apologies BankFodder.  There was one parcel, two labels but only one label was used. Hermes claim both have been used, but that was not true. 

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Okay. So we are talking about one parcel only. The value was £130 – and this was the value which you declared. This is very important.

Hermes have admitted that they have lost the parcel but they are declining liability because they say that you should have bought their insurance.

You have seen what we have said about this so-called "insurance". As long as the value was properly declared in my view is that if you have paid the delivery fee then it is up to them to insure against their own negligence. There is no reason why you should insure against their negligence.

If you are happy with this reasoning – and if you are prepared to take a legal action then of course we will help you.

You need to understand your risk factor – which is that if you lose then you will lose your claim fee – about £25 and you will lose the allocation fee which for this value may be about £80. You will have to look it up the courts website.

If you win then you will get all of these fees back and of course the hundred and £30 you are looking for plus interest on it. The chances are that Hermes will push you to issue the claim and spend the claim fee. They may also push you to spend the allocation fee – but after that, once they realise that you are serious then it is likely that they will put their hands up and pay you out. However it is not guaranteed and you need to be prepared to lose. You have very high chance of success, in my view.

If you think that you want to take a small claim then you should read around this website about how to bring a small claim in the County Court. It's very straightforward but it is worth knowing the steps in advance which will give you greater confidence.
If you decide to go ahead then you should send them a letter of claim giving them 14 days after which you will issue a claim. Do not bluff. If you are prepared to follow through with your threat then don't make the threat. On day 15 you click off the claim.

We will help you draft the letter of claim and also the particulars of claim.

The particulars of claim don't need to be drafted in a formal language. A very simple statement as to why they are liable – that they lost the parcel – is all you need.

Let us know what you want to do


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Posted (edited)

After reading some more threads on this site and looking at the slide show I would like to go ahead with a small claim against Hermes. I'm just not sure where to begin. 

Edited by murraynt

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Please read my comments here

 

 


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If you have read around and you understand the risk factors and you are happy to begin a small claim in the County Court, and also if you have read around about the steps involved bringing a small claim in the County Court then your next step would be to send a letter of claim.

 

Quote

 


Dear Sir/Mdm



Parcel reference number X X X – claim reference number X X X
Letter of Claim

 

On X X X date I used your services to send a parcel containing X X X (have you told us what was in it) X X X.

The parcel did not arrive at its intended destination and I now understand from yourselves that the parcel has been lost.

I therefore is seeking the value of the parcel at £130 plus the delivery fee of £X X X

 

I am fully aware that you have a reputation for losing or damaging thousands of parcels that have been placed into your care. You can be certain that if you force this to court, that your record will be brought before the judge – including pieces in the media – both newspapers and television – as well as the information relating to your recent label and computer problems which may well have contributed to the loss of my property.

If I do not receive this sum in full within 14 days then I shall issue a claim in the County Court and without any further notice

Yours faithfully

 

 

Once you have sent this letter off, you are committed – and the claim should be issued on day 15. If you still think that this letter is going to produce any results then you had better think again. It will do nothing other than satisfy the pre-action protocol.

 

During the 14 days you should register with the Moneyclaim online website and start preparing your case. It doesn't need any particular form of words. A short very basic particulars of claim is fine.

 

Quote

The defendants provide a courier service. The claimant use their service to transport a parcel containing a X X X value £130.
The defendants lost the parcel.
The claimant seeks the reimbursement of £130 plus £X X X delivery fee plus interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts act 1984.

 

I don't think you need to give them any more information than that at the moment.

For this sort of figure, they may well push you to pay the claim fee and also the hearing fee – but it's unlikely that they will proceed further although now that hearings tend not to be face-to-face but rather on video or by telephone, they may tend to feel that there is less money at risk for them.

In that case you will have to be prepared to present your case. We will help you.


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Thanks for your replies. They are really helpful. 

 

Would it be best to send this letter as an email, on the support thread or a physical copy? 

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Send it by email and also a physical copy


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Thanks Again, 
 


I have sent an email to hermessupport@myhermes.co.uk and I will send the physical letter tomorrow to this address: 
 

Hermes UK

Capitol House,1 Capitol Close

Morley, Leeds, LS27 OWH
United Kingdom

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In the event that they push you to a hearing – you should read this post which I have made this morning very carefully

 

 


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Thank you BankFodder. 
 

I will study the section 47, 48 and 49 of the consumer right act tonight. 

I also replied to the ticket and attached the letter. I've received a very prompt response stating I should have bought insurance, which is to be expected. 

 

Hermes Reponse.PNG

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I think this is a helpful note because not only does it refer to the so-called compensation cover – better even explains that they won't compensate you for lost items if they appear on the prohibited items list.

This as to the unenforceability of the term.

Under the unfair terms provisions in the Consumer Rights Act there is no power in the court to reconstruct the unfair term so that only part of it applies. It doesn't destroy the contract, but the unfair term destroys itself.
It's patently unfair to decline liability for lost items simply because it appears on a prohibited items list.

You should store this safely and add it to your bundle of evidence later


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Now if you want to send them a letter of claim, you should do so.

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm



Parcel reference number – X X X – claim reference number X X X
Letter of Claim

 

On X X X date I used your service to send a parcel under the above reference number.
The parcel did not arrive at the destination and after several exchanges with your customer service staff, I was told that the item was lost.
I was also told that I would not be entitled to make any compensation claim because I had not purchased an additional compensation cover. In fact I was also told that even if I had, if my item was included on your prohibited items list, you would still declined liability for its loss.

My position is that I have paid the delivery fee and it is not for me to insure against the negligence of Hermes. It is for Hermes to protect themselves against liability for their own negligence and not pass the buck onto their customers.

I see this requirement as an unenforceable unfair term designed to exclude liability and to prevent me from taking a legal action.

I am preparing to take you to court. If you force this to a court hearing – you can be certain that I shall be producing evidence from many different sources to show that you systematically lose parcels and decline liability on spurious grounds which are unfair and unenforceable.

The contents of my parcel were valued at £X X X.  plus the delivery fee of £X X X.

If I do not have reimbursement in full within 14 days then I shall issue a claim in the County Court to recover this money from you plus interest and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

 

As I have already indicated, you should only send this letter if you are prepared to issue the claim on day 15. It is almost inconceivable that Hermes will buckle under this threat without issuing the claim papers.

Make sure you have read around the forum and you understand the steps in taking a small claim. Make sure that you understand your risk factors and what will happen if you lose the case.

In the intervening 14 days register on the court service Moneyclaim website and start preparing your claim.

Here is a suggested draft particulars of claim

 

Quote

The claimant used the courier service provided by the defendant courier company to send an item to a third party.
The defendant company has admitted that they have lost the item and yet they refuse to compensate the claimant.
The value of the item sent was X X X. The delivery fee was X X X
The claimant claims full reimbursement of X X X (item value plus delivery fee) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts act 1984.

 


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Hi all. 

I sent the letter yesterday and I've registered on www.moneyclaim.gov.uk. I will update the thread when I hear more. 

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Thank you, make sure you read around and you understand all the steps.


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