OBS PCN CCJ/Judgement - set aside now rehearing

[Dizzy blonde]

Yes totally agree, I posted the full letter from DCBL a second ago. That deal was offered before I asked for the SAR's, I rejected it.

 

 

Brassnecked you said DCBL are being toothless bullies but as the letter says, 'This case is not subject to high court or bailiff action', I was assuming they wouldn't be allowed to visit the property anyway, and even if they did, they aren't entitled to enter or to take anything away,,, isn't that the case?

[dx100uk]

forget the letter

forget dcbl DCA letter totally

 

 

 

 

[Dizzy blonde]

Another thing, they say they have photographic evidence of the entry and exit times, but have not included it in the SAR. If they have photos shouldn't they provide them in the SAR?

And if they don't have them now, how can they prove anything? 

 

Should I ask OBS to produce the photos?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Dizzy blonde
further info

[ericsbrother]

we keep telling you that ONLY OPS have the stuff you are after, these muppets have nothing to do with anything. Go after the engine driver, not the oily rag

[brassnecked]

Ignore DCBL, they are not part of any solution, in fact dealing with them will be harmful to your case.

[Dizzy blonde]

Hi Dx

I understand and that is why I have been waiting for the SAR from OBS, in order to give me a strong enough reason for the Set Aside. 

I posted images of the SAR yesterday, I will try to upload the PDF version now.

 

My concern with DCBL is not with them, it is that the judgement amount has just increased by £86 after a single letter and three more will make it £640, I was wondering if there was anything legal I could say within the fourteen days they gave me to respond, in order to prevent more daft priced letters following.

With help from you guys I hope to win the case, but as yet I don't even know if I stand a chance, that's why I've been waiting for the SAR, as a loss could cost me well over a grand and all for nothing if the CCJ is still there.

[brassnecked]

They cannot add anything to the Judgment as they are not bailiffs, but wonder if they are trying to artificially inflate so they can try to get a High Court enforcement running, they are dodgy, see what others think, but for Set Aside you just need something to sghow you have a chance of defending the original claim, which due to circumstances you never received.

[FTMDave]

About 95% of the letters we see on the forums that demand money and threaten dire consequences have no basis in law but unfortunately can scare those who don't know the law into coughing up money they don't owe.

 

The solution is to learn the law, bit by bit, and empower yourself into understanding what demands are valid and which aren't. 

 

Anyone can write letters to anyone demanding money.  I could demand you pay me £500 for the advice here because, although CAG is free, my football team's ground is bigger than Ericsbrother's football team's ground so that doesn't apply to me.  Of course my demand would be absurd and would be laughed out of court, but no more absurd than a lot of the empty threats from paper tigers that we see here.

 

The only person who can decide that a debt exists and enforce payment is a judge.  If at this point you were to give up (not suggesting that of course!) you would owe £317, what the judge decided.  Not a penny more or less.  Certainly not a grand.

 

DCBL are just trying it on.  It's not even their debt!  They have no powers to do anything whatsoever.

[FTMDave]

You have a superb chance of getting a set aside.  They are hardly ever refused.  If you look at some of the other "Backdoor CCJ" threads here, you'll see everyone who applied for a set aside, got it.

 

That's what you have to go for now.  Post up a draft of what you propose to write on the application form to the court.  That will have to include

   1.  the reason you didn't originally defend the claim, and

   2.  a few bullet points explaining how you would defend the claim now.

[dx100uk]

22 hours ago, dx100uk said:

its their std dca letter...ignore.

its here in several threads already.

 

no-one can add anything to a court judgement, only bailiffs

and as DCBL are not court court bailffs but HCEO's and the CCJ debt is not above £600 , they can't ever be involved as bailiffs here anyway

 

get the set aside running!!

 

dx

 

over 22hrs ago you were told this.^^^

why are you dwelling on it.

 

there is no post judgemental interest nor any other collection fees than can be added UNLESS court bailiffs get involved

and obs would have to return to court to action that and you'd be told by the court too that they are...

 

stop falling for the scams these companies try and pull.

they also pretend to be joe public and post horror stories on other sites too like facebook..

 

not on CAG they won't..

 

 

[Dizzy blonde]

Eric. DX. FTM. Brass.

Many Thanks all, for explaining that again in more detail, it occasionally appeared vague whether the debt could be added to by DCBL and when I spoke to the ICO office on Monday, the woman there gave me a lot of horror stories.

Now I feel more confident.

 

I want to upload my SAR PDF's to get your opinions, for anything I can put in the N244, but I can't find the link that says how to delete personal information on the PDF.

 

[Dizzy blonde]

I moved house so will not have received most of the letters. 

 

Just looking at the dates it looks like they may have confused the issue date and the date of the offence etc in the last three letters they sent, but it may just be wording.

 

[FTMDave]

I've had to delete all the pages you posted.  CAG's policy is for uploads to be in PDF only (as explained in the upload guide) so only registered Caggers can see them - best to keep the OPC creeps guessing.

 

I have however converted to PDF (again, as explained in the upload guide).  I hope they're in the right order but, hey, that's the best I can do.

OPC_SAR_response.pdf

Edited July 3, 2020 by FTMDave

[Dizzy blonde]

Really Appreciate it FTM thanks. 

[Dizzy blonde]

FTMDave has kindly uploaded my SAR in PDF format, here it is.

OPC_SAR_response_edited_by_FTMDave.pdf

[Dizzy blonde]

Hi Everyone.

