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    • dx100uk   You are absolutely correct. That's exactly what the wording is! And if that's the case then - happy days for me! However, I thought that:   1. This wording meant the conveyancing solicitor had to tell the council that the house was about to be sold so they were aware!   But you are saying that the council only needs to be informed AFTER the house has been sold? Can I tell the council that? [I think I've seen something on the internet that says I can, rather than the CS] Or do I need the conveyancing solicitor to contact the council?   2. That this wording wasn't a restriction K [as I'd looked at Schedule 4 of the Standard Forms of Restriction] and tried to match my wording to those listed - and thought restriction K was the closest.     3. That this was a non-standard restriction [and that's what the Land Registry told me too and that the restriction was not a Restriction K!!! [see extract below]   Please remember that when applying for a restriction not in standard form:   it must always contain the words ‘is to be completed by  registration’ rather than ‘is to be registered’. This will serve to make the effect of the restriction clear. The term ‘registered’, where used in any of the standard form restrictions, means the completion of a registrable disposition by complying with the relevant registration requirements prescribed in Schedule 2 to the Land Registration Act 2002 (rule 91(3) of the Land Registration Rules 2003), but this statutory definition only applies to standard form restrictions. Please note that we will not accept restrictions not in standard form for registration that contain the words ‘is to be registered’   So I'm confused now. IF it is a restriction K - then the conveyancing solicitor doesn't have to do anything and I can let the council know.   It seems it is dependent on the wording 'completed by registration' and 'is to be registered'???   Below is copied from Martin's MSE.   This relies again on the 'is to be registered' whereas my wording is ' completed by registration' which you say is restriction K and LR says is not.   I need to go to sleep now!   Thanks dx.   Extract from MSE below.   If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction. The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor. However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to deceive you believing you are stuck with a CO. However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them Quote: Restriction The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :- No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of /I]an interim[I/I]a final[I charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).        
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    • you ring you bank    
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Dizzy blonde

OBS PCN CCJ/Judgement - St Johns Retail Park Wolverhampton. - wasn't at home due to lockdown - Can i set aside?

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HI all.  Is there any leeway in the one month rule due to lockdown? 

 

After several weeks away looking after my mother and unable to travel the 3 hours home due to lockdown,

 I recently arrived home to find both the Claim Forms and the Judgement For Claimant (in default) CCJ, from Northampton County Court, for a 4 year old PCN Parking charge in Wolverhampton (Observices Parking Ltd). DCB legal Ltd are acting as their agent.  

 

I didn't pay the charge because my partner at the time said it was a scam and kept binning the letters. 

Probably stupid I know, and I moved house so many times since I haven't heard from them since.  

 

On the CCJ it says if I pay within one month,

I can ask the court to cancel the entry,

will there be any leniency on this time period due to lockdown,

as it is only 6 days over the one month period? 

 

In other words, if I pay now,

do you think the judge will be understanding about the lockdown and still allow the CCJ to be removed,

or am I stuck with it? 

 

I tired to call DCB legal within the 30 days however they are not working due to lockdown.

Also, it says you can "ask the judge to have it removed" but does not tell you how to ask, or where to send it.  

 

I really do not agree with the charge, but will pay if it means the CCJ will be removed.

Having it satisfied will not help my situation with finding a new house to rent, so I may as well not pay it.

I would be grateful for any advice you can give me.

Thanks

 

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The parking guys should be along to advise later, but could you start by telling us the information requested on the forum claim sticky and tell us what's on the claim form please? Don't give us any of your personal details.

 

 

Best, HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I expect that there will be no problem getting a set-aside – but of course it will cost you to apply for one. In addition to filling out the details which have been asked for above, tell us which is the parking company that you are dealing with – send them an SAR immediately and also one to DCB legal and one to the DVLA to find out when they last checked your address against your registration number. Send the SARs today.

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Big question is are you up to fighting this rather than paying up?

If you ask for a set aside of the judgement but admit the money is owed it wil cost you the same amount as a set aside and having the opportunity to defend the claim.

 

There have been developments recently that would reduce the amount you would be liable to pay anyway.

 

As the claim form was sent to your current address then the company are following civil procedure regulations to trace you but the original paperwork will have been sent to your regisred address at the time of the incident.

 

Any details you can give us on this would be useful,

it should have the full details in the letter before action sent to you at least a fortnight before the claim was issued and also on the claim form itself.

 

If that info is poor then you may well get a walkover for procedural impropriety and that means any monies you paid for the set aside will be refunded.

