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VCS ANPR PCN claimform - berkeley precinct sheffield


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hi, i have received a pcn/ntk stating driver overstayed by 25mins. appeal sent stating letter received late.

 

parking company- vehicle control services ltd (member of IPC)

 

no ticket , letter /PCN/ NTK received through post - issued 11/01/19, received on 15/01/19

 

appeal emailed to them and they have replied and given me options, either give driver details, appeal on behalf of driver with their permissoin or pay reduced fine,

 

dont really want to pay them, or give them driver details,

there was no ticket left on windscreen, and i received letter on 15 jan. which is over the 2 working days they allocate for receipt , however, i cannot prove this as the envelope is not dated., and they state that the onus is on customer to prove late receipt.

 

i have looked at a previous case about berkely precinct on this forum , where the claimant from wales fought the case for over a year, but unfortunately , lost at court.

 

i would be grateful if any members could advise me whether its worth taking this further or shall i just pay and rid myself of stress.

 

this is the reply i received after appealing

 

We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the above numbered Charge Notice.You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 on the Notice issued to you; however we have not cited POFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for the Charge as the vehicle keeper].

 

It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below:

 

1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.

 

2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that you are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS.Please ensure that correspondence is submitted through the portal in order to correctly adhere with the appeals process.

 

OR3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 and using a valid Credit or Debit Card to make payment. It is your responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our office by the date specified.As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above actions to be complied with.

Edited by dx100uk
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i don't want to make any more mistakes , as i am not really familiar with legal stuff. and cannot really afford to lose any more money, so i just decided to cough up and take this as a learning experi

Thanks for letting us know, we all make mistakes, so don't be hard on yourself. 

i think you should contact the court - tell them that an offer has been made and accepted and you are waiting for your money - ask them to delay the filing date for the aq.

As they aren't holding the keeper liable they can only claim from the driver. They cannot assume that the keeper was the driver. If they could, POFA 2012 would be completely unnecessary.

 

If you have evidence that you were elsewhere, so much the better. Receipts, witnesses etc.

Edited by Mrs O'Frog
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please complete this:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(3-Viewing)-nbsp

 

thread tittle updated for clarity of PPC involved

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s -  would collapse overnight.

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs - that's why they will never tell you they are not bailiffs and have absolutely zero legal powers on any debt.

 

 

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I received a parking charge notice from Athena APNR.

They do the Lidl car parks.

They have gone after the registered keeper of the vehicle claiming I am responsible as I am the keeper.

 

At the time of the offence I wasn't the driver.

The car is owned by me as I am disabled and it used for hospital trips etc.

As I understand it the keeper is only liable under certain circumstances, the owner is under no obligation to tell these people anything.

 

I'm sick and tired of bullies like these parking companies claiming you have infringed some petty rule and now must pay an extortionate penalty.

The Department of Transport state that charges must be reasonable for the loss to the landowner.

They can't be so huge that they become a penalty.

 

You have no obligation to tell these parasites anything.

As it is a civil debt the onus is on them to prove their case, not for you admit it and do their job for them.

Write back and tell them that you have informed the driver and leave it at that.

I asked Athena for a photo of the alleged driver.

Needless to say I am still waiting.

Edited by dx100uk
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For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 29/12/2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 11/01/2019

 

3 Date received 15/01/2019, (however there is no date stamp on envelope)

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] NO

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? YES- time of entry/time of exit

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] YES unfortunately, i did not save a copy, as i copied a template letter from mse site and just added, that the ntk/pcn arrived late and there was no notice on the car.

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up YES

 

We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the above numbered Charge Notice.

 

You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 on the Notice issued to you; however we have not cited 2012 nor stated that you are liable for the Charge as the vehicle keeper].

 

It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.

 

In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below:

 

1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.

 

2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that you are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS.Please ensure that correspondence is submitted through the portal in order to correctly adhere with the appeals process.OR

 

3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 and using a valid Credit or Debit Card to make payment. It is your responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our office by the date specified.As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above actions to be complied with.

 

7 Who is the parking company? EXCEL / VCS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Berkeley precinct, sheffield

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC is named on letter, (no BPA or IAS)

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

 

i have had to remove some links as my post was not going through

 

copy the windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions...

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Just bear in mind that an Appeal can be a double edged sword, and usually not best option.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Just bear in mind that an Appeal can be a double edged sword, and usually not best option.

 

so, do you think its advisable to pass notice to driver and request payment, to avoid stress and hassle?

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Hang fire and wait for the experts look in, but you have already given yourself potential hassle by contacting a PPC before posting here. Do nothing until DX, EB and others look in

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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lots of threads here already on this car park

go read them all then you'll be better informed.

 

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=berkeley+precinct+sheffield+&sa=Search+CAG

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s -  would collapse overnight.

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs - that's why they will never tell you they are not bailiffs and have absolutely zero legal powers on any debt.

 

 

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so, do you think its advisable to pass notice to driver and request payment, to avoid stress and hassle?

