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    • Yes but I think in a small claims court it will be far harder to prove. I have plenty of evidence to discredit the Director but again it could still not be enough.   She will be a month with no money and I think it’s far more risky than a tribunal where this action alone could result in the desired outcome.   I have said to her to request a face to face meeting to enable both parties to conclude, ideally resolve and at that point we can decide what action we wish to take.    
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Consumer2020

Vodafone Case From 2016!

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Hello everyone!

 

I was hoping to get some feedback on the draft of an email I intend to send to Vodafones Chief Executive, Nick Read and also the rest of the board.

does anybody know any good ways to obtain directors contact details online?

I have used hunter.io so far, but would like to explore this further to be able to get my message across more efficiently by reaching decision makers. 

 

I have logged the complaint with CISAS already and am also exploring other legal options to get justice in any case 

-- it would be great to hear more opinions on that!

 

Speak soon



------------------------------------------
 

Quote

 

Dear Mr. Read,

 

I am writing to you concerning my complaint logged under Vodafone 1 Net account with number xxxxx and two corresponding inactive mobile lines — xxxxx  and xxxxx .

So far Vodafone’s official complaint procedure has proven to be extremely inefficient, which is why I would now like to bring my case to your attention and the attention of the board of directors. This will hopefully get case resolved swiftly and will also serve you as an insight into institutional customer abuse and impact on your stakeholders that are in complete misalignment with your company’s purpose.

 

Trying to resolve Vodafone’s breach of agreement with my company and stop Vodafone from causing me personal damages,  have so far reached out to Vodafone on at least forty different occasions and to Lowell on at least fifteen.

 

In contrast to Lowell’s agents your agents’ conduct has been disturbingly egregious and absolutely appalling given how humiliating, abusive, deceiving, negligent, and just grossly unprofessional and inefficient they were. It has not only taken away enormous amounts of my valuable time, but it has also caused me serious financial and emotional distress, especially now during the COVID-19 outbreak.

 

On 4/7/2016 and 5/7/2016 about a week after you abruptly suspended our services without any prior notice, you sent us termination letters, where you were referring to clause 10.2 of Vodafone General Terms and Conditions.

 

However, none of the articles in the agreement we signed with you included these terms and conditions and neither were we aware of them in any way.

Arising from this, Vodafone breached our agreement by wrongfully terminating it outside of the scope of the agreed terms and conditions listed on our actual agreements.

 

If Vodafone would want to make any changes to our agreements, you should give us 30 days notice as per Clause 7b in our agreement.

Clause 7b also states that you would inform us about our right to terminate the agreement under clause 11b, which you did not do, but we would certainly terminate the agreement under clause 11b, if you would tell us that. 

 

In addition to that you were wrongfully alleging us in your communications that we were using an automated bot for sending text messages, which we did not and therefore that could never be proven by Vodafone, neither it ever was. In either case, whether your bold allegations were correct or not, you should warn us before disconnecting the services, which you did not do.

 

Disconnecting your service in such a manner caused us unprecedented financial damage.

In the period when the services were suspended we were making a minimum of £300 a day using them, so in seven days that that was the least amount of time it took us to reestablish our own business service reliant on telecommunication, you caused us at least £2100 in financial damages.

While the very least you could do to compensate for these damages and as an act of good will for your mistakes would be to withdraw from the agreement without charging us, you failed to do so.

 

It took us serious amount of energy and time to communicate with Vodafone and multiple agents at your company completely agreed with us and promised us the full balance of £595.21 to be immediately written off.

 

After Vodafone’s failure to do so, we have made further enquiries and then requested a deadlock letter to be issued. Further irregularities were discovered when Vodafone yet again failed to comply with its own terms and conditions and complaint procedure.

 

Moreover, Article B of the agreement says that all the charges until the end of the minimum period must be paid, except if Vodafone ends this agreement by giving us 30 days’ written notice (clause 11a) or because Vodafone is permanently unable to provide services. The only way that Vodafone’s termination of the agreement could be interpreted by our agreement is by the fact that you were unable to provide us your service as you abruptly suspended it to us, which means that the charges at the termination of the agreement must not be paid.

 

Besides, Article B in the agreement further confirms that in these situations we don’t have to pay all the plan charges, until the end of the minimum period, but says that we may have to pay for the mobile equipment.