 

applying for a set aside will wipe the CCJ from the record once it is accepted into court

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thread title updated

 

it is not a FINE!!

 

it's a speculative invoice for breaking some imaginary contract you entered into by entering the private land with which they MIGHT have a signed and paid for contract with the land owners to manage parking....that I very much doubt.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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For clarity the claimform and Judgment were sent to your correct address as per DVLA, but you were at another address due to caring commitment and lockdown?

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Here are the CCJ basics:

 

Northampton County Court Business Centre.

 

Name of Claiment Observices Parking Ltd Elstree

 

Name of legal Representative DCB Legal Ltd Runcorn Way

 

Date CCJ issued: 22nd April 2020.

 

Amount of Judgement £316.95

 

CLAIM FORM

Court Address Country court Business Center. Northampton

 

Issue Date 31st March 2020

 

Name of Claimant Observices Parking Ltd, Elstree

 

Name of legal Representative DCB Legal Ltd, Runcorn

 

Amount Claimed  £219.11

 

Court Fee. £25.00

Legal Representative's Costs £50.00

Total amount £294.11 

 

Particulars of Claim:

1.The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle ( ) at St Johns Retail Park

 

2. The PCN details are 20/08/2015,

 

3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C.

The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on C's signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s) .

 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. 

 

5.Despite requests, the PCN(s) is outstanding.

 

6.The Contract entitles C to damages.

 

7.AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages.

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum,  pursuant to s.69 of the county Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.04 until judgment or sooner payment.

3. Costs and court fees

 

Hi bankfodder. Thanks for your help.

I have just had to look up what an SAR is lol.

I followed the link thanks and your suggestion is to post the SAR's, but I am aware DCB Legal are not open, so they will not receive it, should I Email the SAR as well? 

 

It has taken me an hour to type everything here, so I will have to do those three SAR's tonight and post them recorded first thing in the morning. 

 

Hi ericsbrother. Thanks for the advice. 

Actually the most important thing is that I lose the CCJ, because I need to move house and I will not be able to rent anywhere with one even if satisfied.

 

I spoke with Experian yesterday and they said my credit rating is already low because I've never had credit and I only got a credit card last year, go figure.

 

If I stand a chance at winning, I would be prepared to take them on, because I disagree with what they are doing, especially with so many thousands of complaints against them. 

 

At the time I seem to remember there was literally only a handful of tiny A5 size warning signs in that retail outlet carpark, run by Observices.

 

Also I am sure we visited the carpark twice that day, but it's so long ago now with too much stress in between.

If I take them on and lose, will I still be given the opportunity to pay in 30 days to have the CCJ removed, because a satisfied CCJ will still ruin my credit score.

 

Sadly I do not have any letters from them apart from the Claim Form and the Judgement for Claimant.

bankfodder has told me to ask for a SAR, assuming they cooperate, will they have to send me copies of all the letters I am supposed to have recieved?

 

Hi dx100uk. Thanks, but not sure what that means?  

 

Hi Brass Necked. Yes, I was caring for my mother, almost 3 hours away and could not drive back due to the lockdown.

 

Hi honeybee13, the link is asking about the claim form, but I already have the CCJ. Is all that other information now needed?

 I am not tech savvy but I have tried to include it all below.

 

Please let me know if anything is missing

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What DX is saying is it isn't a Fine, its Civil not Criminal, only magistrates can Fine you,

it was a ccj for failing to pay an invoice, raised because they reckon by parking you have entered into a Contract with them,

you didn't pay so they sued you in County Court and as you hadn't had the claimform to defend they have obtained a Judgment in Default that gave you a month to pay the sum demanded., or it would be registered and trash your Credit Files for 6 years. 

 

As far as the court is concerned 6 days late = tough its there for 6 years.

Need to look at a defence to back the Set Aside its only way to get rid. 

The Team will help all they can but you will have some legwork to do as well. 

CAG is Self Help as well.

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Hi brassnecked.

Thanks for your comments,

yes, if it's not too late to go for a set aside then I will do my bit also.  

 

I guess I was hoping there may be an increased grace period over and above the 30 days, seeing as all the companies I was supposed to correspond with are all closed due to lock down.

 

I just noticed they are also charging me interest on the claim,

I guess they can extort even more money from people by not pursuing them for a few years and adding interest to the debt.

 

Thanks again,

I will do my best to read through some of the information on CAG tonight,

 

I looked yesterday but there is so much technical info on here I couldn't work out what to read.

 

. Are you aware if there has been any national attempts to challenge Observices parking or any other car park? 

