Jump to content
  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
      • 49 replies
    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
        • Thanks
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
        • Thanks
        • Like

CEL PCN Claimform - White Cross Business Park***Claim Discontinued***


Recommended Posts

Makes no odds if they discontinue their claim...your CC proceeds on its own merts.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that you use a private/work parking space on land which belongs to them and that you have to drive across another car park area in order to access it.

I understand that there is no other access to your work parking space.

I understand that CEL then issued a PCN and an hour trying to enforce it against you in the courts.

I understand that you have defended – although I haven't seen a defence and also you've counterclaimed – possibly on the basis of harassment.

 

I understand that the claimants have now decided to withdraw the case and they have issued a notice of discontinuance.

You have been advised to drop the counterclaim – that you have decided not to.

I've looked at your counterclaim, and I think that it has no merit and you are simply making your life complicated and that you should go along with the discontinuance and then try to put it behind you.
I'm sure it's been all very stressful – but the advice given here as to the counterclaim is good advice. That's what you came here for and you would be very wrong not take it.

I haven't seen your defence – and I would be interested to see it. I suspect that you haven't based your defence on the right kind of argument which is that if I understand the relationship between the two car parks correctly, then there is an easement and you are entitled as a matter of law to cross the first car park in order to access the second in order to take up your parking space.

The work car park is what is called a "dominant estate" and the one that you cross is a "servient estate".

The law would not permit a piece of land to exist without some way of accessing it and so where there is only one way through then there is automatically an easement – or right of way over it in order to reach the dominant piece of land.

This would have been the basis of my defence and frankly I think it would be unassailable.

Maybe you'd like to post up a copy of the defence that you originally produced – redacted. I notice that it was removed at some point.

Also, I notice that you tend to take long breaks from attending to this thread. I think that's unhelpful



 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, burmafriday said:

c) we actually have formidable proof that their actions were not only reckless but unnecessary ...

the area of land where we parked was not in their jurisdiction to police.

eh?^^

 

as for the rest

the post above yours from EB already details your course of action

exhaust When you have whipped them in court a complaint to the ICO and the DVLA copied to your MP should be made. FIRST.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

 

Thank you for your valuable comments and getting back fast.

 

Firstly, I like to apologise for the long gap.

 

You are right Bankfodder, I should have informed CAG that things were delayed.

It started with CEL not submitting their DQ.

 

We informed the court of this only to find that the Court gave them extension.

We have no idea if they applied to the court as we were not informed neither by CEL or the court.  

Then from out of the blue, we learnt the court granted them one-month extension.

 

the last three months was just wasted till finally a hearing date was set for a day in October.

All docs. either side were to be submitted by 01 Oct. which CEL failed to do and then we received this Discontinuance Notice

 

I will get back to CAG with a copy of our defence as soon as I have redacted.

 

In the meantime, after they submitted their Notice of Discontinuance, on Tuesday, in the evening they sent a private email to us saying that as they discontinued the case, they suggested that we should like-wise “discontinue our counterclaim”. They gave us 7 days to agree and said they reserve the right to show their letter to the Judge.

 

Yesterday evening, they sent an email offering to reimburse our costs for counterclaim if we discontinued and again gave us 7 days to agree.

 

Again, I have to redact the documents to post on CAG and I will get that done and forward them.

 

Should I use PM to all in this discussion or simply post on CAG?

 

Thank you

Warm regards

BF

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

well done then

they threw the towel in and are paying your fee for the counterclaim if you drop it.

 

thats a really important win win as it's now obvious they know the game is up about these breaches of GDPR Regulation.

 

the choice is yours really, you could get a couple £100's out of 'em if you did continue, but you need to carefully weigh this up against the other issues you presently are dealing with....and what numerous siteteam members seem to be recommending before and after we knew you were CC'ing... and thats never do that and you case is not very strong.

 

we don't really need to see anything.

we know what they look like.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant getting them to discontinue.

 

Magnificent that they have offered to pay your counterclaim costs.

 

I agree with dx.  Grab their snivelling climbdown offer with both hands.  Your counterclaim is not strong and could easily backfire against you.

 

If you want to continue the fight later and give them even more of a kicking then you could go after them for breaching your data protection.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Andyorch changed the title to CEL PCN Claimform - White Cross Business Park***Claim Discontinued***

Hi,

 

dx and Dave - Thank you for your messages.

