my Leasehold/Freehold property and it's issues.

[HP Mum]

Just wondered if anyone has any input on whether a mortgagee-in-possession is allowed to stop advertising the property asset for sale and instead send builders in to rip everything out? 

I thought they had an obligation to market and sell?  And could only do repairs/ maintenance? 

I didn't think they could completely renovate?

Any thoughts?

[unclebulgaria67]

Think you need advice from someone qualified in dealing with these situations. 

 

What would be the point in challenging bankruptcy?   

 

There will be a debt written off through the bankruptcy and save an ongoing saga.

 

Of course they can renovate to improve/protect their asset, whether it is maintenance or to be able to sell or rent out.

 

[HP Mum]

Thanks uncleB. 

 

I have quite a few valid challenges which would prevent bankruptcy / return to original ownership.

 

Yes I am trying to sort legal help.  It's hard with limited financial resources.  Hence why I'm trying to create own defence.

 

I'm not sure I understand how they are legally allowed to completely gut a building whilst - I thought - under a legal obligation to sell?   

They have refused to sell whilst also accruing interest and applying costs over a very long time. It's as if they deliberately racked up interest and costs to create a shortfall and grab the property via bankruptcy.

The property was in good condition. Although squatters did get in.

Is it a viable legal opportunity for them - without bankruptcy - to retain the property and rent it whilst simultaneously still charging the mortgagor interest?

 

[unclebulgaria67]

How much do you owe in arrears on the mortgage including interest ?

 

Why don't you look into challenging possession, offering a lump sum, plus regular monthly amounts covering both normal mortgage repayment and an amount towards arrears ?  Obtain legal advice about this.  Can Shelter Housing charity assist you ?

 

Seems to me that if you are looking at a return of ownership, then you need to think how financially this will be achieved.  

[HP Mum]

Thanks uncleB

 

The lender won't disclose any financial info to me. I asked via sar and they have spent a year failing to tell me anything.

 

The interest these people charged is huge.  They have faffed around deliberately not selling and the interest has just racked up.  I don't know the figure now as they won't tell me.  Certainly most people would jump off a bridge at the level.

 

I hear what you say though.  And yes I have an idea on challenges and a financial solution.

 

I have been reading a lot.

As an example Shelter legal site says the lender "must take proper care of the property, for example by dealing with essential or emergency repairs, such as a leaking pipe. It may also undertake basic maintenance".  This does not imply major works is ok?

I haven't found any site that says a lender can gut the property....

 

Shelter also says "When the lender sells the property, it has an equitable duty to take reasonable care to obtain the best price reasonably obtainable.". 

 

And "Where there is already a shortfall, the lender should not delay the sale if this would result in an increase in the mortgage debt and a worse financial position for the borrower".

 

I don't want to give up 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you need to get them into Court challenging possession and that should enable Court to look into the issues you raise. But I am no expert and would suggest you look for legal help via Shelter or other local avenues. 

[honeybee13]

I may have asked this before, do you have a local law centre?

 

https://www.lawcentres.org.uk/

 

HB

[HP Mum]

I have managed to find legal assistance / will be going through everything with them / on a pay if we win basis...

I just need to be as best informed as possible in advance / make sure I'm clear about my facts and position

 

These people are so crooked!

 

 

 

 

 

[HP Mum]

Its taking forever, but I am starting to get there with my challenges...

Will update again soon, but there's been some positive steps made.

[HP Mum]

Briefly - I managed to get their claim struck out as they made so many legal mistakes!

Complete waste of 18months - time & money.

This is still a work in progress.  Will update again soon...

Still a very stressful situation but this has relieved the stress quite a bit...

Edited January 31, 2021 by HP Mum

[HP Mum]

The B has officially now been discontinued in court.

Still a work in progress re many legal challenges - but the situation has turned around.... 

Have had some legal advice, which really helped/ is helping.

Will update when things have moved forward a bit more

[HP Mum]

Would just like a brief recap please on the timelines required before a creditor/ company can issue a notice of assignment and actually assign?

 

If a debt is due payable on a specific date is that the date the debt officially is in 'default'? 

