VCS Spycar PCN PAPLOC - now claimform - no stopping - East Midlands Airport

[FTMDave]

Send it to Elms.

 

Send by normal 2nd class post - but get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

[Alaska101]

lovely @FTMDave

[Alaska101]

so Elms have replied with all the requested docs. They did say they were not obliged as CPR31 only deals with larger claims.

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, Alaska101 said:

They did say they were not obliged as CPR31 only deals with larger claims.

no, i expect it says CPR doesn't apply to a fast track claim. however as this claim has not even been allocated by the court yet , how can they 'guess' it IS a high value claim and will be fast track, .. it wont anyway its too small.. so CPR does apply ..usual twaddle designed to confuse.

 

so scan up everything they have sent after redacting as JPG's to ONE multipage PDF please

read upload carefully

 

dx

 

[Alaska101]

Please ignore my previous post. Elms have only provided response to point 03 (see below) of CPR31 request. I have attached all the docs they sent me (took me hours to convert 267mb pdf to 4.2mb lol). 

They have neither provided any contract nor proof of planning permission etc. See Attached.

Any furtrher guidance would be much appreciated. Thank you

 

 

1. The contract between Vehicle Control Services Limited and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name. 

2. Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.

3. Copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from Vehicle Control Services Limited & Elms Legal Limited to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

4. Elms Response with Docs_Redac.pdf

[Alaska101]

On 30/03/2021 at 13:37, dx100uk said:

no, i expect it says CPR doesn't apply to a fast track claim. however as this claim has not even been allocated by the court yet , how can they 'guess' it IS a high value claim and will be fast track, .. it wont anyway its too small.. so CPR does apply ..usual twaddle designed to confuse.

 

so scan up everything they have sent after redacting as JPG's to ONE multipage PDF please

read upload carefully

 

dx

 

 

below is the exact wording of their response.

 

I am writing to you with regards to t he above reference number.

 

Upon review of your letter dated 19/03/ 2021making a request under CPR 31.14, I would like to refer you to CPR 31 .1(2) where it states: "This Part applies to all claims except a claim on the small claims track”

 

As this matter will be part of the Small Claims Track as the amount claimed is less than £10,000.00, CPR 31 does not apply to this claim; however, please find enclosed an evidence pack for your perusal.

 

Please be advised that as you have filed an acknowledgement of service, you now have until 15/04/ 2021 to file and serve a defence or a County Court Judgment may be entered against you. Please be further advised that if this matter proceeds to a Small Claims hearing, we will be filing and serving a full witness statement setting out all of the evidence that we wish to rely upon.

[Alaska101]

I have looked around and compiled below points for my defence so far. 

As Elms have not provided any contract with EMA or any planning permission so I'm not too sure if i can assert whether claimant had any contract in place with the landowner at the time of alleged contravention.

Please have a look and advise further. 

 

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded OR registered keeper of *******

2.  The land is covered by its own byelaws so not "relevant land" under the POFA and that the byelaws create a supremacy of contract over VCS signage so no liability created.
3. The signage is prohibitive in nature and not a genuine offer of a contract for consideration. In any case it is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. 

4. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[FTMDave]

I've edited your post as the registration number was showing.

 

Forum regular dx always emphasises not to play your cards too early against the other side.  The reason was shown recently where a Cagger filed a long defence full of excellent legal reasons why he/she was in the right - which gave the PPC's solicitors months to think up lies to counter those points.

 

You are of course right about bye-laws and prohibition but I'm thinking maybe it's best not to tell Simon you know this information.  If you simply file now that you didn't enter a contract with VCS then later in the WS that can be fleshed out to state WHY you didn't' enter a contract - bye-laws and prohibition.

[Alaska101]

absolutely agree with you Dave. I have edited the defence for now. what you reckon?

 

1.     The Defendant is the recorded OR registered keeper of ........

2.     The signage is prohibitive in nature and not a genuine offer of a contract for consideration. In any case it is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. 

3.     The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[dx100uk]

stop putting up your registration number!

 

edited out for the 2nd time.

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, Alaska101 said:

As this matter will be part of the Small Claims Track as the amount claimed is less than £10,000.00, CPR 31 does not apply to this claim

as i said they can't guess until it is actually allocated to track by a court.