 

1.)  If you don't need to see the defence and CC then OK. 

 

2.)  As for the CC - i understand your comments. Its an issue for us and we need to discuss it between us. 

 

3.)  In the mean time, let me advise you that we do have a formidable case because we can prove that they acted absolutely recklessly and had no right to issue the PCN.

 

More specifically, we can prove and have proven in our CC that they should not have issued the PCN in the first place.  They were told by the landlords of the private land on which my wife parked to stop issuing PCN's on their Private land (Cease and Desist (CD) order) and yet rather than dropping the case altogether at that point in time (which was way before the case started) they chose to continue to the bitter end. 

 

4.)  We have also declared right from the outset, our fees and costs which are actual fees we charge to our clients.  We told them why they were valid and that we will claim these fees in full. We think that is the reason why they want us to Discontinue with out CC.

 

4.)  Of course, now they have seen our defence and CC - which included a copy of the CD they are dropping their claim and they want us to stop the counter claim. 

 

5.) If we discontinue our CC, then we will not be able to serve them a writ later on our claim.

 
We will discuss this and get back to CAG.

 

Thank you again  

Warm regards

BF

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All, 

 

Firtly, thank you to all for your help and suggestions so far. I really am very grateful.

 

We have had numerous, very in dept  discussions and my wife is very, very keen to progress with the counter claim. 

 

I want to establish why you say we have little chance and that our counter claim does not have much merit? We note your comments that we will only receive about £200  at best.

 

Firstly, we have declared the cost from the beginning and these are very real costs we submitted. My wife, whilst retired, (only retired because she has to look after her ill parents and myself) still commands these rates in her industry. We did not  pull these figures out of the air. Secondly, defending this irresponsible writ has been a serious amount of work. CEL had broken every CPR rule. They did not copy us and submit their appliations always late.

 

In the meantime, having submitted their application to discontine the case, they now contacted us to say that as they have discontinued, our counter claim is now finished and we cannot continue with it. Of course we have ignored this.

 

We have 28 days to apply for a Stay to their appliation for discontinuance and our counterclaim is surely still valid, irrespective of whether they discontinue their claim or not.

 

Have a great weekend.

Best/BF

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly, what you've achieved so far deserves a standing ovation!  Not only have they wet themselves re their own case they actually want to pay your counterclaim costs.  I've read loads of cases of PPCs being humiliated in court but never one like yours.  They have taken a totally-deserved right hiding.  Well done!

 

It's precisely because of the brilliant work you've done that virtually all the regulars here are concerned you could throw part of it away with the counterclaim.  You talk about your wife's industry but then logically someone who delivers pizzas would ask for a different hourly rate.  The court will probably have an amount it considers reasonable.  I've heard the figure of £19 (or £19.50, not sure, say £20 for easy maths!) being used in small claims for preparation costs.  £2000 / £20 = 100 hours preparation.  You can't really claim you've put 100 hours into preparing for the case.  

 

You want £500 for harassment.  The court sets a very high bar for harassment.

 

We're not saying just to give in.  Going on to really teach these crooks a lesson is exactly what they deserve (and your wife deserves too for everything she's had to put up with).  An alternative strategy would be to accept their £115 and draw a line under this case ...

 

... and then clobber them for a GDPR breach.  I've seen £250 as the base figure, but for all the reasons you've stated theirs is an extremely serious breach, so maybe go for £1000.

 

Have a good weekend you too - the football went well this afternoon for me so I'm in a good mood at this end!

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with FTM dave that you should drop the counter claim.

 

Even if you win with it, you could still have to pay CEL's Court costs.

Crazy but it's true.

 

A far better way would be to go for breaching your GDPR which could bring in around £500 with no risk of having to pat their costs.

 

Better still would be for you to play hardball with them now and go for the GDPR breach from them without having to pay for the Court fee.

 

At the same time go for your other costs for the time you took to defend yourself etc .etc.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Link to post
Share on other sites

urm.. not sure if you win you'd still be liable to pay their costs...

but.

 

as i said long ago..