 

Clause D in the agreement then says that if the agreement ends before the end of the minimum period and we have to pay for the mobile equipment, Vodafone would tell us the original value on which the payment is based in the order form or welcome note. However, you did not inform us about the original value of the equipment, and instead charged some random amount of £595.21 for the termination while failing to break down the charges or explain them, despite the fact that we were requesting that from your agents.

 

Based on all this it can be concluded that you tried to charge us outside of the scope of our agreement, therefore the charges are not valid, neither are we in any way liable, neither could be in any way liable for any of the charges for services till the end of minimum period nor for the equipment. Not only the charges are not valid, the damages that you have caused us astronomically outweigh them.

 

Since we have not heard back from Vodafone we were in good faith that this time the charges were finally written off correctly, but it later turned out that was not the case. Lowell started sending letters to me as a physical person claiming I owe the debt. Since it was me signing the agreements with Vodafone on behalf of my company xxxxx  as its company director, more mistakes were identified and it does not appear they were only made by Vodafone, but also by Moorfields and Lowell whom any of the debts were supposed to be sold to.

 

I have come to realise this recently in 2020 when I have in enormous shock discovered that it was actually my personal credit file that has been affected.

This is not to say any credit file at all should be affected, but if there was any it was supposed to be the one of my company.

 

At this point I have also came to realise we were also seriously mislead at the very beginning when signing the agreements at the Vodafone branches.

We were absolutely certain that we were entering the contract as a company, xxxxx  and that I was representing it as a company director.

I was completely unaware of anything that would make me enter the agreement as physical person.

 

Here is the evidence confirming that from our perspective we were entering the contract as a business:

 

As a xxxxx  company director I told Vodafone that I would like to get a business plan in the store, which is something my business partner can testify to. 

 

We gave Vodafone our company bank account to be charged, and you have been charging it by direct debit on a monthly basis.

 

On the contracts we signed it is clearly presented that we are signing them as a company.

Please see both contracts attached to this email where company’s name and address are listed.

 

We were referring to all our plans/lines with Vodafone as business plans on all the occasions when communicating with Vodafone and at no point in time it has been brought to our attention that we were wrong. Furthermore, Vodafone agents themselves were also referring to our account at Vodafone as a business one, especially for being stored on your business platform.

 

The incorrect terms and conditions Vodafone was referring to at the end of the contract were titled: “Microsoft Word - General Terms (Small Business Customers) (from October 2013).docx”

 

All this brings us to the conclusion that affecting my personal credit file by reporting inaccurate information to the credit reporting agencies has been a huge mistake that has to be immediately corrected. Another compelling reason for that is also the fact that the charge is completely random and inaccurate. 

 

Given the distress all this has caused me, I am also requesting compensation. I have spent numerous hours trying to correct the mistakes that you have made and suffered huge amounts of distress, both financially and emotionally. 

 

Claim 1: £600 —> Breach of our agreement by wrongfully suspending our services on both of our lines without giving us a correct 30 days notice.

 

Claim 2: £2,100.00 —> Business damages arising from the termination of the mobile services we relied on as a business values at £300 a day. It took us at least seven days to re-establish our mobile services with another provider but during this time we suffered significant financial loss. 

 

Claim 3: £600 —> Emotional distress and anxiety arising from multiple letters threatening me personally with legal actions. Also distress arising from agents shouting on me and insulting me on the phone.

 

Claim 4: £300 —> Negligence. Agents gave me wrong information on multiple occasions and did not respect Vodafone's own complaint procedure or were not fully aware of it. They connected me with wrong managers and gave me wrong emails which all made the whole complaints process extremely inefficient and time consuming. Many of the calls have also been disconnected by agents' mistakes after I had been waiting 20 or more minutes on the line. 

 

Claim 5: £500 —> Disrespecting their duty of care. Agents in the branches misleading us into believing that we are contracting our company with Vodafone, despite us giving us all the relevant information about our business and clearly telling them that we are only looking for our business to enter the contract with Vodafone, not me as a physical person. 

 

Claim 6: £500 —> Personal financial damages as I was unable to take a credit for a new phone, or receive personal loans because of my credit history with defaulted Vodafone account.

 

UPDATE: Today Lowell came to a conclusion that they agree with me about the fact that this was a business contract signed on behalf of my company.

They said they will remove default they put on my personal credit account and return the case back to Vodafone for me to settle it with them as they believe they should not have mislead them neither.

