Crampton & Moore - Delivery damaged door frame by resting fridge freezer on it

[chaoticj]

Hi,

 

I bought a large fridge freezer online and the delivery company damaged the door frame by resting the appliance on it then pushing inside.

 

The company I bought it off told me to claim from the delivery company. 

I said I wanted them to sort it out between themselves

insisted the procedure was for me to claim via the delivery company.

 

I sent all the information and pictures and they have rejected the claim.

The crew deny any damage and say they lifted it inside my property (this is a lie).

The damage isn't huge - small marks/gouges with the same spacing between them as the appliance packaging.

 

I am invited to appeal - which I will do,

but it seems they will only accept further photographic evidence,

CCTV and/or witness statement(s) from someone else in the property who was present.

 

My wife was asleep when they delivered first thing and suffering from anxiety doesn't want to sign anything,

I don't have CCTV,

I do have a picture which shows the door undamaged but it's not a close up and it's from some time ago.

 

I feel the delivery company will reject the appeal.

I did see the crew take picture(s) so I can request these via a SAR.

 

Do I have any recourse with the company I bought it off?

Is there any further steps I can take should the appeal be rejected?

 

I have no idea if the damage can be repaired or whether it would be a whole new door frame as I haven't been asked to get any quotes.

 

Also would it be worth mentioning in the appeal that the fridge freezer had some damage for which the company I bought it off issued a partial refund?

Clearly the delivery company didn't take reasonable care with either it or my property..

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[dx100uk]

who delivered it?

 

dx

 

[chaoticj]

Hi dx,

It was ArrowXL.

Thanks.

[BankFodder]

You haven't told us who you bought the fridge freezer from. This is very important. Did you buy from them and they selected the delivery company – or were these two separate actions and you organise the delivery?
If it was the delivery company which sold you the fridge freezer and also organise the delivery then the entire responsibility and liability falls on their shoulders and this makes life much easier.

You haven't told us when this happened. Please will you give us a timeline. Have you taken photographs et cetera. I hope you have the whole thing properly documented.

If you are doing anything on the telephone then you should record your calls. Read our customer services guide. This is the important

[chaoticj]

Hi BankFodder

 

I bought the fridge freezer mid February this year off Crampton & Moore who arranged delivery via Arrow XL.

 

I informed Crampton & Moore of the property damage the same day and it's taken until now for Arrow XL to 'investigate' and reject my claim.

 

Almost all communication has been via email so it's in writing. I have pictures of the damage which has been left as it is since.

 

Many thanks, chaoticj

[BankFodder]

Is this the company https://www.cramptonandmoore.co.uk/ ?

 

I hope you won't mind me saying that you've been here since 2007 I don't understand why you allowed yourself to be strung along since mid-February – that's nearly 3 months.

You had a right to return the fridge freezer immediately if it suffered damage and also get compensation for the damage to the fridge freezer and or to the door.

I suggest that you start to assert yourself and take control unless you want to be led around by the nose for a lot longer and get nothing.

 

When you talk about damage to the door frame, are you talking about your front door as they tried to push the fridge freezer in? Or are you talking about damage to the door of the fridge freezer? Have you got any photographs? Have you had an estimate for the repair to the doorframe? You will need this.

I don't understand why you pay any attention to what the company says and their so-called "right to appeal" which they have magnanimously offered you.

I think it's about time that you took this in hand. We can help you – but I think you're going to have to change your approach quite radically.

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

I think the OP's main complaint is not about damage to the fridge-freezer but to one of the door frames in their house.

 

I'm sure if the carrier damaged the fridge-freezer during delivery, then the seller (assuming they arranged delivery) would be liable for the freezer.

 

But what would happen (a bit like here?) if the carrier negligently damaged the OP's car while parking the delivery van.  Is that anything to do with the seller (it wouldn't have happened but for them arranging delivery of the freezer) or is it solely the carrier's responsibility?

 

Just wondering out loud how far the seller's responsibility extends beyond delivering a satisfactory working freezer...

[BankFodder]

I think that the sellers responsibility extends to delivering a satisfactory working freezer satisfactorily

[Manxman in exile]

Yeah I suppose so.  I can imagine couriers causing all kinds of expensive damage...

[slick132]

Hi Chaotic,

 

You say damage was caused to your door frame - assuming it's wooden, it can be repainted or revarnished after repair. As BF said above, get 2 quotes to repair the frame.

 

You negotiated a discount from the seller for the damage to the fridge itself so that issue is now closed although it's may be helpful in asserting that damage was caused to the fridge when it came into contact with the door frame.

 

Get the door frame repair quotes if you're unable to sort the damage yourself, or through somone you know.

[chaoticj]

Hi,

 

Sorry for late response, dad ended up in hospital, had to help care for him when he came out and he recently passed away.

 

The damage to fridge freezer itself was resolved satisfactorily by the retailer Crampton and Moore but they said for the other damage I'd need to claim with the delivery company Arrow XL, despite me saying a few times I wanted to go through Crampton and Moore not Arrow XL.

 

The damage to door frame is the outer edge of the UPVC back door, Arrow XL rested the fridge freezer on top of it then pushed it inside.

 

I've got pictures of the damage but haven't got any quote for repair as Arrow XL said that would only need to be done if they accepted the property damage claim. I'm not sure how it would be repaired as the plastic is gouged.