 

Certainly not! They cannot hold the keeper liable as they have failed to meet the requirements of POFA 2012 (and have admitted this). Only the driver could be held liable for any charge and you are under NO obligation to tell them who that is. Do you have any proof of being elsewhere? Were you at work, shopping, visiting friends? If you have location enabled in your phone you may be able to get a record of where you were on the day.

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Just follow the advice on here and it is likely you won't pay a bean.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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unfortunately , dont have a smart phone, just normal old type one, which doesnt have location settings.

but witness can say i was with them

 

Quote
lots of threads here already on this car park

 

go read them all then you'll be better informed.

 

 

 

i have looked at these, most of them are quite old, and the recent one i mentioned in my first post lost at court

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Normally the advice would be not to reply, but since you have already engaged with them and were not the driver I would recommend a final, curt p-off letter something along the lines of the following:

 

Ref PCN xxxxxx VRN xxxxxxx

 

Thank you for clarifying that your Notice to Keeper does not comply with the requirements of POFA 2012 and you are not seeking to use the Act to transfer liability from the driver at the time, to me, the keeper.

 

I note with amusement that you have invented a right to assume that the keeper is the driver, but as barrister Henry Michael Greenslade stated in his 2015 POPLA report “There is no reasonable presumption in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort.” I assume you are now going to claim that Elliot V Loake applies, when we both know that it doesn't. A civil parking dispute is clearly not on all fours with a criminal case supported by forensic evidence. Tell simple Simon to change into his Excel hat and see if he can remember when the judges told him not to be so silly about his EvL claims (Excel v Mr C C8DP37F1 Stockport 31/10/2016 and Excel v Mr B C7DP8F83 at Sheffield 14/12/2016 just to help!)

 

For the avoidance of all doubt, I was NOT the driver at the time of the alleged incident. I have witnesses who are prepared to testify under oath that I was elsewhere. I am not required to name the driver and I will not be doing so. As you are now aware that I have no liability in this matter, if you continue to pursue me it will be considered vexatious harassment and I will be applying for a full costs recovery order should you choose to abuse the court process by initiating a claim when, as already proven, it is bound to fail.

 

I do not expect to hear from you again, or any agents on your behalf, other than to confirm that the notice has been cancelled and my details removed from your database.

 

Love and kisses xxx

 

I would ask your witness(es) to make notes of where you were on the day now, before it's 2 years down the line and everyone forgets. Write something up and keep it safe. They have 6 years to raise a claim so hang onto those notes!

 

Don't act straight away - hopefully Ericsbrother will see this and give his view as he's much more experienced than I.

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until or unless you get a letter of claim under PAP rules

it might be better not to invite pointless letter tennis?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s -  would collapse overnight.

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs - that's why they will never tell you they are not bailiffs and have absolutely zero legal powers on any debt.

 

 

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Already answered that

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s -  would collapse overnight.

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs - that's why they will never tell you they are not bailiffs and have absolutely zero legal powers on any debt.

 

 

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right, they say you are not liable u8nder the POFA so what more do you want?

 

they are stuffed and they admit it and the rest of what they say is they will unlawfully harass you regardless becuse no-one will send them to prison for it.

 

the end.

 

they are dishonest and greedy so i would be ignoring them until they get to the point of sending a proper lba under the pap and then rip into them once again.

 

Mrs O'frog has dug out soem of the past misadventures of Simple-Simon Renhsaw-Smith so they are not ignorant of the law or the facts of the matter so if you do feel ike you should say something that will do nicely. it also shows you ave tried to settle the matter and so any court claim they make will most likely fail the reasonablenes test

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos
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thanks for explaining clearly, i will email them a letter similar to Mrs O'frogs post and hopefully they wont contact me again.

 

i cannot use the reply icon in email they have sent because it states -' NO REPLY' at beginning of email , so i will have to try and find an alternative one where i can contact them,

 

or failing this i will have to send letter through post, however, i would prefer to email

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If you have to send via ordinary post send it first class and ask for a free certificate of posting from the post office which means it is deemed as delivered 2 working days later. Don't send recorded delivery as they have form for refusing to sign for bad news, then you just have proof that it wasn't delivered. Keep the certificate with a copy of the letter and everything else - keep everything safe for 6 years.

 

If they do write back afterwards just ignore everything until you get a lba, then come back here for further advice.

 

I know my letter may sound rude in places, but you have to appear hard with them - no please or thank you, just demand and insist, otherwise they smell weakness and prey on the vulnerable. Hyenas.

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thanks for the sound advice

 

Quote
I know my letter may sound rude in places, but you have to appear hard with them - no please or thank you, just demand and insist, otherwise they smell weakness and prey on the vulnerable. Hyenas.

 

i have found their email address, so i will be sending them an email, using the info you have provided in one of your previous posts.

 

just one quick question - should i write in addition that the pcn arrived later than the 14 days .

 

contravention date 29/12/18

 

issue date 11/1/19

 

received 15/01/19, i cannot prove this as the envelope was not date stamped

 

please advise

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Don't email, it just gives them an address to hound you on snail mail only is best way.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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  • dx100uk changed the title to VCS ANPR PCN - berkeley precinct sheffield

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