Be great if somone could glance over the SAR and give me some feedback for the N244. If there's anything in there that would be helpful towards getting a set aside I'll add it to the N244, I'd like to post it as soon as I can. Cheers

[dx100uk]

On 31/05/2020 at 00:32, dx100uk said:

stop worrying about bailiffs.

they would need to return to court to invoke court bailiffs use..

DCBL the TV crownies can't get involved as the 'debt' is less than £600.

 

it's all very nice sending SAR's off to uncle tom and all but those aren't really going to help you any.

 

the only thing I can see that is going to help you is sight of the signed contract with the landowner and you won't get that via an sar as it doesn't involve you in it.

 

imho I don't think you stand much of a chance.

I cant see the signs nor the paperwork being faulty after this:

 

 

 

sorry to be the bummer

but i repeat what i said more than 1 month ago.

 

unless anyone thinks diff

 

[FTMDave]

I've had a look at the SAR and indeed reread your thread from the start.  I don't think the SAR shows they've done anything particularly wrong - but hey, it was free and gave them some work to do!

 

Your reason for not receiving the court papers is easy.

 

Your reason(s) for intending to defend is that no contract was formed due to insufficient signage and OBS have abused the court procedure by adding additional costs to try to circumvent the small claims limits.

 

I think these are the reasons we can be reasonably sure of.

 

Please post up a draft of what your propose to send.  Then let EB have a look tomorrow as he has a lot of experience with set asides.

 

 

[Dizzy blonde]

Thanks FTM.

 

This may seem very obvious to everyone else, but I'm not overflowing with money and was under the impression that I needed to have a good chance of defence or the judge may throw it out.

 

Spending £250 to set aside if I don't stand a chance of winning the case is not appealing, as aren't the additional costs if I lose. Still I appreciate everyones help.

 

Is there an example of a successful N244 on here I can look at?

Cheers

 

One more thing, don't OBS have to produce photographic evidence of the vehicle/offence at the said times?

 

Surely without photo's how can they prove it?

[FTMDave]

You're right about the photos but that's not a matter for now.  Unfortunately they didn't have to prove it as they won by default.

 

When you win the set aside, if OBS are stupid enough to want a rematch then at that point you can deal with the matter of the photos not existing or existing but not being in the SAR.

 

The aim now is to get a set aside and get rid of the CCJ.  I take your point about £255 not being cheap, that's why I suggested waiting for EB's opinion tomorrow as he has a lot of experience with set asides, with recent changes to the relevant court procedure, and being in court himself for set asides. 

[dx100uk]

I think the set aside is a given thing you'll get that just with the basic stuff above. Also make sure you sue for return of you fee.

 

But what makes me wonder i s iF the claimant does latterly continue the case to a new hearing (as the set aside resets things to as if you'd just received the claimform) if they did prove contract existed and signs were ok it could cost you bad.

[Dizzy blonde]

Thanks for the comments FTM and Dx, I hope to pay the fee over the phone, then send the N244 tomorrow, Does it make any difference whether I email  the court or post it in triplicate? Email is obviously easier.

 

Is there an example N244 on here, that will give me an idea of what to say, in legalese?

 

Dx you said I should sue for return of the fee, do I do that in the N244, or after it is set aside?

 

Lastly, the N244 says you can continue on an extra sheet, are the courts sympathetic to genuine causes of distress, as I'm actually in dire straits, the CCJ is preventing me from opening a business account to start my company and no estate agents will rent me house, so out of work and soon to be evicted and a burden on the state. A satisfied  CCJ will not help at all. Can I include such things? 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I've had a look at some of the other backdoor CCJ threads, but haven't found an example N244.

 

However, in a sense that's a good thing, write your own draft based on post 98.  It doesn't have to be in legalese,  just a quick summary of your position in normal English.

 

One of the Site Team could do it for you, but we're normally very reluctant to do so because it will be you (not us) in front of the judge (or given COVID, probably on the phone to the judge) so it's important that you understand and are confident with your arguments.

 

Wait for EB to comment on the draft tomorrow, on those other threads I see he goes on about a Supreme Court judgement re set asides and he's been in court himself in a similar situation several times. 

 

I don't know about suing for the £255, maybe dx or EB will know more. 

 

Whatever you do, there will be an element of risk due to mistakes (mistakes are no problem, been there done that, but learn for the next time).  It's not a good idea to throw away documentation when you're in a legal dispute with someone, and you should always tell them of a change of address.  Plus a case should have been built at the time against these charlatans, such as taking photos of their rubbish signs.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your personal circumstances are irrelevant to the court.  You've "defied" a court order - tough.  Of course we know you haven't really defied a court order as your N244 will show, and will be the start of the fightback.

[dx100uk]

22 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

One more thing, don't OBS have to produce photographic evidence of the vehicle/offence at the said times?

 

yes they will and the contract if they request a further hearing.

 

.......................

 

n244

.......

 

i do not believe the claimant had a valid and paid for contract covering the year of the offence with the land owner or their agents.

 

i do not believe the Claimant ANPR System had the relevant council planning permission to be used or erected on poles at the site.

 

i do not believe the Claimant signs at the site neither had the required council planning permission nor suitably conveyed the legal terms of any contract the driver at the time of parking could ever be able to agree to by reading them.

 

i claim the cost of my set aside fee from the claimant should i be successful.

 

 

[brassnecked]

That should nail the setaside, and see OBS off with other factors tha can be added if they try again.