 

Does the creditor have to put in writing the borrower is in default and simultaneously issue a 'default notice'?

 

How many days are required from the default day and/or the default notice to the creditor being able to issue  a 'notice of assignment'?

 

What happens if the correct procedure is not followed?

 

Many years ago I had an issue with a credit card company which issued a default notice and then issued a notice of assignment (to a dca) too early .  The assignment was deemed invalid and the credit card debt was written off.   Is it the same now?  I'm a bit out of touch with current legislation.

 

I have a situation where I received a 'letter before action' - it was dated the day after the default of a debt.   The letter stated the debt had already been assigned.  Later documents showed the debt had been assigned only 6 days after the default date.     No default notice had been given.  And no written notification of assignment to a different company had been given.   Would this make the assignment - and the debt - invalid?

 

This debt was assigned to a separate creditor/ company to which I already owed a smaller sum.   The creditor has since tried to reclaim the combined sums.

 

What are my chances of claiming the assignment was not done correctly and is invalid and thus reducing the amount owed?

 

I have the potential to be able to clear the smaller sum but not the combined sums.

 

 

[HP Mum]

This happened a few years ago.  Attempts to collect on the combined debts have so far been unsuccessful, but think the creditor may try again.  I was just going through all my old emails and papers and I noticed the discrepancies on the dates and assignment

[dx100uk]

you cant get a LOC a day after a NOA, not possible.

 

dx

 

 

[HP Mum]

what is a LOC ?

[dx100uk]

letter of claim or letter before action with a reply pack wanting I+E etc.

 

your story is not making sense and i think your are getting mixed up with notice of assignment and default notices.

 

rather than try and work this out yourself

tell us about the debt and the problem you think you have.

 

dx

 

 

 

[HP Mum]

I am confused.  But only because I don't think correct process was followed.

 

I received a lawyer's 'LBA' the day after a debt defaulted. The letter advised - almost as a passing irrelevant comment - that the debt had already been assigned to a different company.  And they were instructed to take further legal action on the combined debts. 

 

The creditor had given no notification that they were assigning the debt, nor did they ever send a notice of assignment. 

 

Documents received a few months later showed they had actually assigned the debt only 6 days after the debt defaulted.

 

I am confused with the process. 

I thought that a debt had to be in default for a creditor to issue a notice of assignment? 

 

And to be in default for a certain amount of days before issuing the NoA?   

 

I got neither default notice or a notice of assignment. 

The creditor just assigned the debt to another company. 

Is this possible?

Edited March 8, 2022 by dx100uk
Format

[dx100uk]

You are getting confused.com

 

When and original creditor sells a debt, it's typically defaulted (by the issuance of a default notice under section 87 of the CCA) on or before the date of sale.

 

Notice of assignment from the debt buyer and the original creditor then should follow. The debt buyer may issue both NOA'S inc using the original creditors logos/address details. The OC does not have to send a NOA themselves.

 

A letter before action is just a meaningless twaddle letter if it does not mention the pre action protocol , have a reply pack, and give you 30days to reply and can be ignored

 

for letter of claim examples and what to do click it

[HP Mum]

Hello

I'm just looking at an old debt to check if due process was followed correctly.

 

A  few years ago a large financial institution gave me 2 short-term loans with two separate registered entities/companies [lets call them Company A and Company B] under its parent hat.    The loan in Company A was considerably larger than the loan in Company B.   Both loans had the same repayment date..   

I didn't repay either of the loans by the due date.   

 

Fast forward many months and a legal claim arrived from lawyers acting for only one of the companies, Company B.

When I looked through the papers I noted  that the lawyers had 'consolidated the two loans together as one big loan.    They had assigned the larger value loan in Company A into the lower value loan in Company B.     But they had never notified me.  Never sent any notice of Default on either loan.  Never sent me a Notice of Assignment.   I had no idea at all that this had happened.

 

Their legal papers showed that:

a) they considered one loan to be in Default on the payment due date -  e.g: 29.04.

b) they allegedly had made a Demand on the 30.04

c) they had assigned the larger value loan in Company A into Company B - by way of a deed of Assignment on 05.05.

d) they were now claiming one huge consolidated loan all in Company B.