 

drop the CC

raise a sep claim if you think it's holds water.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be better to drop CC get them to pay your CC cost then go after them as a new move under GDPR easy win there as by their own admission and actions have admitted they had no right to access and process your data.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Dave, Lookinforinfor, dx and brassnecked.

 

Thank you for your suggestions and advice.

OK I will advise my dear wife accordingly and try and convince her to follow it.

 

I will definitely need your help to claim for their breach of GDPR  as both my wife and I are unfamiliar with GDPR  and its beach. Neither of us know what GDPR these guys have breached and how we can claim. 

 

So I guess the first thing to do will be to try and negotiate for not only our court fees but also for what ever else we can claim from them (as LookingforInfo advised) 

 

But I can forsee that they would stipulate full and final settlement and include some clause so that we can not take any further action against them......

 

But, assuming that does not happen, once that aspect is settled,

we can then claim against GDPR. Is that the "proper" sequence?

 

thank you again

 

All the best/BF

 

Edited by burmafriday
Link to post
Share on other sites

GDPR is the regulations which mandate how they can access and process data it supercededs the provisions in Tthe data protection Act by making them stricter.  they breached GDPR when they asked DVLA for keeper data as they had no lawful reason to do so she wasn't parking on land under their control, merely using a right of access, their chucking in the towel so completely is evidence of that, the y want you to go away as they know they have messed up.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear All, 

 

Thank you so much for all your support.

Neither of us were aware of using GDPR till  you put us right.

We shall follow your advice and get back to you in a few days.

 

Warm regards

BF

Link to post
Share on other sites

:yo:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Be aware that making a separate claim under GDPR is not as straightforward as making a part 7 money claim.There are risks and costs associated subject to what track its placed in.

 

It is possible to add an additional claim to a Counter Claim ...which would keep the claim in the same track and part of the Part 20 counterclaim.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part20#20.7

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for your message. I was just about to post a message regarding the latest developments so your note is very timely

 

Regarding latest developments the following is the situation

 

Dear All,

 

1. We received a notice from CEL that because they have discontinued their claim, they consider the matter is now closed as we have not submitted our counter claim, However, my wife replied to the email that the Counter Claim was attached to the Defence Documents which was submiteed and copied to them.

 

In any event they knew that there is a Counter Claim because they asked us to drop it within 7 days and then they offered to pay our court fee only. !!

 

2. Firstly, there is an issue here. CEL submitted their notice of discontinuance 2 days after the deadline for their court fees to be paid. And also, as far as we are aware, they have not paid their court fees.

 

3. Surely their case should be struck out by the court for this failure to pay their fees on time - irrespective of their submission of the Notice of Discontinuance two days after the deadline date which they obviously made after the receipt of the Defence Documents.

 

4. As for their comment that we have not submitted our counter claim, this is definitely not the case as we made the Couter Claim and submitted this when we replied to their writ. So, as far as we are concerned, the counter claim is still very valid

 

5. As we are within our 28 days limitation, we have not advised the court whether we are accepting their notice of discontinuance or not. We acknowledged its receipt only. We have submited the Case Plan to the court today.

 

6. Although it was not stated that we have to copy CEL, we are copying them anyway

 

7. As advised earlier to CAG we will follow CAG’s advice but we will action this before the hearing date

 

8. However having had the latest advice from Andy, 

a. should we add the GDPR claim as an additional claim, and

b. should we add the County Council as an additional party to the counter claim as previously advised.  

 

thank you

Warm regards

BF

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

We have submited the Case Plan to the court today.

 

:confused: What exactly is a " case plan " 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

just be very careful, the court has confirmed their discontinuance?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The courts do not confirm Discontinuance BN...the claimant is responsible for serving Notice N279 on the defendant.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

oops was thinking of something else thanks Andy.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

burmafriday,

 

as said upthread, your case is unique, I've never seen the PPC give in and then offer to pay counterclaim costs!  For that reason I've tried to ask advice from Site Team members with a hell of a lot more experience than me, as your case is so out of the ordinary.

 

As said many times, many/most/all Caggers think you should drop the counterclaim.  Maybe humiliate CEL further and say you want to receive their cheque before you withdraw.

 

Regarding GDPR, you've mentioned that you know that they know that the PCN should never have been issued.  Can you give us a few more details please on this point?  It will be important to show that they deliberately obtained your data from the DVLA when they had no reason to do so.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...