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    • you need to ring northants bulk and ask for a copy of the judgement and the claimform by email pdf. it is quite usual for them to not have a copy of the claimform. so you need to record the call and ask them to read out the particulars of claim and the address it was sent too.     old wives tales , if you have a debt owing that shows on your credit file or you know exists from say the last 7yrs you should NEVER move without WRITTING to the debt owner with your new address. never run from debt which falls within the above .     all mortgage style SLC loans that were not deferred with erudio following the gov't sale in 2013 and that did not have a court claim raised within 6yrs are SB'd.   drydens simply did this because they wrote to your old address, got no response, and knew they'd get a default roboclaim CCJ where no human checks anything.   shot yourself in the foot.      
    • yep.   if all these are still owned/with the original creditors and you are not paying any powerless DCA's  then little point in any CCA requests at this stage unless any (non OD A/C's) are say pre 2000 opening.   our pro rata letters are the way to go you'll find those in the debt collection section of our library.   get any income payments on going or otherwise moved into a parachute A/c.   it is most probable that whatever you do most A/c's will be defaulted once this is done if not already. bearing in mine your wish to re mortgage or move in a future, it is most probable that the quicker you do default , the earlier a DN will be registered thus the earlier these will not show following their 6th birthday. this might involve you thinking about stopping all payments now ensuring this does happen, then resuming payment under a pro rata scheme self administered , once this happens.   just be aware that no DMP providers will ever question enforceability, should that be relevant.     
    • LL would have Absolutely no chance of getting the smart meter changed back.....
    • slow down ...read what i'm asking , stating and trying to clarify.. it all might seem useless or totally irrelevant but it's important information moving forward with the whole situation and useful in the SPC claim moving forward     there was not 2 loans - the litigated OD is not a loan but it appears from your comment here..     sorry but then you did get scammed on many fronts... they allowed you to settle the loan exploiting your confusion over thinking it was the litigated account. they didn't tell you either and they would also have been aware of your statement filed response form:   The respondent had a junior account with the Bank of Scotland since a young age.  The Bank of Scotland offered the Respondent a loan of around £2500. This Respondent serviced the loan until losing her source of income and ran into some financial difficulty resulting in defaulting in servicing the loan.   they settled for a discounted sum... why? we usually find this is because they hold no enforceable paperwork at all. or was full of charges , charges could have been the discount or it could have been due to 'a business decision' ...   but sure as eggs is eggs there is no way 1st credit would not have raised a court claim for both the OD and the loan unless there was a very good reason. they didn't that smells...badly.   OD 's are notoriously difficult to litigate upon if defended properly...but with a loan in the same claim, with enforceable paperwork, they would have almost been guaranteed to win.   it's also a shame you didn't come where before you did anything but we are where we are.   now the above might seem harsh..even petty but our posts are not only for you and your issue they are also for future readers that find us via search engines or read like threads here alerting debtors to frequent pitfalls and innocent wet myself actions many do that all these dca's will and have exploited time and time again over the last +40yrs .   i'll try and get around to properly redacting all your pdf's tonight and get them back up. but before i finish and get on with the above........the status of the claim as it stands now.   From what i can gather the claim now hinges upon proving her ex at the time settled by a discounted payment to HBOS well before the sale to Intrum and the SPC Claim.   In all honestly and with regard to your comments in your previous posts upon his character, i seriously doubt this ever happened. the disclosures from Intrum contain all the OD statements , should that have happened, it would be detailed in those.   there is little point in the claimant hiding that info as they would be in far more legal trouble should they have doctored them than insuring a mere +£1k claim win. Even 1st credit wouldn't pull such stunts.   Sorry but there is little point in requesting HBOS to attend any future hearing, nor hoping the SAR shows anything different to the statements the claimant has disclosed . That will cost you more money , and more money in terms of the claimant attending another hearing.   there is one exploitation i see. that being the mention of a default notice. the claim states:  The respondent fell into arrears under the Finance Agreement. A Default Notice was Issued by the Original Creditor .   now default notices are not issued for OD A/C's (which ties in to the possible loan confusion and scam settlement i mentioned) . This tallies with a common mistake that many DCA's, including why i keep mentioning 1st credit, which is the previous name for Intrum, made on numerous claims and was one of the reasons for the name change. To Hide that They lost many Statutory Demand and court claims over the non existence of a DN or proof of it's issuance by the OC (a DCA can't issue a DN) .. No copy of a default notice is fatal to to successful  litigation.   even though in this OD case one was not ever needed. (Poor particulars of claim showing copy and paste, and never expecting a claim to be defended but responded to by a wet themselves response , which you did by settling a loan which you believed was the claimed debt when it never was)    other than that you indicate you made an OOC F&F offer in 09-20  have you advanced this option since ?   dx
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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CEL PCN Claimform - White Cross Business Park***Claim Discontinued*** now going for GDPR Breach claim