 

My memory is a bit hazy.  Aren't companies supposed to wait a certain amount of days from Default to Demand to Notice of Assignment?   

In this instance they allegedly assigned one debt into a completely different entity in just  5 days.

Can they do that?   Or did they effectively invalidate the loan that was in Company A ??

 

[honeybee13]

Do you have an existing thread about this, HPM?

 

HB

[HP Mum]

Not that I am aware of HB?   This is the first time, I think and hope, that I am addressing this issue.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by HP Mum

[dx100uk]

When did you take out each loan?

when did you last pay each?

 

If the loans have been merged..... at or by witness statement stage they will have to produce all paperwork. Be that notice of assignment, signed agreement, default notice for each loan to successfully litigate and enforce.

 

Dx

[HP Mum]

I need some urgent help please.

 

Been embroiled in very complicated litigation for several years. 

Had legal help but recently been let down so am trying to handle alone before I get fresh legal (Pro bono) help. 

But am under time pressure.

 

Right now a claimant made an application for summary judgment against me. 

Old lawyer was notified but took 5 days to forward it to me. 

I immediately drafted a letter to judge - few pages asking for time to find new lawyer and the precise reasons why their application should be be struck out.   

But court email replied they wouldn't forward to judge unless letter was attached to a form with fee payment made. 

 

Firstly - I'm not sure what form to use?  I kinda figured a n244 ?  But am really not sure as I just wanted my letter to go to the judge, not to the Claimant.  And the n244 says I have to "serve" my application on everyone.   It took me hours to figure out how to edit a PDF. I had to download a free trial.   I'm trying to do that now.  But am confused with all the form questions. And also if this is really the form to use?  Is there a way to just write to the judge?    So I've spent half the day trying to get head round this.  And trying to decide if I have to send letter to Claimant too then I'll have to slightly re-word my letter.

Do I have to send a n244 application/ letter to the otherside simultaneously as to court?

 

Secondly, whilst I've been trying to figure out the form - the old lawyer just forwarded a 2nd doc from court that says judge already read claimant application yesterday and set a hearing date in a few weeks time.

 

What I want is to

- apply for summary judgment to be set aside

- any future hearings be heard in my local court

- ask for minimum 4w time extension to enable me to sort fresh legal help

- but equally ask for the Claimant's claim be "stayed" until an associated claim is settled.

Is this all possible?

 

This is where it gets complicated.

The other associated claim is really serious and could adversely affect the Claimant. But they are a huge well funded institution and are abusing the system against me.   

 

They are deliberately rushing forwards the claim against me personally, giving me no time to prepare, also with a court 00s of miles away.  Whilst dragging out the serious claim against them - via court time extensions and last minute delays.

 

They are trying to manipulate the system so that both claims need my simultaneous attention or even simultaneous court attendance in different locations. It's both overwhelming and physically/ mentally impossible to cope.

 

As an example - they already delayed the serious claim a lot - 2 time extensions/ by 2 months - so the judge refused any more.  Then a couple hours before a joint doc submission deadline they suddenly asked for another extension and made an application to the court.  They did this deliberately.  They want to delay evidence in this claim until after the judgment hearing.   

 

So I want to tell the judge this - and get the summary judgment against me stayed until the serious claim is settled.   Is that do-able?

 

Also - I need to make sure old lawyer is not sent legal stuff anymore.  Doing more damage than good by being on the record.  How do I do that?  Don't really want to be litigant in person. But have no choice til I get fresh legal help

 

 

[dx100uk]

sorry i must be frank and blunt and express historic frustration by whole site team going back years that you never name names, always talk around corners and never post up court documents, to enable anyone to actually be able to fully understand your situation and to give the urgent help you NEED .

 

i will guess, yes, it would be via an N244, but, no, you must also serve it on the claimant. we and a judge cannot ever expect to understand your complex  predicament's by playing secret squirrel 

 

dx

 

[HP Mum]

Sorry dx. I don't mean to hide stuff

It's just been such a unique situation that to discuss openly on a public forum may be detrimental.  I've had a court situation before when the opposition confronted me with my posts