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    • In terms of whether or not this is a private sale, clearly it will be for a judge to decide. It seems to me that we have somebody here who bred a litter of puppies and has sold several of them or all of them at probably around £1200 each. I think that is very different from selling your own private second-hand car to get what you can for it in order, for instance, to buy another one. Anyway it's for the judge to decide. In terms of whether or not the seller is aware of the defects – if they are a private seller – all it really means is that they are not subject to sale of goods legislation so that a purchaser in a private sale does not have specific protections. After that you have to fall back onto the common law of contract and once again I think that the liabilities are reasonably strict and I still think that even in a private sale if you bought something with defects which was represented to you as being without defects then you would probably have a good case. In this case, the dog has been accompanied by a health certificate and I think that is as good as any kind of representation dog is without defects. I think we are coming to an altogether more interesting issue. Apparently the dental defect with this puppy is observable and could have been detected by any reasonably careful examination carried out by a reasonable professional. But apparently also there is the possibility that there may be a more complicated problem which could be addressed by work costing up to £2000. What I'd like to know is whether this more complicated problem is as a result of the failure to spot the initial problem. Even if the initial problem had been spotted, with this still be a possibility that this more complicated work would be necessary? I suppose what I'm getting to his that at what point does one decide that a defect is an unacceptable defect or simply a risk that comes with purchasing all animals and therefore could still be considered as "satisfactory" because it would meet the reasonable expectations of any reasonable pet owner. To put it bluntly: are we saying here that if you buy an animal is less than genetically perfect, that you are purchasing defective goods and you are entitled to a refund? Does this mean that all animal traders are obliged to ensure that all the animals they sell are genetically perfect? This is dangerous territory: eugenics.  
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    • I think I still remain to be convinced that a court would not find the seller's offer to take the puppy back and give the OP a full refund both reasonable and acceptable.   Ignoring that this is the sale of a puppy, isn't this more akin to the private sale of a second-hand car?   I don't really know what the phrase:  "I recently bought a puppy from a home breeder. They have never breed dogs before and aren't a licensed business" means.  Is this a business to consumer sale, or is it simply the opportunistic private sale of puppies from a domestic litter?  I think the OP needs to establish this because it's not clear to me - yet.   AIUI, if I as a private individual privately sold, say,  a car with umpteen non-apparent faults or defects with it, but I was honestly unaware of them and could not be expected to be aware of them, then I'm not liable for any breach of contract when those faults and defects manifest themselves to the buyer a week later.  Isn't that what worried private sellers of cars are told here when aggrieved purchasers threaten to sue them?  It's not immediately obvious to me why this is necessarily any different - unless this is clearly a business to consumer sale.   The OP also says:  "Our puppy was sold as having passed a full health check from Vets4Pets", and so far as I can see this isn't disputed.  Unless that health check revealed the dental problem the OP is now complaining about, but the OP never was shown it (seems unlikely that the seller would mention it but not make the results available), then I think the seller may well be entitled to rely on it.  What more could they do to ascertain the health of the puppy?   I think this is not necessarily a clear-cut claim, and from the way the OP describes the breeder I think the question whether this is a consumer sale or a private sale may not have a black or white answer.     1.  The OP mentions following advice to buy puppies bred from a "home pet" (or similar such wording).  Not clear if this was the case here, but if it was, doesn't this suggest a private rather than consumer or trade sale?   2.  The OP also suggests that the health of the puppy was misrepresented, but is this necessarily correct?  They say the puppy was advertised as having had a "full health check", but that's not the same as saying the puppy was actually healthy.  And if it was a private sale, is the seller required to declare health problems they are aware of if they aren't specifically asked?
    • Ok,    I thought it may of helped as their DN stated 2 installments in arrears when it was issued on 10/2/17, but it would infact only have been 1 installment overdue 17/01/17.   I will keep to what I already know and stop over thinking further issues. 😁    
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koolkat66

@fabriclandcouk - How to claim a refund on an cancelled online purchase

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More than 2 weeks ago I've order some fabric online.

2 minutes after placing the order I cancelled (via email) as I realized I made a mistake.

 

For two weeks I repeatedly tried to contact the seller to cancel the order.

I never had a reply, either via email or phone.

 

Two weeks later I had a notification of process and dispatch, and again I emailed back.

No reply.

 

Today I refuse to accept the order and asked the delivery driver to take it back.

I paid with Paypal,

 

not sure how to go about it as on the Resolution Centre there isn't an appropriate option for my case.

I emailed customer service but had no reply so far.

 

The company has terrible reviews on Trustpilot.

I did not check as I have used them before and had no issues.

 

Am I in my right to ask for a refund and what is the correct procedure to claim?

 

Thank you for any help

Cris

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did you buy this through ebay or simply they use the PP portal?

 

eitherway

do a chargeback to your bank on your debit card.

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi dx100uk

 

I paid with Paypal balance. It wasn't Ebay, it was an online transaction with a retail shop.

 

The options I have on Paypal are

'item not as described', which is clearly not applicable,

and 'item not received'.

 

Could I use 'itmen not received' as in fact I did not receive it as I refused it, as it was should not have been sent in the first place?

 

I could not take it and send it back, I cannot go out of the house at the moment and therefore I though it best to leave it with the courier.

