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    • get the FOS done and see. i have a feeling you might not need to do the latter.    
    • Noted, thanks re-draft it is then 🙄    If it does go to FOS and its upheld can I also go for the throat and apply to set aside the suspended judgement (consent order) based  CCA  sections 86E not providing default sum notices 86(5) not entitled to enforce agreement  87(1) and 88(2) leading to unlawful repudiation of the credit agreement. Just an idea. 
    • CB ....this conclusion is true.   as for PB, i can assure you that user most probably ( well i know but shouldn't say} holds the record here for the most reported posts by users as well as from those of the site team concerning his posts. if you hold on someones username further info can be seen.   however , a bit like say vodaphone or virgin media , very large companies with millions of customers will get the most complaints made against them...and that equates to posting levels here too. as for 'royalties account holder' that again merely points, by a default label in the software package we use, to the number of posts made.   one could further this by noting were we to agree with all their posts they would be on the siteteam... i will leave you to understand why not .....       don't think anyone did?    regards  DX
    • Is it just that? Oh I thought it was because of all the effort he and others made to rightly bring DCBL to court. But he just got lucky there I suppose. Lucky he didn't bring his complaint to this forum first because if he had of done, he'd be £10K poorer right now. And for something that Peterbard describes as benefitting from being newsworthy, I am struggling to find all the news reports that refer to it.       Confucius  say "he who backpedals, falls off bike."    I'm not surprised in the least that you, a gold account holder on this forum, would adopt a dismissive attitude to this well deserved victory in court against DCBL, however I'm curious as to why you opted to reduce the issues at stake to being 'simply' about ' the EA fell foul of the regulation which defines "relevant premises".   That certainly wasn't any argument that Iain Gould furthered and he's a civil actions lawyer whom, dare I say it, know a hell of a lot more about trespass and misuse of private information than you do.   The judge never mentioned "relevant premises" either. Not during the hearing or in his judgement. And you never mentioned it either prior to know. In fact, in the original  in the original 2018 thread you even went so far as to suggest that whatever address was on the writ was irrelevant because, "interestingly, if the address is not  a requirement it would not be possible to sue the bailiff for wrong attendance under section 66."   Not that your wrongfully held opinion that non debtors are also subject to the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 matters, because as I had already pointed out in the first video because the claimant wasn't suing for wrong attendance under section 66.   He sued for trespass. Part 66 never applied to him because he was not the debtor and never had been. You and the likes of DCBL can disregard that obvious point as much as you like, but bailiffs do not have a blanket immunity from trespass.   Have a look at the article Iain Gould has written on his blog about the case. It might help you understand the tort of trespass in some small way, and might help you adopt a more balanced approach to those poor sods who owed no debt and have had their homes raided and their privacy breached by EAs, and then - to add insult to injury - they come to you looking for help.   What makes it worse is that your defective understanding of when an Enforcement Agents action can give rise to trespass is backed up by your site team members who think it's their job to echo your mistakes not by justifying what you say - because they can't - but by making defamatory remarks at the expense of those who give the 'correct advice'.   Unlike you and your team members I don't hide behind the protection of anonymity. Nobody can hold you to account if you get it wrong, or heaven forbid, if it turns out you  have been working for a firm of debt collectors all along. To add to this, you don't seem to care much about removing libellous remarks from your forum when a legitimate complaint is raised.   To respond to Bank Fodders comment that "At some point in the video it has screenshots of this forum and the narrative suggests that some people agree that an enforcement agent has the power to enter into a property to check on identity. I think that it is intended that the CAG is associated with this belief."   Seriously? I have to point it out to you.   Maybe it has something to do with key members of this forum smearing me on the original thread by saying how wrong my narrative was and then implying I was a Freeman of the Land.   Maybe it had something to do with Gold Member Peter Bard leaving this comment on the same thread that stated:   "The point I was trying to make is that the EA will not be as interested in paperwork as in physical proof that the debtor does or does not live there.   As said there is no requirement for an address on a warrant, in fact the debtor may live at several addresses and the bailiff may attend to serve at any of them. The warrant is against the debtor, not the debtor at an address. It requires only enough info to identify the person.( see CPR wherever it is).   The bailiff will be much more interested in getting in and checking for clothes in wardrobes, sleeping accommodation, letters etc."   I'm sorry if that wasn't enough for you to justify me bringing that point up in the video. I did consider coming here before I completed it and asking those members if they intended to maintain their position that the Enforcement Agent had acted within the law but strangely the forum account I had used to make my first and only posting on this forum in 2018 - to counter the smears - would not allow me to sign in.   Far be it from me to draw any conclusions about my input not being welcome here, I figured Peterbard and some of the key members here would use their creative skills at providing a blanket immunity from civil liability for all EAs by misinterpreting key legislation in their behalf.    It looks like I was right about that also. Unfortunately I have given in to temptation, and am choosing to respond, even though I know how utterly futile it is.
    • There was another poster (Hammy1962) who understood (#3) the distance selling point you were trying to make, but you may have inadvertantly put him off in your subsequent post.  He may still be following this thread.  Wonder if he has any ideas that could possibly help you?    I'm concerned about how you continue if the TS route is not helpful...
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Offered voluntary redundancy whilst on furlough: advice needed!


