Claim form ebay user

[Wisey]

Hello. 

Il try keep this as short as possible.  

 

My aunt purchased an item on ebay. 

It didnt show so started a claim for a refund. 

She won her money back for the item to arrive!

 

Seller has been a pest and has been houding her for the money back which she has absolutely no issues paying. She has been trying to return the money for a week and the seller is being less the cooperative.  

 

She hasnt been able to reach paypal because of staffing levels. 

Several messages later on ebay albeit not nice ones, she has receieved a court claim form. 

 

The seller has NOT send a letter before claim and has just jumped straight to a small claims court with a sketchy particulars of claim, saying she is fraudulent etc. 

 

Now iv explained that she hasnt followed preaction protocols because she sent no letter before claim and my aunt has proof that she has tried to pay her back! 

 

What advice can you give to put into her defence. Its been sometime since iv done this. 

 

TiA

Edited May 21, 2020 by Wisey

[BankFodder]

Please will you tell us the value of this.

Have you got correspondence/evidence that you have tried to refund him?

Please can you upload the claim form in scanned PDF format.

 

[Wisey]

amount claimed is 66.99 ( 44.99 plus 25 court cost) i cant scan it as my aunt lives to far away iv only seen a photo of it. would that do ? and yes She has proof she has tried.

 

iv cropped out the personal detials this is the particulars iv converted to pdf

 

 

note that the seller did NOT send a letter before action

 

claim form full-converted.pdf

Edited May 21, 2020 by Wisey

[45002]

Wisey

 

I had a slimular issue a few years ago on Ebay, item didnt arrive, sender refunded, only for item to arrive a week later

 

Seller wanted paying and i use this on line method

 

http://tiny.cc/nhjipz

 

All you need is sellers Email address they use for paypal

 

Or you could ask the seller to send you a invoice via paypal on line

 

http://tiny.cc/oojipz

 

 

...

[Wisey]

Hi 45002

 

We have tried this they arnt co operative.  

 

The claim for still needs delt with or she will win by default.  

Just need pointers for a defence ; this much i know, she hasnt followed protocols because she didnt send a n LBC  

[BankFodder]

We will help to put together a defence for you – but I have to say that we give you free help with great goodwill and enthusiasm – but at the very least we expect that documents which are scanned up are presented so that they are properly focused, legible – and important things such as the date of issue when it comes to a claim form – are visible.

If you are trying to help somebody and they gave you that document I don't think that you would feel very happy about it.

Please can you put the claim form up again. Also, I'd like to see in scanned format one or two of the pieces of correspondence which you have sent to the claimant offering to pay the money back. Also would like to know the date of the claim.
You really need to engage with this thread for us to give you the best help

[Wisey]

Ok. Shes decided she just wants to.send her a cheque to pay it. That much we understand  but what about the claim form. 

 

What does she do with it once she has sent her a cheque.  How does she tell the court. 

 

I cannot Give you a scanned document because she lives 400 miles away.  She has no scanner and neither do i. If i had this facility i would give you this information.  

 

Bankfodder im trying.  Shes not tech savvy. She has another court battle thats custody related going on atm so she doesnt want the added stress. She now just wants to pay up. The claim for says how but doesnt say what to do with the claim form. She doesnt want to end up payng twice.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Wisey

[BankFodder]

The problem is that even if she just wants to pay up, because the claim has been issued and she will also be liable for their costs. She can certainly pay up – and then defend and frankly if you have the evidence that she tried to offer the money and that it was ignored, and that the correspondence or emails were properly addressed then the claimant can't possibly win.

If she simply wants to give up and pay the money and pay the costs then she said simply admit the claim and then send a cheque for the money plus the claim fee – in other words the entire claim to the claimant as soon as possible in order to avoid a CC J against her.

If she wanted to defend, then it is most unlikely that they would be hearing because it would be done on the paper. She would supply her defence which would say that she had made repeated attempts to contact the claimant at his correct address and that he had failed to respond and once again she is trying to contact him to repay the money. Then with the papers to the court, we would supply copies of the correspondence – and the court would then make its own judgement – and of course, if the correspondence all checks out then the court will find in her favour.