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Makes no odds if they discontinue their claim...your CC proceeds on its own merts.

 

Andy

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Firstly, what you've achieved so far deserves a standing ovation!  Not only have they wet themselves re their own case they actually want to pay your counterclaim costs.  I've read loads of cases of P

oops was thinking of something else thanks Andy.

Dear All,   BN, BF, HB, - Thank you for your comments.    Yes sorry, i wanted to save some time by doing that as I wanted to carry out the posting ASAP OK, I have redacted the

I understand that you use a private/work parking space on land which belongs to them and that you have to drive across another car park area in order to access it.

I understand that there is no other access to your work parking space.

I understand that CEL then issued a PCN and an hour trying to enforce it against you in the courts.

I understand that you have defended – although I haven't seen a defence and also you've counterclaimed – possibly on the basis of harassment.

 

I understand that the claimants have now decided to withdraw the case and they have issued a notice of discontinuance.

You have been advised to drop the counterclaim – that you have decided not to.

I've looked at your counterclaim, and I think that it has no merit and you are simply making your life complicated and that you should go along with the discontinuance and then try to put it behind you.
I'm sure it's been all very stressful – but the advice given here as to the counterclaim is good advice. That's what you came here for and you would be very wrong not take it.

I haven't seen your defence – and I would be interested to see it. I suspect that you haven't based your defence on the right kind of argument which is that if I understand the relationship between the two car parks correctly, then there is an easement and you are entitled as a matter of law to cross the first car park in order to access the second in order to take up your parking space.

The work car park is what is called a "dominant estate" and the one that you cross is a "servient estate".

The law would not permit a piece of land to exist without some way of accessing it and so where there is only one way through then there is automatically an easement – or right of way over it in order to reach the dominant piece of land.

This would have been the basis of my defence and frankly I think it would be unassailable.

Maybe you'd like to post up a copy of the defence that you originally produced – redacted. I notice that it was removed at some point.

Also, I notice that you tend to take long breaks from attending to this thread. I think that's unhelpful



 

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1 hour ago, burmafriday said:

c) we actually have formidable proof that their actions were not only reckless but unnecessary ...

the area of land where we parked was not in their jurisdiction to police.

eh?^^

 

as for the rest

the post above yours from EB already details your course of action

exhaust When you have whipped them in court a complaint to the ICO and the DVLA copied to your MP should be made. FIRST.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi All,

 

Thank you for your valuable comments and getting back fast.

 

Firstly, I like to apologise for the long gap.

 

You are right Bankfodder, I should have informed CAG that things were delayed.

It started with CEL not submitting their DQ.

 

We informed the court of this only to find that the Court gave them extension.

We have no idea if they applied to the court as we were not informed neither by CEL or the court.  

Then from out of the blue, we learnt the court granted them one-month extension.

 

the last three months was just wasted till finally a hearing date was set for a day in October.

All docs. either side were to be submitted by 01 Oct. which CEL failed to do and then we received this Discontinuance Notice

 

I will get back to CAG with a copy of our defence as soon as I have redacted.

 

In the meantime, after they submitted their Notice of Discontinuance, on Tuesday, in the evening they sent a private email to us saying that as they discontinued the case, they suggested that we should like-wise “discontinue our counterclaim”. They gave us 7 days to agree and said they reserve the right to show their letter to the Judge.

 

Yesterday evening, they sent an email offering to reimburse our costs for counterclaim if we discontinued and again gave us 7 days to agree.