 

In the meantime Vodafone sent me a deadlock letter where they again completely ignored all the important points made in the complaint to them...

So negligent from them,  and so stressful and humiliating for me!

 

I hope this gives you enough evidence for you to finally realise the mistake that you have done and makes you correct it, especially with credit referencing agencies. 

 

Sincerely yours, 

 

xxxxx

 


 

docs2.pdf

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Anyone? 🤷‍♂️😅

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Hi, we've received your message pointing out that this thread has received no replies and also asking us to delete it.

First of all have to say that I'm very sorry that nobody has come back and commented on your letter – which looks very thorough and obviously because it appears that you've now had a result (according to your message) it has been very effective.

Once again, I'm very embarrassed that you had no response to this thread. It's extremely interesting and I don't know why it has passed us by – except that everything is very difficult at the moment for everyone due to the crisis, and a rise in the number of problems been posted in other parts of the forum.

You shouldn't have to do it of course, but I suppose that if we had received a contact message earlier pointing out that this thread needed attention, then we would have dealt with it. Once again, you shouldn't need to do that and I'm sorry.

I'm afraid that we don't delete material. Everything contributes to the knowledge base and your circumstances seem to be so interesting they are especially useful to other people who might find themselves in the same position – and that's what makes our collection of stories here so useful.

Finally, I have to congratulate you on the result. It would be very helpful if you would come and tell everybody exactly what has been agreed – and you think that it is a really fair result given the amount of time and trouble and embarrassment you have been put to.

If we understand what has now been promised to you, we might be able to suggest some further move by you to claim some kind of compensation – but maybe you have managed that already.

Once again, well done on having achieved a resolution of this problem. It's very good that you managed to get Vodafone to listen – most often they don't and that is one of the problems about this company.

Please do let us know what happened

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Hello and thank you for reply, I really appreciate! 

 

I logged a complaint with CISAS and then reached out to all the directors Vodafone Limited and Vodafone Group Plc.

I researched directors via companies house and guessed their emails.

 

I also reached out to Ms Lamprell via Linkedin where she replied, gave me her email and said to she would have someone look into it.

I sent her an email where I tried to present my case as a some sort of consultant giving insight about what I have learned about their customer service and what they could improve, mainly suggesting to hire a really highly trained professional in English and & Welsh law, so that person could take the cases that are being escalated and also train other staff.

 

The next day, Vodafone came back to me with settlement offer.

I believe everything has been pushed by Ms Lamprell who really seems a top executive to me (she will apparently receive MBE for her business services) and understands that customers are in fact important stakeholders; although the truth is I did email a few other directors too, so who knows...

 

In the settlement letter they pretty much negligently ignored almost all my listed points about the things where they were arguably very wrong; but what they did was they admitted some extra things where they were wrong and on that basis waived the charges and on that basis they will reverse the default on my credit file as well.

 

Moreover, the settlement they offered me was based on the distress scale presented by CISAS where £200 is maximum for severe distress and they added £50 so I should get £250 altogether. I accepted the settlement, simply because I am too exhausted with this case.

 

To be honest I am still upset about the case and don't feel very satisfied given what I have been through because of Vodafone.

I do believe if I pushed further and took them to small claims court or if I somehow pressed further through CISAS, I could get compensated for the actual damage caused to me and my business.

 

I would need to play on a higher level with their lawyers for that, and it would require me extra time to study legislation and I would have to take extra risks too. I am honestly very upset about Vodafone's abusive systems, as there must be many vulnerable people going through it and I think it is unlikely it ends up as well for them -- quite the opposite. 

 

Given anyones experience I would love to know how would you evaluate risks of pushing this further and what else could be done. 

 

Thanks so much for all the answers in advance, it's a wonderful forum!

 

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I'm trying to go through your story in your opening post – but it's pretty long so it will take some time.


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Well I've looked through the letter – and is extremely complicated – but I have to say that it's an amazingly well laid out and well structured letter – and it scares the hell out of me!

I think it would be very helpful if you could possibly distill it into a rather more brief bullet pointed chronology.

Also, you refer to various clauses in their terms and conditions. Maybe you could reproduce these here. Use our quotes function as it compartmentalised its things and makes it all much more easy to follow.

Quote

Our quotes function        image.png

 

But I gather that you set up a business account in your company name and they seem to have been treating it as a personal account – although I'm not too clear what difference that has made.