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Hi guys,

 

I hope that you're all keeping well.

 

I've been furloughed since 22nd April and I received a phone call from the managing director today stating that, due to the situation with covid-19, the firm is having to cut down on costs and are looking at making people redundant. I was told that I would be offered voluntary redundancy and that I wasn't the only employee that was going to be offered this. I was advised that I'd be paid for the three month notice period, would be given £300 for legal advice relating to a settlement agreement and would receive a payment of £2,000 at the end of the notice period. I was also advised that if I didn't accept the offer and was made redundant, I would just receive payment for the notice period. I've been employed by my firm for 3 years and 8 months and under my contract this means that my notice period will be the 3 month period as was stated.

 

I've received an email this evening with a scanned letter that was attached from my employer and I've got a few questions relating to it. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated!

 

1. In setting out the terms for the proposal for voluntary redundancy, the letter says that whilst I will be paid at 100% for my outstanding holidays, I will only be paid at the 80% furlough figure for the 3 months of my notice period. Is this right? I was under the impression that, if I do accept redundancy, I should be receiving 100% of my pay as there was absolutely no mention of this being affected in the agreement to be furloughed (which was literally just a couple of lines long saying that I would be on furlough from 22nd April onwards, for at least 3 weeks and that I would not undertake work for my employer whilst on furlough).

 

2. The letter says that I am not allowed to discuss the contents of the letter with any other employee, aside from the managing director? Is this a normal inclusion? I would like to be able to discuss this with my head of department, who is my immediate manager, but the letter doesn't allow for this unfortunately!

 

3. The letter says that I need to let them know if I accept the proposed voluntary redundancy before 4:00 on Friday next week (the 26th). Given that I'd received the email at 6:00 today, that basically only gives me 4 working days to take advice on this and to consider my position. is there any form of minimum period that would be required as this seems like an awfully short period of time for consideration?

 

4. The letter doesn't mention at all what my position would be if I did not accept the offer and was eventually made redundant, shouldn't that be included?

 

For lack of a better phrase, I feel like I've been shafted a bit with this! I received an email from my employer after the first 3 weeks of being on furlough just to confirm that I wasn't due to go back to work yet and have heard absolutely nothing from them until the phone call this afternoon. No mention or talk of redundancies anywhere until today.  I don't know where I stand legally, but it just doesn't feel like this has been gone about the right way!

 

Am I allowed to ask for more information about the redundancy process such as how many people would be made redundant and what the selection criteria would be?

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this guys and thank you for any advice that you may have, it is greatly appreciated!

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Hi. I'm sorry to hear about your problems. I'm sure people will be along later to advise.

 

While you're waiting for the forum guys to be able to get here, have a look at the ACAS website for information on redundancy because I'm not sure it works the way that your letter says.

 

I don't suggest ringing ACAS because their call centre isn't as good as it was and also it's possible it could put you at the start of a process against your employer, I can't quite remember,

 

HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB,

 

Thank you very much for your reply!