 

Again, I have to redact the documents to post on CAG and I will get that done and forward them.

 

Should I use PM to all in this discussion or simply post on CAG?

 

Thank you

Warm regards

BF

 

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well done then

they threw the towel in and are paying your fee for the counterclaim if you drop it.

 

thats a really important win win as it's now obvious they know the game is up about these breaches of GDPR Regulation.

 

the choice is yours really, you could get a couple £100's out of 'em if you did continue, but you need to carefully weigh this up against the other issues you presently are dealing with....and what numerous siteteam members seem to be recommending before and after we knew you were CC'ing... and thats never do that and you case is not very strong.

 

we don't really need to see anything.

we know what they look like.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Brilliant getting them to discontinue.

 

Magnificent that they have offered to pay your counterclaim costs.

 

I agree with dx.  Grab their snivelling climbdown offer with both hands.  Your counterclaim is not strong and could easily backfire against you.

 

If you want to continue the fight later and give them even more of a kicking then you could go after them for breaching your data protection.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • Andyorch changed the title to CEL PCN Claimform - White Cross Business Park***Claim Discontinued***

Hi,

 

dx and Dave - Thank you for your messages.

 

1.)  If you don't need to see the defence and CC then OK. 

 

2.)  As for the CC - i understand your comments. Its an issue for us and we need to discuss it between us. 

 

3.)  In the mean time, let me advise you that we do have a formidable case because we can prove that they acted absolutely recklessly and had no right to issue the PCN.

 

More specifically, we can prove and have proven in our CC that they should not have issued the PCN in the first place.  They were told by the landlords of the private land on which my wife parked to stop issuing PCN's on their Private land (Cease and Desist (CD) order) and yet rather than dropping the case altogether at that point in time (which was way before the case started) they chose to continue to the bitter end. 

 

4.)  We have also declared right from the outset, our fees and costs which are actual fees we charge to our clients.  We told them why they were valid and that we will claim these fees in full. We think that is the reason why they want us to Discontinue with out CC.

 

4.)  Of course, now they have seen our defence and CC - which included a copy of the CD they are dropping their claim and they want us to stop the counter claim. 

 

5.) If we discontinue our CC, then we will not be able to serve them a writ later on our claim.

 
We will discuss this and get back to CAG.

 

Thank you again  

Warm regards

BF

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All, 

 

Firtly, thank you to all for your help and suggestions so far. I really am very grateful.

 

We have had numerous, very in dept  discussions and my wife is very, very keen to progress with the counter claim. 

 

I want to establish why you say we have little chance and that our counter claim does not have much merit? We note your comments that we will only receive about £200  at best.

 

Firstly, we have declared the cost from the beginning and these are very real costs we submitted. My wife, whilst retired, (only retired because she has to look after her ill parents and myself) still commands these rates in her industry. We did not  pull these figures out of the air. Secondly, defending this irresponsible writ has been a serious amount of work. CEL had broken every CPR rule. They did not copy us and submit their appliations always late.

 

In the meantime, having submitted their application to discontine the case, they now contacted us to say that as they have discontinued, our counter claim is now finished and we cannot continue with it. Of course we have ignored this.

 

We have 28 days to apply for a Stay to their appliation for discontinuance and our counterclaim is surely still valid, irrespective of whether they discontinue their claim or not.

 

Have a great weekend.

Best/BF

 

 

 

 

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Firstly, what you've achieved so far deserves a standing ovation!  Not only have they wet themselves re their own case they actually want to pay your counterclaim costs.  I've read loads of cases of PPCs being humiliated in court but never one like yours.  They have taken a totally-deserved right hiding.  Well done!

 

It's precisely because of the brilliant work you've done that virtually all the regulars here are concerned you could throw part of it away with the counterclaim.  You talk about your wife's industry but then logically someone who delivers pizzas would ask for a different hourly rate.  The court will probably have an amount it considers reasonable.  I've heard the figure of £19 (or £19.50, not sure, say £20 for easy maths!) being used in small claims for preparation costs.  £2000 / £20 = 100 hours preparation.  You can't really claim you've put 100 hours into preparing for the case.  