They then suspended the account because they say that you had been abusing it and were in breach of a contractual term. You deny this
By suspending – rather than closing the account, they were able to say that you owe them the entire rest of the charges until the end of the contractual term. – A very convenient approach from Vodafone.

Then Vodafone made an entry on your personal credit file – even though it was a business account.

They then send it out for debt collection – and eventually Lowell's sole sense.

Apparently Lowell remove the default and cleaned up your personal credit file – but wouldn't it have been for Vodafone to do this?

If you could layout the chronology please to begin with – and then maybe in a subsequent post you could address the questions that I have put.

From the sounds it I think that you have got quite a good case for complaint although I understand that they have now paid you some level of compensation – with this made subject to any conditions such as full and final settlement et cetera?

I would suggest that you send Vodafone an SAR immediately – and also one to Lowell. There free and so you might as well get them off as quickly as possible. Basically want everything – including recordings of conversations, notes, screen notes, correspondence – internal and external – and anything else – on any matter whatsoever. All data that they hold on you
 

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Apparently Lowell remove the default and cleaned up your personal credit file – but wouldn't it have been for Vodafone to do this?

 

Not if the debt had been Assigned to Lowell....they are the new Data Controller .

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Hey, thank you very much again for your replies!

 

- We go to the branches and ask for business accounts, but as I give them my personal name they register them as sole trader accounts in their systems, regardless of my company name being on the agreement. 

  • Suspended our services for high volume messaging -- that is not explicitly covered in terms and conditions
  • Send us letters referencing wrong terms and conditions that we did not sign
  • Terminate the contract and come with a random balance number.
  • We argue unsuccessfully, but they don't follow up with the requested deadlock letter.
  • Pass our account to Lowell in 2017
  • I pick the account back up when I notice it is affecting my credit file in 2020
  • I work on the case for about three weeks and file a complaint with CISAS
  • I give Lowell my contract and they see it is my company's name on it so they pass it back to Vodafone
  • Vodafone wants to settle my account quoting they should not charge me anything on the first place and they offer £250 as a compensation for distress.
  • I mistakenly accept the offer because of confusing wording and thinking that the third party adjudicator was already involved in the case, although they would basically get involved on the later stage. 
  • I make a complaint as per CISAS and try to reverse the settlement in the system and have third party adjudicator having a proper look into my case and hopefully reward me a much fairer compensation for all the damages. 

 

I have made a SAR request with both Vodafone and Lowell so far, but still waiting for the Vodafone to send it. 

 

I am now waiting for CISAS to respond, but because I am still upset how much damage this has caused me I am considering taking them to small claims court. 

For that I am researching what are the acts I would have to reference in that case.

 

Obviously Consumer Rights Act 2015 and then Data Protection Act 2018 and perhaps some acts regarding entering into contractual agreements

-- can you help with that maybe? 

 

 

 

My main concern at the moment is to how to express claims well in a legal language, because £250 they offered feels just patronizing given that there has been everything clearly written in black and white, yet I have had to go though this damaging and humiliating experience. 

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Thank you.

First of all, this is not chronology so we don't have any sense of the timeline.

It's still rather complicated – but maybe when you produce a chronology it will come more into focus.

However, there are a few things that we can start to tease out.
You say that you accepted £250 in an offer which was intended to reflect distress. Although you say that you accepted this offer mistakenly, it may well be that you have no further rights on this issue because of course it would have been up to you to understand the situation properly before accepting any kind of financial offer.

However, it would be useful to understand the reach of this offer and so please could you post up the offer letter by uploading it in PDF format.
You say that "high-volume messaging" is not explicitly covered in the terms and conditions – but there may be references to "fair use policy" and it may be an interpretive problem rather than looking for words which specifically match your situation. So it will be helpful to know what words Vodafone were relying upon and also what was the extent of your high-volume messaging. Did they give you any warnings.
You say that they referred to terms and conditions which you did not sign. However, it isn't necessary to sign terms and conditions. We would have to understand more about the context – but generally speaking if there is an agreement which refers to terms and conditions from the outset and you then embark upon the agreement and use the services, then all the signs would be that you've accepted the conditions of use. Signed written terms and conditions are generally speaking only required in contracts for property or copyright or shares.

You say that the contract was put in your sole name despite the fact that the company name was on the agreement. We don't have a chronology so we don't see how long this went on for and you don't explain why you didn't raise any objections to this – or maybe you did?