Cris

 

 

I have just now received a notice of delivery, and it may be the courier attempting another delivery. I have no way of knowing as there is no sender .

 

Should I receive the item (assuming is from them) and then trying to return, even if the seller is not responding?

 

Thank you

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And what company is it that you've been dealing with?


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Hi, the delivery from yesterday was APC, today is DHL.

Do you mean the company I bought from? It is a large online fabric shop

 

Cris

 

The delivery was from another company so the inital post apply.

 

 

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But which was the "large online fabric shop" – or are you trying to protect them?


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Hi, no, not at all, they are called Fabricland.

 

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Thanks.

In principle, because this was an online purchase, you have the right to a 14 day cooling off period. This is under the latest distance selling rules. However, there are exceptions and one of the exceptions is in relation to items which are custom-made/made-to-measure.

I'm troubled by the fact that you have ordered fabric – and of course I can imagine that fabric will always have to be cut from a roll – but that could mean that it has been made or modified specially for you in which case it would not benefit from the distance selling cooling off period.

Of course it is not very good that they haven't responded to you at all – but looking at the terms and conditions, I see that they refer specifically to the cutting fabric and that it is not returnable. https://www.fabricland.co.uk/information/orders-and-returns/

that would be correct.

On the other hand, not all of their terms and conditions are correct. For instance:

Quote

7. I have kept my goods for a long time period, and I have found a fault. Can I return it?

The consumer contract regulations are there for the customers protection. We do advise that customers check through their fabrics/trimmings before they are used, even if the customer is not planning to use them for a while. Once fabrics and trimmings have been cut by the customer, we can not offer an exchange or refund, even if the items are faulty. We also advise customers to check their goods as soon as possible, just in case the faulty item is no longer in stock and we can not replace it for the customer, as they waited too long. If the order was placed months before the customer contacts us about faulty fabric, we do not have to offer a refund.

 

This is completely wrong. First of all the rules relating to faulty items are governed by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 – and secondly, even if faults become apparent after they have been cut by the customer, then they are still returnable and in fact you would have six years from the time that the fault has been discovered to act upon that if Fabricland cause you any trouble.
So clause 7 of their terms and conditions are unenforceable. I have looked through the rest of their terms conditions – but when I start to see companies trying to hoodwink their customers with unenforceable terms, I start getting worried about the company.

 

And I see what you mean about bad reviews on trust pilot

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.fabricland.co.uk

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Hi.

I know about the cutting of the fabric, and fabric shop would not accept fabric after cutting.

It also says on their website that customers can cancel an order with 30 minutes of placing it. I cancelled 2 minutes after placing it so it should not have been processed at all.

Doesn't that give me any right?

They also processed the order two weeks later, so they had plenty of time (and emails) to stop before cutting.

 

Thank you

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Yes, if they have a 30 minute rule and you cancelled within two minutes then absolutely, there is no contract.

In fact they specifically say that you make an offer to them – which is quite normal – and the offer is not accepted until it is processed – at least 30 minutes – and so within the 30 minutes you revoke the offer and you communicated that revocation to them.

What was the value of the order?

A shame you paid by PayPal. It would have been easier if you had used a card because then you could challenge the payment with your bank

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Posted (edited)

Value of the fabric about £25. Not much, but something, for me. It says about the 30 minutes and there is a phone number which only had a recorded message and no way to leave a message therefore I emailed them.

https://www.fabricland.co.uk/information/orders-and-returns/

Is my first port of call Paypal anyway? I do not have the item anyway, as it is back with the delivery company, therefore it has not been delivered.

Edited by koolkat66

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Yes, what a load of hassle. I hope you have added your review to the others on trust pilot.

You may as well try PayPal first and tell them about the issue. I'm sure that it will be best doing it on the phone. I have found that with PayPal, if you manage to speak to somebody and explain the situation very gently, they are very sympathetic. They will give an opportunity to the company to respond – and certainly if there is no response from the company then you will get your money back.

Other than that, the only thing to do is to threaten and then to bring a legal action. This will cost you £25 but on the basis of what you say, your chances of success are much better than 95%. You then have to enforce the judgement against their office in Ringwood. That would cost you £66 – but you would get these fees back. I don't expect there would be a big problem enforcing the judgement and it may well be that once they get the court papers, they will wake up and simply pay you.

Have you were with PayPal and then let us know what happens and we can tell you about the next step if there is no joy there

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BankFodder, first of all thank you so much for taking the time to research and explain.

It was very helpful.

It seems a lot of hassle, and may even end up paying more.

However, I am mighty annoyed at their complete lack of response.

 

I have already tried to call Paypal a number of times but their UK phone seems to be disconnected.

The only option I have is to go through the Resolution Centre and choose  option 'item non delivered'.

Would going through this process first  compromise a future legal action?

If that doesn't work I will ge back here and start the legal prceedings.

Cris

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No it won't compromise any future legal actions

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Hello.

I have submitted a Paypal claim under 'transaction not authorized'.

I was not sure which option to use and I thought that, as I had cancelled the order within the Terms and Condtion of the company, the subsequent transaction would not be authorized.

 

Paypal has refused and closed the case.

I no longer have the option to try and claim under 'item not received'.

now I have no money and no fabric for an order that I cancelled, and still no contact from the company whatsoever.

 

What are my options and next step now?

 

Thank you for any advice.

Cristina

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