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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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Capital One denying chargeback


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My wife is attempting to do a chargeback on a purchase that was fraudulent.

She bought cricket tickets for her Dad, who lives in South Africa for his birthday.

Date of transaction was 17th June 2019.

Date of cricket match was 4th of February. 
 

After chasing the company for many months, the e-tickets were emailed to us, which we forwarded on to her Dad.

He printed the tickets and arrived at the cricket match to be told the tickets were fake.

 

All of a sudden numerous reviews started popping up on the internet from other people saying they had been given fake tickets.

Company has now disappeared.

 

My wife reported the chargeback request on day 118, they got back to her on day 119 with a web form, which was emailed on the same day back to Capital One.

What do we do now as this is their response:

 

Thank you for your letter in regards to the transaction to INSTATICKET SA (the 'Merchant') for £244.87.

 

We are sorry to hear about the problems you have encountered with the Merchant. We have considered two ways in which we may have been able to help you recover the sums paid by you to the Merchant:

 

1. Chargeback; and

2. A claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('the Act').

 

1.Chargeback

 

We have certain rights to claim a refund of a disputed transaction from a merchant's bank on a customer's behalf; this is known as a chargeback. However, there are certain restrictions and timeframe limitations set out by Mastercard as to whether we can claim a refund. Unfortunately, we are unable to pursue a chargeback on your behalf on this occasion because more than 120 days have elapsed since the date of the event for which the tickets were purchased.

 

We have also considered whether you may have a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the 'Act').

2. Section 75 of the Act ('Section 75') Section 75 can offer protection to consumers who use a credit card to purchase goods or services in part or full.

 

However, in order for a claim to be considered, the following conditions must all be satisfied.

1. The claim must be made within the time limits set out in the Limitation Act 1980 – these time limits are different to those that apply to chargebacks and is usually 6 years;

 

2. Section 75 must be 'engaged' – This means that the relevant transaction must satisfy the criteria set out in the Act,

including:

- There must be a direct 3-way agreement between the debtor (you), the creditor (Capital One) and the supplier who provided the goods or services that are being complained about; and - The price of the goods or services purchased must be at least £100 but not exceed £30,000; and

 

3. There must be a proven claim against the supplier

– This means that there must be a proven claim for misrepresentation or breach of contract against the supplier.

A customer will not be entitled to a refund under Section 75 of the Act unless all of the above conditions are satisfied.

 

Summary of investigation - The transaction was for 4 tickets to an event at a total cost of £244.87, making each ticket's cost under £100.

 

It is therefore considered that you do not have a claim under Section 75 of the Act and, as such, Capital One is not jointly liable for any misrepresentation or breach of contract by the Merchant. This is because the value of the goods or services is not within the monetary requirements set by the Act.

 

Unfortunately, we cannot assist you with your claim on this occasion as we are unable to recover the disputed amount via chargeback or consider a claim under Section 75 of the Act. I'm sorry this may not be the response you were hoping for.

 

If you have any further questions relating to your dispute, please give us a call on 0333 000 0205 Mon-Fri 9am-5pm.

 

Kind regards,

 

Darren Carlile

Head of Customer Operations

 

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It sounds extraordinary – and I wonder if there is really any basis for this.

I can imagine that the entire payment went through as a single transaction with a single transaction number.

I would suggest sending an SAR to get all of this information and at the same time – but in a completely different letter in a different envelope tell them that you are making a formal complaint and that you want it escalated to the FOS.

Send the SAR straightaway. Contact them and begin the formal complaint immediately. Read our customer services guide if you do anything on the telephone. But also in terms of making sure that they have your complaint down the way that you want it, make sure you get the person on the phone to repeat exactly what they are writing down. Don't stand for any deviation

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Hi Bankfodder,

 

Yes, correct. Purchase went through as one payment, one order number with tickets x 4 in order, subtotal and payment amount all in one order.

 

I had been nagging my wife for months to sort it out, eventually she raised a dispute through their secure msg system. please verify my dates are correct:

 

Date of match: 4th Feb 2020

Date chargeback request done through secure message on capital one: 1st June 2020

This equals 118 days?

 

2nd June advised to complete form and email back - Day 119.

Form completed and sent back with copies of numerous emails sent to company on 2nd June.

 

I'm going to do an online complaint now.

 

In their email they state:

 

Unfortunately, we are unable to pursue a chargeback on your behalf on this occasion because more than 120 days have elapsed since the date of the event for which the tickets were purchased.

 

Does this mean THEY cant do it because it has taken them 8 days to look at it, pushing it over 120 days? Or are they implying we took longer than 120 days to report it, which we didn't. I consider the secure message on day 118 as my wife notifying them.

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the 120 days under chargeback runs from why YOU realise it is appropriate to your situation. not 120 from the transaction date!!

 

the correct total time from date of transaction is 540 days ....so Cap1 are wRONG.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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dx, correct! I know it was tight leaving it to day 118, but that's the wife not wanting to talk to strangers on the phone :(

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Re section 75 ....if you bought four items that together cost more than £100, but each cost less than £100, Section 75 would not apply and the card company wouldn't usually be liable....stick to the chargeback.

 

 

3)Subsection (1) does not apply to a claim—

(a)under a non-commercial agreement, F1. . .

(b)so far as the claim relates to any single item to which the supplier has attached a cash price not exceeding [F2£100] or more than [F3£30,000] [F4, or]

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75

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28 minutes ago, UKDomains said:

Does this mean THEY cant do it because it has taken them 8 days to look at it, pushing it over 120 days? Or are they implying we took longer than 120 days to report it, which we didn't. I consider the secure message on day 118 as my wife notifying them.

 

120 days is not from transaction date.

its from when she realised chargeback was applicable to the transaction...think of it like a PPI reclaim..she did not realise she could use chargeback..

 

she has 540 days to raise the complaint from the transaction date  cap1 are WRONG.. nothing new there.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Online complaint done. Auto-acknowledged by them. Doing SAR now.

 

Thanks for comments, I will update once we hear back from them.

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Quote

How long do I have to make a chargeback claim?

You should make a claim as soon as you identify the problem or are concerned about a transaction, as your card issuer usually needs to start the chargeback process within 120 days from when you made the transaction or when you were due to receive the goods or services.

 

In your case  .. 4th of February. 

 

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/area-of-expertise/cards/chargeback-and-section-75

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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