You say that you have sent Vodafone and Lowell an SAR but "so far" you are waiting for a response. This suggests that you sent the SAR some time ago – but you haven't told us anything about when this might have happened.

You are referring to obligations under the Consumer Rights Act but I'm afraid that these obligations refer to contracts between a trader and a consumer – and you are not trading as a consumer so these probably wouldn't apply to you.

Finally, you are worried about expressing a claim in legal language. If you begin a small claim then you certainly don't need any legal language – and in fact that kind of approach simply gets in the way. Also, it seems to me that you are gearing up to bring a court claim – which is fine, in my book – but you haven't identified your cause or causes of action and you don't have a plan.

I think we need to slow down and have a more careful and methodical look at the situation. Otherwise you're simply going to find yourself in trouble

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I hope this is better now: 

  • May 2015 & November 2015. We go to the branches and ask for business accounts, but as I give them my personal name they register them as sole trader accounts in their systems, regardless of my company name being on the agreement. 
  • Late June 2016. VF Suspends our services for high volume messaging -- that is not explicitly covered in terms and conditions
  • Beginning of July 2016. VF sends us letters referencing wrong terms and conditions that we did not sign.
  • Beginning of August 2016. VF terminates the contract and come with a random balance number.
  • During July 2016. We argue unsuccessfully, but they don't follow up with the requested deadlock letter.
  • Early 2017. VF Pass our account to Lowell.
  • 15 May 2020. I pick the account back up when I notice it is affecting my credit file in 2020
  • 21 May 2020. After working full time on the case for about one week and file a complaint with CISAS.
  • 29 May 2020. I give Lowell my contract and they see it is my company's name on it so they pass it back to Vodafone
  • 4 June 2020. Vodafone wants to settle my account quoting they should not charge me anything on the first place and they offer £250 as a compensation for distress.
  • 4 June 2020. I mistakenly accept the offer because of confusing wording and thinking that the third party adjudicator was already involved in the case, although they would basically get involved on the later stage. 
  • 6 June 2020. I make a complaint as per CISAS and try to reverse the settlement in the system and have third party adjudicator having a proper look into my case and hopefully reward me a much fairer compensation for all the damages. 

 

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CISAS now thankfully reopened the settlement and we will therefore go for another round or two. First VF will have a chance to defend the case again and will hopefully increase their offer. If I do not agree with whatever they say, the case will finally go to the third party adjudicator. 

 

On 07/06/2020 at 07:48, BankFodder said:

However, it would be useful to understand the reach of this offer and so please could you post up the offer letter by uploading it in PDF format.

It says on the document that it is private and confidential and that it can not be disclosed to any person or organisation not directly involved in adjudication unless it is necessary in order to enforce the decision...

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14 minutes ago, Consumer2020 said:

It says on the document that it is private and confidential and that it can not be disclosed to any person or organisation not directly involved in adjudication unless it is necessary in order to enforce the decision...

Send a copy to me by email at our admin email address

 

Also, I suggest that you involve us in your dealings will CISAS to the extent that you let us know what settlement has been proposed and we can give you an opinion as to whether it is reasonable or not.


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On 07/06/2020 at 06:48, BankFodder said:

You say that "high-volume messaging" is not explicitly covered in the terms and conditions – but there may be references to "fair use policy" and it may be an interpretive problem rather than looking for words which specifically match your situation. So it will be helpful to know what words Vodafone were relying upon and also what was the extent of your high-volume messaging. Did they give you any warnings.

I actually thought myself first that might be the case, but surprisingly there is nothing written in regards to "fair use policy". I uploaded terms already, but the image quality gets too low for us to be able to read it once uploaded.

There is article 4 that says "Using the services -- the rules" and section 4 b) says: "You must never use your mobile equipment or the services for anything we might consider to abusive, illegal, fraudulent or nuisance."

But given the fact it was a company's account I believe we used the services pretty fairly in alignment with that, especially given the fact that we were on unlimited texting plan and never received any warnings from them before they suspended our services. 

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If you upload documents as a scanned PDF, then generally speaking the qualities retained. It's when documents are uploaded in JPEG format that we have difficulty.

Have you sent an SAR to Vodafone?

You haven't told us the extent of your texting even though I did ask you about this


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Oh, I see, I can try pdf again then, one moment...

Yes, I sent them SAR request on 1st June. 

