VCS PCN Claimform - Broomfield Developements Broomspring Close. S37XA ***Claim Dismissed***

[scotswestie]

Good Morning ericsbrother, thanks for your advice.  I would just like to point out I am not “trying to be smart” I was just making people aware that it was Trike that was involved, nothing more nothing less.

 

i know it a motor vehicle, I had to:

1. Insure it to be public highway.

2. Pay road tax.

3. SORN it when off road.

 

i will get pictures off signs ASAP.

 Thanks.

[ericsbrother]

OK, my advice is stick to what is relevant in a fight about contracts. the reason you were there is irrelevant UNLESS you were invited there by the landowner rather than being there for what I will call  for arguments sake a normal reason like visiting a resident.

 

So the contract is offered by the signage but VCS didnt manage all of the land and it wasnt/isnt clear exactly where their responsibilities started and stopped as far as geography goes as some of the roads there were already adopted before the properties were built.

 

Piccies of what is there now and archived piccies from Google or wherever are a must because they will say that they were in charge of everywhere and they will say that such and such signs were there at the time without actually providing hard evidence of such a claim. what they will say is a stock picture of a sign is the one that was there in 18 differetn sports and they were all illuminated by arc lamp or whatever they think they need to say to pull the wool over the judges eyes.

 

Be ready to knock that down

[scotswestie]

Hi ericsbrother, thanks for that piece of advice.  I am at present trying to get my ducks in a row.

 

1. I will try and google the site around dates visit, for any pict of signs and numbers off, location.

2. Get pictures off current signs.  As above 1,

3. Prepare a defence which should be in by June 29 2020, my calculation.  I think this should be short and to the point, any advice will be appreciated..

 

Another point I’ve heard they may offer conciliation service, what is the advice on this.

 

Thanks.

Edited June 4, 2020 by scotswestie

[ericsbrother]

Yep, your defence at this point is an outline and only needs to be bullet points but you will need to show something  will be added later.

 

For this reason a simple " no keeper liability" or "no breach of contract" wont suffice but is a decent point 1 out of say 4 points ( by all means use both if they apply) but add a little more without writing a  book

 

for example

no keeper liability- the claimant failed to create one under the POFA and the defendant denies being the driver at the time for no breach of contract you could add 

 

(a) the signage at the site is inadequate to be considered an offer or

(b) the claimed breach is not a contractual condition on the signage at the site

 

you see what I mean?

enough detail to show there is a defence but not reams of stuff at this stage as they will probably drop the claim before you have to write and collate all of your evidence.

 

carry on collecting it is if they are going to see you in court but dont waste reams of paper on them at this time.

It also prevents them from seeing your full hand before you have to play it

 

no to mediation, not relevant to this type of claim.

Works well for when you sue your builder for a botched job where he has done some work with a value to be determined

[scotswestie]

hi ericsbrother, thanks for that advice.  The points you have given me are what I was thinking, but you made them better, I will put a bit more meat on them,  but not as you say write a book or give to much away.

 

Thanks.

[brassnecked]

Yes bullet point short sweet and open to filling with detail later if it gets to Witness Statement time.

[dx100uk]

no don't fluff them out

less is more!!

[scotswestie]

ok dx100uk, I will keep it short and sweet as advised.

 

Thanks.

Edited June 5, 2020 by scotswestie

[dx100uk]

don't file it yet though!!

[brassnecked]

Now there's an offer you can't refuse  If you could do a plan a rough sketch to show what sign is where it would help as well. VCS often incluse ghost signs in their pack, as in weren't there at tine of an invoice., or they have Excel on them.

[dx100uk]

if not stop fretting and get on with reading up on the court process and whats to come in the same threads here already

 

thread tidied

[ericsbrother]

as said above, you need a plan of the area with an indication of where the signs are.

 

This is important for several reasons, firstly there is no sgn at the entrance to the private land from the public highway so difficult for VCS to say that you were warned/notified,

 

secondly, as the sign refers to particular places each bay or group of bays that they manage should have a sign as there can be no assumption that a sign on the opposite side of the raod applies to the bays you have photographed

 

and lastly, the sign isnt an offer of a contract, it is a jumble of 3 different things,

namely an invitation to treat (no contract),

a notice of exclusion ( no contract)  and

an expression of an unlawful penalty as there is no offer of  terms and nothing to suggest how you may park in places that are not designagted bays to attract such a charge ofr breach of contract when there is no contract.

