NCP/BW ANPR PCN Claimform -paid- no dispensed ticket- Cheltenham Portland ST East *** Claim Dismissed***

[annoyedyep]

1 Date of the infringement: 03/01/2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 24/01/2019

 

3 Date received: 25/01/2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes

 

7 Who is the parking company? NCP

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Portland St East, Cheltenham

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under? BPA

 

 

I paid for parking at this car park, stupidly when asked, I input 'No' to a receipt. After my cash was taken, the machine didn't print out a windscreen ticket.

I also checked to see if my coins were returned, but they were not. So I have no evidence to show that I paid for parking.

 

 

I realise now that perhaps I shouldn't have, but in my appeal I stated that:

I was the driver, and that the machine was not printing on the day of my incident.

I asked NCP to provide evidence that the machine was working properly, and to provide parking records during the time/day of the incident.

 

My appeal was rejected, with them stating that they have checked that the machine was working and that they have no record of payment for my vehicle. However there was no evidence sent to me. They have asked for payment within 28 days again.

 

In this car park there is more than one machine, and I do know that the other payment machine was working on that day, as I saw another driver walk away with a printed windscreen ticket after paying. I did think at the time that it was a bit odd that I hadn't got one.

 

Since I have no proof that I paid, should I ignore or is there any hope to appeal to POPLA? Will they be able to help?

 

I feel like I shouldn't pay the charge just on principle because I know that I paid on the day.

 

Any help please!

[dx100uk]

was this an ANPR capture?

 

dx

[annoyedyep]

Yes it was

[Mrs O'Frog]

Oh blast. Had you not I.D'd the driver the POFA fail (past 14 days) would have meant that they had no right to transfer liability for the charge to the keeper. As it is, you've made the job much harder for yourself. Never mind, what's done is done, let's move forward.

 

Can you post up the NTK and photos of the signs? Redact your personal info.

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

[ericsbrother]

another person who has jumped the gun. Quite simply you paid and that is that so they have no reason to demand any further monies.

 

What does their NTK say you did wrong to breach their terms as quite often tthey say you owe them money for something that doesnt actually exist on their list of do's and dont's.

 

For the moment I would ignore them because you cant argue a negative and a court will be more likely to believe your version of events than POPLA will because they have a very limited remit of what they can consider and will probably trot out a "you didnt pay and display" despite the fact no ticket was spat out of the machine.

Edited February 22, 2019 by honeybee13
Paras, typos

[annoyedyep]

Here's the NTK

 

Signs on the entrance of car park

 

machine signs

 

Thanks for replies so far... The parking machine records the reg number, so that would prove that I had paid on the machine. So wouldn't they have to show the data to say I didn't?

 

 

 

pix.pdf

[dx100uk]

had to take down your ntk pcn number showing

might be better to put those all up in one multipage PDF please

so we can zoom and read the text on the signs hopefully

 

if not you'll need closer photo

the T&C's small print on signs and machine and by machine are important.

 

dx

[annoyedyep]

Here's my NTK with pics in PDF

 

Think I might have to get a close up pic of the T&C wording for this one.

 

How do they expect drivers to read this properly on entry to the car park?

 

Thanks all

NTK-pics.pdf

TC.pdf

TC2.pdf

Edited February 25, 2019 by dx100uk
merge

[ericsbrother]

you paid and that menas no breach of the terms.

the fact their machine is junk doesnt alter this fact.

 

the only problem is that you will have to convince someone that your version of events is a reliable one.

as you didnt get a receipt you have the problem that if you put in the wrog reg details you wont know that but they will as their records will have a payment that doesnt match a vehicle reg captured on the ANPR system.

 

as you paid they know there has been no breach and the input of the wrong details isnt a breach of contract but they will rather hell freezes over than admit that they have a payment that doesnt match any vehicle there that day and probably is for a non-existent vehicle and they still want to chisel money out of you.

 

You can ask for evidence regarding all of the vehicles' reg numbers input at that time but they will be likely to refuse this as they know that it wil show up the input error and they will have to admit wasting time and money which they can then not recover from you or anyone else.

 

The point is you paid and that is that.

 

What I would do is tell them you know about this type of error and that it is not a breach of contract as there is no specific contractual term that covers such a mistake and that you will be demanding they produce the payment log for that day should the matter get as far as court.