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I'm sure others will post on your thread soon,

if you were the keeper no need to name the driver in any set aside,

 

also if claim was as Keeper/Driver, can't be both "D is liable as the driver or keeper" that part of POC is naughty 

 

your partner binned all the other correspondence,

might be time for a SAR to OBS 

 

Also if Keeper anything over and above the Original Parking Charge under the recent Judgment at Lewes CC can be challenged.

 

Read up on a few threads and you will get the idea while you wait for others to contribute.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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As you say that getting rid of the CCJ is your priority, then set aside is the way to go.  There is a simple single sheet of A4 to fill in and, unfortunately, £255 to pay.

 

Set asides are almost always given.  There is a 15/20-minute hearing, which will probably be done on the phone given the emergency.  The judge will want you to briefly explain

   - (a) why you didn't defend at the time, and you have probably the best reason possible just now, and

   - (b) that you have a chance of defending the action in court.  There would be little point granting a set aside if you were bound to lose.  This is more problematic as unfortunately the correspondence has been binned so we don't know if the PPC ballsed up their paperwork (they nearly always do).  That's where the SARs come in.  In any case, there are already three reasons.  OBS have lazily mentioned driver or keeper and they are NOT the same thing.  They have also made up over £100 of fictitious charges.  Their signage was pants.  

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Yes might be worth looking at how the claim was made up and   look at why if you had defended they would lose, Get that SAR off to the parking cowboy,  Don't think that shower would agree to a set aside by consent, but St Aside is only way to get rid of CCJ, and if it was a RobOclaim on a dodgy POC  amndyou had a more than evens chance of defending might get the Sta Aside cost back as well.  hopefully ericsbrother and others will stop by soon with their thoughts.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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don't think they had an upto date signed and paid for contract for 2015 the car park with the land owners.

look at the other threads here for the same place and parking prankster site

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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The original Invoice was August 2015,, did you live at same address then?

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Many thanks FTMDave, dx100uk and brassnecked for your help.

 

I have filled out the SAR's and will send them guaranteed next day delivery on Monday, to  OBS, DCB Legal and DVLA. 

* Should I change the wording or keep it the same for all the SARs, maybe make it less strong for the DVLA?

 

*Should I state in the SAR to OBS that I have also requested SARs from DVLA and DCB Legal?

 

*As OBS and DCB Legals offices are closed/not full time, due to lockdown, could this delay my receiving the SAR?  

Is there anything I can do to encourage OBS to send me the SAR asap as the sticky post on SAR's suggests that OBS could take up to three months to supply me with the SAR, which could allow them time to send people round to the house etc.

 

Is there any way I can word the document in a more urgent manner, or give them strict times to comply with? 

If bailiffs were sent and then afterwards my case goes to court and I win, would I be able to ask the judge for costs including my own time, travel and the cost of collecting (and or replacing) anything that was taken/sold on by bailiffs?

 

*Two of the site team have mentioned a 'Consent' to Set Aside, would it be worth pursuing this first, due to the time it may take to get hold of the SARs? 

 

@ brassnecked. Yes I  have moved address twice since the alleged PCN incident.

 

Thanks once again for all your help.

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 And you have always kept your details up to date with DVLA?  important is their claim was pants and they therefore wrongly obtained your details from DVLA.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Well, actually, I only told DVLA where I lived 2 weeks ago in order to renew my license, so I'm not sure how OBS found out where I lived.

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stop worrying about bailiffs.

they would need to return to court to invoke court bailiffs use..

DCBL the TV crownies can't get involved as the 'debt' is less than £600.

 

it's all very nice sending SAR's off to uncle tom and all but those aren't really going to help you any.

 

the only thing I can see that is going to help you is sight of the signed contract with the landowner and you won't get that via an sar as it doesn't involve you in it.

 

imho I don't think you stand much of a chance.

I cant see the signs nor the paperwork being faulty after this:

 

 

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi dx100uk, thanks for your thoughts.

Are saying that Obs cannot send anyone at all around to attempt to collect the debt or seize any goods, and if they did it would be illegal? 

 

I am hoping the judge will Set Aside my CCJ based on the fact that I was away from home due to the lock down so was unable to respond to Claim or the CCJ .

 

Some have suggested SAR's may help to find loopholes in the PCN, to encourage the judge to give me a Set Aside, what are your thoughts on this. 

 

Do I stand a chance at getting the CCJ removed, or will I be wasting my time with the SAR's and spending £250 for nothing? 

Should I be going for a Consent?

I'm not totally sure what this is yet.