 

If the sign said outside of designagted bays you have to park in such a manner( describe how) and if you park contrary to those conditions we will bill your for £100 that might be different.

 

VCS dont give a stuff though, they will rely on you being susceptible to bullying by them to pay up rather than actually have to attend a court hearing and explain themselves BUT they will get their employees to write a pack of lies and make false statements about their rights,

the signage and

so forth and

hope that you trip over your own feet in panic and give them a sniff of victory.

 

They get thousands of walkover victories at court so you will have to put a decent defence together even through they dont deserve your time on this.

 

For the moment all you need is short bullet points and reading their signs etc I would offer the following in your submission

the applicable points already suggested regarding lack of contract plus "the amount claimed is an unlawful penalty charge not a contractual sum".

 

your piccies and other onfo, esp previous cases that are easily searchable will be enough to explain this when you have to submit the Witness Statement

 

 your point about the vehicle being a trike can work to your advantage because the condition about displaying a permit in the front windscreen suggest firstly that there is more than one windscreen and therefore that the condition only applies to cars or enclosed vehicles.

 

This is about performance of contracts rather than pedantics on what is a motor vehicle so can that condition ever apply to you?

if not that doesnt mean you cant park there it just means that you cant consider and accept thier offer.

 

This howwever is a minor point in the grand scheme of things but stil worth looking into later on as being one of those things that tips the balance 1% in your favour

 

so write up these 3 or 4 bullet points and show us here what you have done before you submit and when you do file the defence dont change anything to try and make it more flowery of seem more legal like,

 

there are certain things that lawyers say that we do use such as the terms claimant ( them) and defendant ( ie you) rather than naming them or yourself because you are at some point challenging the liability for the charge and driver/your name/I/he can get confused as to who is saying what and in what capacity.

 

[scotswestie]

Hi, ericsbrother, thank you so much for that informative post.  I am going to revisit site tomorrow, I will count  all the signs in situ.  I will then take pictures and rough diagram where they are placed., in-relation to the Trike.

 

i will put the four bullet point in initial defence  you suggested as they seem to apply perfectly as to the Info I have looked up to date.

 

There is no chance of myself backing down, I’m in for the duration, if they want my money it will cost them in time and effort.  I know you are right that they try and frighten people into paying I’n many ways, deception the most obvious and bullshit.

 

I was in Black Watch 20 years, I can smell bullshit at 600  yards, and I’m not easily intimidated.

 

Thanks again.

Edited June 8, 2020 by scotswestie

[ericsbrother]

you will need to do a screen grab of the google satellite image of the site and mark where the signs are on that so you have the picture plan for the whole site and be able to show where they are in relation to your bike.

 

The really important thing is there is no sign by the bays where you parked and combined with the lack of sign at the entrance they cnat show that they made things clear (anyway their signs are pants but that is another point)

[scotswestie]

Yes, I am going to do that and mark them on overhead google map pict.  They have a no parking with a threat to clamp, will I just ignore that?
 

Also I have tried to find a backdated pict for 2015 for that site but can’t work out how to do it, anybody have any advice.

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

no clamping..that went out the window in 2012!!

 

 

[scotswestie]

Is this ok?

 

pix.pdf

[brassnecked]

Yes that neatly ties in the pictures with the plan.

[scotswestie]

Hi brassnecked, I’m glad I got that right. I now need to start assembling my witness statement for if and when it goes to court.  I know I need to submit the 4 bullet point defence ericsbrother advised by 29 June.

 

i sent CPR  to them, they have until 14 June to reply, what happens if they don’t reply?
 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

you don't want then too, think about it...…...

[brassnecked]

If they don't respond its more good stuff for rebutting stuff they rely on in their Witness Statement.

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

set yourself a reminder upon defence filing.

 

 

[scotswestie]

Ok, thanks all goodnight.

[scotswestie]

Good Morning,  I would be grateful if someone can clarify the date I have to submit defence by.  The court paper were issued 28 May 2020.  I did my AOS online on the 30 May 2020, I think my defence should be in by 29 June 2020, am I correct?

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

On 31/05/2020 at 12:57, dx100uk said:

follow this

you DONT send an SAR but a CPR 

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
..
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
.

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

always re-read your thread......

already explained in post 12 repeated above..