 

what sort of machine is the ticket machine because there are well known problems with METRIC machines so you can beat them with that stick once you have checked it out but otherwise stick to the above and do not enter into further correspondence if they decide to reject or ignore this attempt to sort out their mess.

Edited February 25, 2019 by dx100uk
spell/space

[annoyedyep]

Here is a close up of the T&Cs.

In my appeal I stated:

'I ask you to investigate whether the machine was functioning correctly and provide the evidence. I also request that the parking payment records are provided during the time period that you are querying non-payment.'

Their appeal refused letter mentioned that they had checked payment records but there were none with my vehicle details. However they did not provide me with the data.

Should I continue to write to them again, appeal to POPLA or ignore now? 

 

T&Cs.pdf

[ericsbrother]

they gave you a half truth and you didnt make the right point anyway. Still, no more than expected but in the future you never appeal unless you receive advice before you do  as to what grounds and how to phrase the appeal. this goes for anyone reading these threads as well, the parking co's often get things so wr9ong they dont create a liability  but appealing then can.

[annoyedyep]

I got this 'Final Reminder' over the weekend...

I'm wondering if I should continue to ignore or how to respond?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Final-notice.pdf

[dx100uk]

until/unless you receive a letter of claim from one of their favourite fake/tame solicitor id ignore.

also don't forget CAG is shelf help too.

 

dx

 

 

[ericsbrother]

this is all normal, read  a good few hundreds of threads so you get a feel for how they go about their money making.

Ignore is the way to go, you will likely get another shower writingto you but again that is par for the course. Yiou will also see that the amount when it gets to s dca leaps to £160. ask yourself when you sgned a credit agreement with this buch and then think about the lawfulness of the addition of unicorn food tax

[annoyedyep]

Latest letter - now moved on.

Should I continue to ignore?

 

Trace Letter.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

Correct just ignore their drivel.

 

You never had a contract with Trace so they cannot charge you anything.

 

few weeks and they may well come back and offer you a lesser amount to pay.

 

Kind of them when you owe them nothing at all but all the World loves a tryer.

[ericsbrother]

 all this means is that the parking co have spent £15 to get someone to send you scary letters known here as threatograms.

 

let them waste their money.

the idea of making the bill shoot up to £160 or whatever is to make you think that if you dont pay this now then they may ask for £200 next time and so forth. well, you didnt sign a credit agreement with them so no extras.

 

Unfortunatey you admitted being the driver so the parking co can add their costs to your bill if they state the amount on the signage.

[lookinforinfo]

It's my understanding that the 60 pound extra charge can be challenged. In the OFT Debt Guidance notice, one of their stipulations was under Unfair Practices 210.e  

Quote

. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

It won't be necessary for you to challenge that amount in Court since it probably won't get that far.

[ericsbrother]

the key thing here is that the first you heard about the unicorn food tax being added was from someone who has nothing to do with anything

 

so even if there was small print about extra collection charges on the signage ( god knows which would be applicable out of the forest of signs they have) then it would be an unfair contract for more than one reason anyway.

 

by the way you owe me £999 for this advice, my terms were available to see on the website

 

www.im-an-honest-crook.con

 

 page 19 bottom paragraph section 16(b) subsection 4(f) so you definitely owe the money as I deemed that you read and understood the terms.

[annoyedyep]

Got another letter today.

I'm getting concerned that I'm going to have to go to court if I don't pay up within 14 days?

Should I dispute or raise my points with BW Legal or someone else?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

It reads like a threatogram to me and the mythical £160 is very familiar from other people's letters. I expect the guys will be along later with more advice for you.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

Images removed pdf only please

 

as post 14

 

 

[Mrs O'Frog]

Do nothing. Wait for the LBA as previously instructed.

 

"we will seek Our Client's instructions to commence legal proceedings against you in the County Court upon being served with a Letter of Claim pursuant to the Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims as contained within the Civil Procedure Rules"

 

Ignoring the random capital letters, surely you can understand what they are saying here? They don't have instructions to commence legal proceedings (or they wouldn't be "seeking" them). If they are going to take you to court they will send you the "Letter of Claim" first as they are supposed to.

[ericsbrother]

it translates as "we hope that our client pays us some more money to turn nasty because you arent feeding the unicorns"