 

You want £500 for harassment.  The court sets a very high bar for harassment.

 

We're not saying just to give in.  Going on to really teach these crooks a lesson is exactly what they deserve (and your wife deserves too for everything she's had to put up with).  An alternative strategy would be to accept their £115 and draw a line under this case ...

 

... and then clobber them for a GDPR breach.  I've seen £250 as the base figure, but for all the reasons you've stated theirs is an extremely serious breach, so maybe go for £1000.

 

Have a good weekend you too - the football went well this afternoon for me so I'm in a good mood at this end!

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I agree with FTM dave that you should drop the counter claim.

 

Even if you win with it, you could still have to pay CEL's Court costs.

Crazy but it's true.

 

A far better way would be to go for breaching your GDPR which could bring in around £500 with no risk of having to pat their costs.

 

Better still would be for you to play hardball with them now and go for the GDPR breach from them without having to pay for the Court fee.

 

At the same time go for your other costs for the time you took to defend yourself etc .etc.

Good luck whatever you decide.

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urm.. not sure if you win you'd still be liable to pay their costs...

but.

 

as i said long ago..

 

drop the CC

raise a sep claim if you think it's holds water.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Might be better to drop CC get them to pay your CC cost then go after them as a new move under GDPR easy win there as by their own admission and actions have admitted they had no right to access and process your data.

We could do with some help from you.

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Dear Dave, Lookinforinfor, dx and brassnecked.

 

Thank you for your suggestions and advice.

OK I will advise my dear wife accordingly and try and convince her to follow it.

 

I will definitely need your help to claim for their breach of GDPR  as both my wife and I are unfamiliar with GDPR  and its beach. Neither of us know what GDPR these guys have breached and how we can claim. 

 

So I guess the first thing to do will be to try and negotiate for not only our court fees but also for what ever else we can claim from them (as LookingforInfo advised) 

 

But I can forsee that they would stipulate full and final settlement and include some clause so that we can not take any further action against them......

 

But, assuming that does not happen, once that aspect is settled,

we can then claim against GDPR. Is that the "proper" sequence?

 

thank you again

 

All the best/BF

 

Edited by burmafriday
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GDPR is the regulations which mandate how they can access and process data it supercededs the provisions in Tthe data protection Act by making them stricter.  they breached GDPR when they asked DVLA for keeper data as they had no lawful reason to do so she wasn't parking on land under their control, merely using a right of access, their chucking in the towel so completely is evidence of that, the y want you to go away as they know they have messed up.

We could do with some help from you.

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:yo:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Be aware that making a separate claim under GDPR is not as straightforward as making a part 7 money claim.There are risks and costs associated subject to what track its placed in.

 

It is possible to add an additional claim to a Counter Claim ...which would keep the claim in the same track and part of the Part 20 counterclaim.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part20#20.7

 

Andy

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Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for your message. I was just about to post a message regarding the latest developments so your note is very timely

 

Regarding latest developments the following is the situation

 

Dear All,

 

1. We received a notice from CEL that because they have discontinued their claim, they consider the matter is now closed as we have not submitted our counter claim, However, my wife replied to the email that the Counter Claim was attached to the Defence Documents which was submiteed and copied to them.

 

In any event they knew that there is a Counter Claim because they asked us to drop it within 7 days and then they offered to pay our court fee only. !!

 

2. Firstly, there is an issue here. CEL submitted their notice of discontinuance 2 days after the deadline for their court fees to be paid. And also, as far as we are aware, they have not paid their court fees.

 

3. Surely their case should be struck out by the court for this failure to pay their fees on time - irrespective of their submission of the Notice of Discontinuance two days after the deadline date which they obviously made after the receipt of the Defence Documents.

 

4. As for their comment that we have not submitted our counter claim, this is definitely not the case as we made the Couter Claim and submitted this when we replied to their writ. So, as far as we are concerned, the counter claim is still very valid

 

5. As we are within our 28 days limitation, we have not advised the court whether we are accepting their notice of discontinuance or not. We acknowledged its receipt only. We have submited the Case Plan to the court today.