Even better, if she simply supplied the payment and the correspondence to the claimant – as well as defending the claim, it would be ridiculous to him not to withdraw the claim. Don't forget that if it goes to a hearing – even a paper consideration, then there will be an additional fee of about £80 which will have to be paid by whoever loses the case.

You still haven't given us the date of the claim. I'd like to see some of the correspondence offering the refund and you should check that she really has got the correct address. Without trying to make aspersions, if your aunt really does have difficulty these things, might it be possible that she has wrongly addressed a letter or an email so that it never arrived at its destination.

I think you need to check all these things out very carefully

[Wisey]

Issue date of claim 19th may 2020. 

 

 She just wants to send a check.  It just doesnt say how to notify the court that she has paid. She understands that she will include the court fee of £25. 

 

The claimed amount as i states above is £44.99.  Total £69.99

 

 All correspondence was via ebay so was impossible to be wrong.  The seller was replying. 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Then make sure that she has screenshots of all the messages. If she does know how to do that then get access to her account and get screenshots. Post some of them here.

She will have received a defence form.

That will invite her to admit or to defend.

She should say that she is defending and that she does not admit any part of the defendants claim.

 

Quote

I have been trying to contact the claimant using the eBay messaging system to pay him the refund that he has either ignored or not responded to my messages. I do not know why. I have evidence of the eBay messages which I have sent and I deny the claim and I certainly deny that I have attempted to act fraudulently or in any way dishonesty. I shall supply copies of all the sent messages to the court.
Also, the claimant has failed to follow any pre-action protocol and I have received no warning or notice of any intention to commence legal proceedings. This is all a surprise
I have now sent copies of the eBay messages directly to the claimant and I have asked him once again how he wants to be paid.

 

So I should get her to send that off quickly. Frankly if she is not very good at this then you should get access to it all and to the Moneyclaim account and do it for her. Once you do that, you will have complete access to the claim form and everything and you will be able to reproduce everything here properly presented.

After that, I would send a letter – recorded delivery to the claimant – repeating what you have put in my proposed defence above, together with copies of the eBay messages – and a request asking how the refund should be made. Make it clear that letter that it will be shown to the court as well as part of the evidence.

It really sounds to me as if you should take this over from your aunt and it should be easy simply by getting access to her eBay account and access to the Moneyclaim account in order to put in the defence.

If it was only issued on 19 May then you have lots of time – that on the basis of what you say, there is no need to hang around put in an acknowledgement. Simply put in a defence has suggested.

However, if I were you I would doublecheck the eBay account and the messages – because it sounds a bit strange that this claimant is prepared to issue a claim when you say that message has been sent and he has even been responding to them. It all needs close doublechecking before you start filing defences which might incur further costs if you are wrong

If you are right, then you should simply pay the money and not pay the court fee. Check the eBay account first.

[BankFodder]

I've put in a small amendment to the proposed defence above about the lack of pre-action protocol

By the way, where you in the country? And where is the claimant?

[Wisey]

Im in Northern Ireland.  Shes in engalnd.

 

Thanks bankfodder i shall repy this bak to.her. 

[BankFodder]

I didn't ask where you were. I want to know where the claimant is

[Wisey]

Sorry bankfodder (need more coffee) 

 

Both in England. 

[BankFodder]

So this becomes even more interesting because if you defend it and suggest that this needs to be done on a hearing, you have a cross jurisdictional issue and in principle the claimant would need to travel to your local court.

 

Please come back here when you tell us that you check the Moneyclaim Account and also the eBay account and you have got the information that we need.

 

However, I see see no reason why your aunt should cave into this and she should simply put in the denial and then the explanation as I said. Then it's up to the defendant if they want to take the risk of forking out for an allocation fee as well.

[Wisey]

Sorry i think wires have been crossed. 

 

Both claimant and my aunt live in England. Its just me who lives in NI. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16j8XcdnreWLbU71eik0PXL-1DkwOeijq/view?usp=drivesdk

 

 

This is a screenshot of ebay message. Proof she tried to pay. 