Cheers

 

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Posted (edited)

If you look through the list of threads in this part of the forum, you'll see "Backdoor CCJ" appears frequently.  It's always someone in your position who moved and never got the court papers.  I can't remember even one of those cases for a single ticket like yours where bailiffs got involved.  Not one.  The money involved is too small, as dx says, £600 is the magic figure.  So don't worry.  If you want to be absolutely sure, keep your doors locked and any vehicle parked away from your home - but really there is no need to go to these lengths. 

 

A set aside should be simple to obtain (post 11).  If time is of the essence you could start the process now, but if you wait for the result of the SARs you could end up with more ammo. 

 

A set aside by consent would be where OBS consent to your application, but that would be a very dangerous road to go down.  We had a case recently where someone paid the PPC the amount of the CCJ - and didn't get the set aside.  You're dealing with conmen after all.      

Edited by FTMDave
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11 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

Well, actually, I only told DVLA where I lived 2 weeks ago in order to renew my license, so I'm not sure how OBS found out where I lived.

Unfortunately renewing your licence is not sufficient. You need to update the details on your V5c, the sooner the better, as it is a legal requirement to have a current address for the registered keeper at all times. This cannot be done on-line, you need to fill in the relevant boxes on your existing V5c and post it to DVLA. Take a scan/copy of the V5c as a backup to their losing your application to change.


My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

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On 29/05/2020 at 14:29, Dizzy blonde said:

After several weeks away looking after my mother and unable to travel the 3 hours home due to lockdown,

 I recently arrived home to find both the Claim Forms and the Judgement For Claimant

 

the relevant paperwork was not sent to any wrong address, you simply didn't see it as were not resident due to caring for you sick mother during Covid-19 Lockdown

 

3 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

Are saying that Obs cannot send anyone at all around to attempt to collect the debt or seize any goods, and if they did it would be illegal? 

 

even if OBS did, they have zero legal powers, their only option is to return to court and ask the court to assign court bailiffs to enforce the debt, of that you would get notification from the court first. As for DCBL, they can't involve their HCEO wing as the judgement is less than the high court £600 limit.

 

3 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

I am hoping the judge will Set Aside my CCJ based on the fact that I was away from home due to the lock down so was unable to respond to Claim or the CCJ .

 

that is your only set aside reason I can see, but you also need a basic defence against the claim itself, to date I see no credible reason other than the claimant has failed to actually quoted what T&C you broke in their POC? overstay, didn't buy a ticket, outside lines etc etc.

 

3 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

Some have suggested SAR's may help to find loopholes in the PCN, to encourage the judge to give me a Set Aside, what are your thoughts on this.

 

you indicate earlier this might have been double dipping (2 visits) so an sar to OBS might help once you have the PCN and or the Notice to Keeper/driver.

 

3 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

Should I be going for a Consent?

 

can't see any harm in trying for a consent order to DCBL FOC to you on the basis their POC fails to state what you did wrong. they might agree.

if not it's gonna cost you £255 for the N244 set aside, but i'd get this in Monday.

 

reason for set aside - could not return home due to caring for your sick mother during Covid-19 Lockdown.

defence - the claimant has failed to adequately particularise their claim by not stating what part of their parking contract T&C's I have allegedly broken.

 

eitherway, by contacting DCBL with the above (free option - worth a try)

or Sending the court an N244 to northants bulk (£255)

 

for either you do not need to wait.

 

dx

 

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thanks FTMDave.

I will post the SAR to OBS tomorrow.

 

I don't know if its relevant,  the vehicle in this PCN case was hit by an artic lorry, written off by the insurance and scrapped, while I lived at the same address the PCN was issued to.  

I have moved house twice since then and there are no vehicles registered at my current address, the only way DVLC know I am here is because I had to renew my licence recently.

Maybe OBS used the electoral register to find where I live.

 

 

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no your credit file.

 

dx

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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dx100uk

Many thanks for responding to all those paragraphs, I feel a bit easier now. 

I will post the SAR to OBS tomorrow. I am prepared to pay for the Set Aside if it will help this be resolved, from what I understand if I win I get the costs back anyway.

 

I will read more about Consent to Set Aside today. I found it confusing, does the Consent have to be done by a solicitor to be accepted by the court?

 

On advice from the CAB, I spoke to Northampton CCBC earlier in the week (got through to some guy just insisting I pay now, must be on commission or something), both phone calls were a complete waste of time in every way compared to the assistance I have already received here, I will definitely be donating when this matter is resolved. Northampton CCBC has sent me the N244 and it arrived yesterday.

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