 

6. Although it was not stated that we have to copy CEL, we are copying them anyway

 

7. As advised earlier to CAG we will follow CAG’s advice but we will action this before the hearing date

 

8. However having had the latest advice from Andy, 

a. should we add the GDPR claim as an additional claim, and

b. should we add the County Council as an additional party to the counter claim as previously advised.  

 

thank you

Warm regards

BF

 

 

 

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We have submited the Case Plan to the court today.

 

:confused: What exactly is a " case plan " 

We could do with some help from you.

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just be very careful, the court has confirmed their discontinuance?

We could do with some help from you.

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The courts do not confirm Discontinuance BN...the claimant is responsible for serving Notice N279 on the defendant.

We could do with some help from you.

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oops was thinking of something else thanks Andy.

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We could do with some help from you.

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burmafriday,

 

as said upthread, your case is unique, I've never seen the PPC give in and then offer to pay counterclaim costs!  For that reason I've tried to ask advice from Site Team members with a hell of a lot more experience than me, as your case is so out of the ordinary.

 

As said many times, many/most/all Caggers think you should drop the counterclaim.  Maybe humiliate CEL further and say you want to receive their cheque before you withdraw.

 

Regarding GDPR, you've mentioned that you know that they know that the PCN should never have been issued.  Can you give us a few more details please on this point?  It will be important to show that they deliberately obtained your data from the DVLA when they had no reason to do so.

We could do with some help from you.

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Proof of what DX is asking would drop them right in it.

We could do with some help from you.

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Dear All,

 

So Sorry we have been extremely busy with my work and family emergencies as my outlaws, who are in their mid and late eighties are very ill and they needed medical attention at hospitals. 

 

Andy - Case plan is simply a sheet issued by the court to confirm who will be attending for the both parties and at what time the people will each arrive -  apparently, attendies from either side may no arrive together at the court due to Covid.

 

BN - The Court has not confirmed the discontinuance. A Judge at the Court has to agree to the Discontinuance but that has not yet taken place. We have 28 days to submit a stay to this notice. 

 

FTMDave – I have always followed CAG advice since the first day I spotted the site and joined. CAG has helped me on numerous occasions. My wife did not want to drop the Counter Claim so it was essential I support her and try and talk her out of it gently.

 

The PCN should never have been issued in the first place because my wife’s parking area is on a private piece of land. A company leased that area of land (Call it Area A) from the main owner. The buildings in Area A are sub-let out to various tenants with Parking facilities; of which, the company my wife worked for is one such tenant.

  

To reach Area A, my wife has to drive through the main car park (Area B) of the main owner.

 

It is only Area B which Claimants are authorised to police. Area A is NOT under their jurisdiction so they cannot police there. This is still the case to this day and more specifically, this is something which the Claimant is fully aware. There is an agreement between the lessors of Area A and the main owner of Area B and it is written in this agreement. This, the  owner of Area B would instruct the Claimant,  not to police Area A.

 

After the Claimant issued the PCN to my wife, the solicitors of the Lessors of Area A, issued a cease and desist order to them and notified the solicitors of the owner of Area B wherein they stated clearly that this act was illegal and in breach of the terms of the lease. So, all the Claimant had to do was to cancel the PCN. We have a copy of this letter and so we can substantiate it.

 

BN + FTMDave – So, there you have it. This is the explanation you wanted. They were told to stop the case and drop it.  

 

But instead, the Claimant pursued the PCN relentlessly even after my wife pleaded with them to stop the matter and cancel the PCN and explained the situation with copies of the cease and desist  letter.

  

We are following CAG’s advice and to do that properly, we need to notify the Court  where:

a.       We will apply to the court to have the Notice of Discontinuance set aside.

b.       We will also apply to the court to add an additional case against the Claimants for obtaining data on my wife falsely.

c.       We will also apply to the Court to add an additional Defendant to our counter claim – that being the bosses of the Claimant – the owner of Area B

 

After submission of these applications, along the lines suggested by CAG, we will negotiate a settlement with the Claimants

 

Any further advice from CAG on (b) and (c) above will be very helpful and very welcome.

 

Thank you

BF

 

 

Edited by burmafriday
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  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL PCN Claimform - White Cross Business Park***Claim Discontinued*** now going for GDPR Breach claim

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