 

And yes we did text a lot for business and were sending group texts in iPhone.  

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I'm trying to understand Vodafone's failings here. I've come up with a bit of a list

 

  • Failed to open account correctly – placing in personal names rather than business name breach of contract and breach of data protection.
  • Suspends services contrary to contract??? - Breach of contract?  If the high-volume messages are permitted under contract.
  • Peremptory termination of contract  Breach of contract- if the high-volume messages is permitted under the contract
  • Incorrect account balance - breach of contract – if account is in personal names then also breach of data protection
  • Failure to produce deadlocked letter – breach of contract.
  • If the account balance et cetera is incorrect and the account was incorrectly set up, then the entry onto the credit file is also a breach of data protection rules.
  • Sharing data on this basis with a third party is also breach of data protection rules.

I'm afraid that there is still information missing here.

I'm afraid that there is still information missing here.

I asked you specifically about the extent of your high-volume messaging – and you haven't responded.
I also asked you about the terms and conditions that they were referring to – and we haven't seen them. Although you have posted some documents, you can simply photographed them rather than scanned them.

Surely if you are running a business you must have access to a scanner.
I think it is reasonable to ask you to present us with documents in a way that you would like them presented to yourself if you were providing help to somebody who had a problem.

 


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7 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I asked you specifically about the extent of your high-volume messaging – and you haven't responded.

How specific would you like me to be? We used group texts about twice a week. 

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What I am likely to be more specific than that. You say "group" texts. Doesn't it strike you that somebody might like to ask how many people in the group?


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47 minutes ago, Consumer2020 said:

I'm terribly sorry – I'm doing my best but all you've done is post up another photograph – slightly better this time but still a photograph of very very dense two column text in small print.

We just don't have the resources to be able to hunt through it. I can't even apply word search.

I've actually tried to convert it to text and the quality is so poor that it remains illegible. Here is a Microsoft Word version of what you have sent. We shouldn't have to do this.

 

Vodafone_T&C.docx

 

Also, I gather that what you are trying to put up are a copy of the terms and conditions which Vodafone are trying to apply to you – and you say that you are bound by some different terms and conditions – but we don't know what they are. In order to make any judgement here then we also need the comparator.

You may feel that I'm giving you a hard time, but it is getting to be a bit of a struggle to understand the whole situation. It shouldn't be this hard

Also, we haven't seen a document yet. I've received nothing in my email


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Also, when your service was suspended, were you given any warning about this?

Additionally, a suspension implies a temporary cessation of service and it will be resumed. Did Vodafone say anything about this when they suspended you?


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We were trying to reach about 1000 to 5000 different people on different occasions within a week from what I can remember, so for that it took us about I think up to 50 groups.

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Thank you. Now we need to see a legible copy of the terms and conditions that Vodafone say applied to you – and the comparator version which you say actually did apply to you.

By the way, I think you did very well getting CISAS to reopen the settlement. I certainly wouldn't have expected that.


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Incidentally, the reason that we are going through all of this is to understand the value of your losses or what you have suffered so that if and when CISAS come back with a different proposal, we are all in a position to decide whether or not it is a good proposal or whether you should decline it and follow your own course of action.

Of course what will be helpful from CISAS will be to see all of their findings because that will produce very useful information to put before a court and it will be very compelling evidence.


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27 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I'm terribly sorry – I'm doing my best but all you've done is post up another photograph – slightly better this time but still a photograph of very very dense two column text in small print.

We just don't have the resources to be able to  hunt through it. I can't even apply word search.

I've actually tried to convert it to text and the quality is so poor, here is a Microsoft Word version of what you have sent. We shouldn't have to do this.

 

Vodafone_T&C.docx 174.94 kB · 0 downloads

 

Also, I gather that what you are trying to put up are a copy of the terms and conditions which Vodafone are trying to apply to you – and you say that you are bound by some different terms and conditions – but we don't know what they are. In order to make any judgement here then we also need the comparator.

You may feel that I'm giving you a hard time, but it is getting to be a bit of a struggle to understand the whole situation. It shouldn't be this hard

Unfortunately I only have a phone to make photos at the moment, but all this actually made me realise I should send a better copy to CISAS somehow. I need to think how this can be done now. 

I do appreciate your time and effort in any case, it is a great forum and I am glad I discovered it and I think it is ok if you are a bit challenging, because I have a feeling they will be much harder there. 

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