 

 

I dont want to waste your time bankfodder.  I think shes made her mind up and wants to just pay it. Shes just worried that if she sends a check  what to do with the claim form.  As she doesnt want her to het paid twice. Iv advised sending a check to her address to keep copies with a covering letter stating payment in full please discontinue the case. Despite the failings of process 

[BankFodder]

So now back to the original question – where does your aunt live and where does the claimant live?

[Wisey]

 

 

Both claimant and my aunt live in England. 

[BankFodder]

Yes you have already said that – but whereabouts in England they live? Does one live in Land's End and the other one live on the Scottish border? Does one live in Yorkshire and the other live in Devon?

I don't know how else to ask this question in a simple way to get a simple answer. You might as well tell me they both live on planet Earth

[Wisey]

My applogies.  

 

My aunt lives in Hertfordshire  and the claimant lives in Durham. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Wisey

[AndyOrch]

If you wish to pay it and settle the claim simply complete form N9A and attach your cheque. ( contained within the response pack)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n9a-form-of-admission-specified-amount

[BankFodder]

Thank you. But as I've already suggested, because you aren't is the defendant, if there is a hearing rather than the case being done on the papers the claimant will be obliged to travel all the way to Herefordshire. Of course if the claimant wins then they will be able to recover their reasonable costs of travel – but it still poses a big logistical problem for them.

Presumably the claimant has provided an address for service of documents.

I understand very well that your aren't really just wants to get rid of the problem – but it sticks in my craw to find somebody being pushed around like this when it doesn't seem to be her fault.

If you have got an address for service then I would suggest that you write a letter and send it by guaranteed special delivery.

 

Quote

Dear X X X

If you look at the messages which I have sent you on eBay, you will see that I have been trying very hard to pay you back the money after I eventually received the parcel. Instead of dealing with this and giving me the information I needed to pay the money through PayPal, you have simply given bland responses and not addressed my questions.

Now you have issued a claim.

I'm enclosing a cheque for £X X X which is the money that I owe you – but I will not be paying you any claim fees and I shall be putting in a defence in which I deny all liability. I have got the eBay correspondence as evidence – and for your information I'm enclosing a copy of it with this letter and with this cheque.

I really don't understand why you haven't communicated with me and simply given me the information I needed in order to pay you the money instead of causing trouble.

I shall be providing all of the eBay correspondence and a copy of this letter to the court if you decide to push this forward.

It's up to you

Yours sincerely

 

 

Check this and make sure that it is completely correct. Don't send the claim fee.

Then file the defence:

 

Quote

The claim is denied. I have been trying very hard to obtain the claimant's details for payment of the money and he has declined to engage with me. I have evidence of the correspondence using the eBay messaging system.
I have only finally received his postal address because it is included on the claim form and I have now immediately sent him a cheque for the amount owed and which I have been trying to pay him for some time.

There has been no attempt to be dishonest and I don't understand why the claimant did not simply let me have his details for payment. Also, the claimant has not given me any notice of the claim or applied the pre-action protocol.

 

[BankFodder]

6 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

If you wish to pay it and settle the claim simply complete form N9A and attach your cheque. ( contained within the response pack)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n9a-form-of-admission-specified-amount

 

Yes but that then requires payment of the claim fee – and I don't think that the claim fee should be paid. I think it should be fully defended.

No engagement with the correspondence.

No pre-action protocol

no provision of any details by which payment can be made

just a claim form.

Sorry but it's a big No-No for me.

[Wisey]

i fully agree with you. carries a thorn in my side also.  il get on the phone to her now. 

[AndyOrch]

5 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

 

Yes but that then requires payment of the claim fee – and I don't think that the claim fee should be paid. I think it should be fully defended.

No engagement with the correspondence.

No pre-action protocol

no provision of any details by which payment can be made

just to claim form.

Sorry but it's a big No-No for me.

 

Fully agree.....simply posting the process should the User wish to settle the matter......but you shouldn't be paying for something never received.