[FTMDave]

I would split point 2 so you both keep prohibition but have a catch-all point about anything that stopped a contract being formed.  So

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded OR registered keeper of *****

2.  The signage is prohibitive in nature and not a genuine offer of a contract for consideration. 

3.  In any case it is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. 

4.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

You have some time yet.  See if anyone else comments, and if not file it after the Easter weekend.

 

 

 

[Alaska101]

21 hours ago, dx100uk said:

stop putting up your registration number!

 

edited out for the 2nd time.

 

dx

 

oooops so sorry 

[Alaska101]

17 hours ago, FTMDave said:

I would split point 2 so you both keep prohibition but have a catch-all point about anything that stopped a contract being formed.  So

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded OR registered keeper of *****

2.  The signage is prohibitive in nature and not a genuine offer of a contract for consideration. 

3.  In any case it is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. 

4.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

You have some time yet.  See if anyone else comments, and if not file it after the Easter weekend.

 

 

 

Top Man! will do 

[lookinforinfo]

Once they do send their contract and witness statement please post it up so that we can point out their weaknesses which strengthen your case.

[Alaska101]

Ok @lookinforinfo will do! 

[Alaska101]

So I have received a "Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track" from Northampton County court. I have attached a redacted copy. It puts a lot of emphasis on mediation. I believe we are not going to mediate? any help would be appreciated. Thank You

5. Notice of Proposed Allocation to Small Claims Track_Redacted.pdf

[Alaska101]

thanks @Andyorch for this link about how to proceed on "small court claims allocation"  here 

 

But I have a couple of Questions if anyone can answer please:

1. Am I right to think that Form EX730 (which i have received from County court) is just for information and I do not have to send it back with N180?

2. NO to Mediation (A1) since its a parking claim?

3. YES to C1/Small claims Track I believe (not a question).

4. NO to Expert Evidence?

5. I am away from UK for work between 02-May-21 and 09-Jun-21, should I mention these dates in D4/Hearing? and If I do would this have any negative impact on my case?

6. I also have received another Form. There's no name or No it. But its attached to EX730 (before the first page of EX730) and requires some info. Please check my uploaded file in previous Post.

 

Thank You

Edited April 13, 2021 by Alaska101
Spelling

[AndyOrch]

Quote

1. Am I right to think that Form EX730 (which i have received from County court) is just for information and I do not have to send it back with N180? Correct

 

2. NO to Mediation (A1) since its a parking claim? Correct

 

3. YES to C1/Small claims Track I believe (not a question). Correct

 

4. NO to Expert Evidence? Correct

 

5. I am away from UK for work between 02-May-21 and 09-Jun-21, should I mention these dates in D4/Hearing? and If I do would this have any negative impact on my case? Yes and no

 

6. I also have received another Form. There's no name or No it. But its attached to EX730 (before the first page of EX730) and requires some info. Your not doing mediation so disregard.

 

Andy

[Alaska101]

lovely Thank you @Andyorch

[Alaska101]

So VCS has sent me a letter (Attached) saying Elms Legal are no longer representing them. They have requested I settle for £175 within 14 days or they would continue with the claim. 

My N180 response to Elms went out on 13th (a day before the attached letter was dated/typed) so I guess either I can ignore VCS request or be a little generous and send them a copy of N180 too as I am not negotiating?

7. Elms Service Termination - VCS_Redacted.pdf

[FTMDave]

This is Simple Simon's latest wheeze, he did exactly the same with another Cagger a few days ago.  We advised the other motorist to ignore it.  However, just to be sure that VCS have no excuses regarding not receiving the documentation, I would be tempted to send them a short letter

 

Dear Simple Simon,

 

Re: Claimform xxxxx, PCN xxxxx

 

enclosed is a copy of my N180 response to your former solicitors Elms Legal.

 

Yours,

 

However, there's no rush, hang on and see what the other regulars think during the day. 

 

BTW, hang on to this letter.  In their WS VCS will lie and try to justify the £60 Unicorn Food Tax they have made up by saying they do not normally deal with legal matters - yet here you have a letter from their Litigation Department!  The e-mail address  is [email protected]!  That said, given the quality & depth of legal knowledge that Jake has shown in the past he's probably the tea boy, but hey, hoisted by your own ...

[Alaska101]

OK @FTMDave

Will hang fire on this fror a couple of days until I get more feedback.

[FTMDave]

If no-one has other ideas, send it off on Saturday with a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

Address it to Simon Renshaw-Smith, Vehicle Control Services, P1 Europa Link, Sheffield Business Park ...

[Alaska101]

Sent. Thank You