 

I'll definitely check out the ACAS website now - I've used their helpline previously and it was a great help but I can imagine that the call centre is facing its fair share of problems at the moment!

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12 minutes ago, Tactful said:

 

 

1. In setting out the terms for the proposal for voluntary redundancy, the letter says that whilst I will be paid at 100% for my outstanding holidays, I will only be paid at the 80% furlough figure for the 3 months of my notice period. Is this right? 

 

2. The letter says that I am not allowed to discuss the contents of the letter with any other employee, aside from the managing director? Is this a normal inclusion? I would like to be able to discuss this with my head of department, who is my immediate manager, but the letter doesn't allow for this unfortunately!

 

3. The letter says that I need to let them know if I accept the proposed voluntary redundancy before 4:00 on Friday next week (the 26th). Given that I'd received the email at 6:00 today, that basically only gives me 4 working days to take advice on this and to consider my position. is there any form of minimum period that would be required as this seems like an awfully short period of time for consideration?

 

4. The letter doesn't mention at all what my position would be if I did not accept the offer and was eventually made redundant, shouldn't that be included?

 

 

1. Bit iffy, but there is zero case law here to rely on. It's poor spirited but probably not illegal. My in house lawyers can't be sure either way.

2. How many employees are being laid off? If over 20, collective consultation should be going on. 

3. Sounds like the £300 is to explain a settlement agreement. So the deadline of next week will just be to get that issued I think, then a further period where you have a solicitor explain it. For £300 they won't negotiate for you, So if you'd take it if it was say 100% pay during notice, now is the time to say that. Of real value is getting an agreed reference. Minimum periods depend on how many people are involved but this is VR, nor compulsory. So both parties can agree a deadline between them.

4. I would assume stat. redundancy; holiday pay (which they'll make you take during furlough..) notice period and with your length of service a max of about £538, plus no agreed reference.

 

Good questions to ask

- how many people are impacted, how many jobs to be lost from how many people?

- what alternatives to redundancy have been considered?

- what's the selection criteria - right now it may be "who has put their hand up"?

- if over 20 people, who are the employee reps?

 

Em

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Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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5 minutes ago, Emmzzi said:

1. Bit iffy, but there is zero case law here to rely on. It's poor spirited but probably not illegal. My in house lawyers can't be sure either way.

2. How many employees are being laid off? If over 20, collective consultation should be going on. 

3. Sounds like the £300 is to explain a settlement agreement. So the deadline of next week will just be to get that issued I think, then a further period where you have a solicitor explain it. For £300 they won't negotiate for you, So if you'd take it if it was say 100% pay during notice, now is the time to say that. Of real value is getting an agreed reference. Minimum periods depend on how many people are involved but this is VR, nor compulsory. So both parties can agree a deadline between them.

4. I would assume stat. redundancy; holiday pay (which they'll make you take during furlough..) notice period and with your length of service a max of about £538, plus no agreed reference.

 

Good questions to ask

- how many people are impacted, how many jobs to be lost from how many people?

- what alternatives to redundancy have been considered?

- what's the selection criteria - right now it may be "who has put their hand up"?

- if over 20 people, who are the employee reps?

 

Em

 

Hi Em,

 

That's brilliant, thank you very much for all of your help with my questions and for the questions that I should be raising with my employer as well!

 

At the moment I am leaning towards taking it even if it is the 80% figure for the 3 months rather than 100%, but yes it definitely did feel poor spirited reading that! I had been expecting to receive some new like this at some point because the work for my department has just completely gone at our firm now, but I felt a bit hurt by the furlough figure!

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Posted (edited)

Ask. Shy bairns get nowt! They will probably agree; a few hundred more to not have go go down the mandatory route makes their life a little easier.  If not, well, you tried and don't need to wonder what if.

 

They also want you to agree while the government is paying most of your notice pay. Stalling into another month hurts their wallet.

Edited by Emmzzi
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Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Thanks Em!

 

I am definitely overly shy with most things, but I'll ask about receiving 100% for the 3 months and see how it goes! It won't hurt to try at least :D 

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  • 1 month later...

It definitely has to be 100% or they have pulled a fast one on you - even before the govt clarified on this I found advise to this end that it has to be pre-furlough pay.

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