 

Many thanks.

[BankFodder]

You could either go against the delivery company or you could go against the supplier of the fridge.

Depends on which you feel is the easiest target. Arrow are in Wigan. Crampton and Moore are in Sheffield. They are both liable to you in contract. Crampton and Moore are liable to you because they are your direct contracting party.
If you attacked Arrow, their first response is very likely to be that you don't have any contract with them and that your contract is with Crampton. However, you would be claiming third party rights on the basis of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 which gives you all the rights of a direct contracting party as long as you are clearly intended to be a beneficiary of the contract and you aren't expressly excluded by the contract between Arrow and Crampton and Moore.

I think you will have to take your choice. Personally I would go for Crampton because I don't think they shouldn't be let off the hook and I think they should take responsibility for the delivery agents – so to a great extent it's a matter of principle for me.
If you go after Arrow, then Crampton will get off Scott free. If you go after Crampton, then Crampton will go after Arrow – which means that they will both be held to account – but Crampton will do your dirty work for you.

Have you had quotations for the repair to the doorframe et cetera?

Whoever you decide to go for, I think you will have to be very methodical. If you decide to go for Crampton then I think that you should write to them and tell them that you reject their position that your issue is with their delivery agent Arrow. Tell them that you consider that you are contractually entitled to a delivery carried out properly and that this did not happen. That you expect reimbursement of all damage from them and that is then up to them to claim from Arrow with whom they have a contract.

I would then put Crampton/arrow on notice that you will be getting independent assessments and quotations for repairs to the damage caused by their agent and that if these assessments and quotations cost you any money then you will be adding this to the value of the claim that you eventually bring against them. You should invite Crampton/Arrow to visit your property and to inspect the damage for themselves and that they can do this by appointment with you at any reasonable time.

Tell them that you will keep them informed at all times including giving them advance notice of visits by your own inspectors and that you will provide them with all copies of assessments and quotations and that if they will not step up and shoulder their proper responsibility – you will have no hesitation in suing them in the County Court.

If you decide to proceed against arrow then you should send them a similar message – suitably amended.

Then you should set about organising the quotations. As soon as you have made appointments, you should send Crampton (or Arrow) and email telling them the date and time and identity of the inspector and the cost which has been talk to you. Invite them to make any objections but tell them that they are notice. You probably need to send in this email seven days before the date of the visit by the inspector.

Then once you get an assessment and a quotation, send a copy of it immediately to whoever you are dealing with so that they are fully informed.

The idea is to make sure that you are completely transparent – that you have done your utmost to involve Crampton at every step of the way and that you have given them every opportunity to object – or to carry out their own verification.

In that way, if the matter goes to court, you will be able to show to a judge that you've acted reasonably and in utmost good faith at every step of the way and that Crampton/arrow were fully aware of everything you are doing and had an opportunity to comment.

That lot for starters

[Manxman in exile]

I'm probably being dim, but wouldn't it be more straightforward to proceed against the courier who actually directly caused the damage rather than the retailer?  Isn't this really a question of negligence and tortious liability on the part of the courier rather than anything to do with a contractual relationship (to which the OP may or may not be a party)?

 

The OP is saying that the damage to the freezer has been resolved with the supplier, and I'm really struggling to see how any liability the supplier may have extends to damage caused to the OP's property by a third party courier.

 

The damage is presumably blatantly obvious (and quite expensive if a PVC frame) and clearly caused by the third party, not the retailer.  I'm not saying that claiming against the retailer is not the way to go - I'm just saying that in the OP's shoes I'd be claiming from the courier, not the retailer.

 

(The only practical advantage I see of claiming against the retailer is that they'd be more likely not to use this courier again - but I don't think a third-party claim against the retailer is as clear cut as claiming off the courier).

[slick132]

On a practical note, if you ask any UPVC door/window supplier about the cost to repair, they are more likely to say that's not possible and will quote to replace the door and frame. Depending on the door size and adjacent windows, the cost could be £1,000+ which may be disproportionate, depending on the damage caused.

 

However, if you search the Web for UPVCdoor frame repairs, you will find specialists that should be able to quote to repair. I would expect the price of this to far lower.

[BankFodder]

10 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

I'm probably being dim, but wouldn't it be more straightforward to proceed against the courier who actually directly caused the damage rather than the retailer?  Isn't this really a question of negligence and tortious liability on the part of the courier rather than anything to do with a contractual relationship (to which the OP may or may not be a party)?

 

The OP is saying that the damage to the freezer has been resolved with the supplier, and I'm really struggling to see how any liability the supplier may have extends to damage caused to the OP's property by a third party courier.

 

The damage is presumably blatantly obvious (and quite expensive if a PVC frame) and clearly caused by the third party, not the retailer.  I'm not saying that claiming against the retailer is not the way to go - I'm just saying that in the OP's shoes I'd be claiming from the courier, not the retailer.

 

(The only practical advantage I see of claiming against the retailer is that they'd be more likely not to use this courier again - but I don't think a third-party claim against the retailer is as clear cut as claiming off the courier).

Because of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act the matter is purely contractual whoever you proceed against. Proceeding in tort is far more difficult than contract. To a great extent contractual liabilities pretty strict whereas tortious liability is much more difficult to establish.
Also, as I have suggested – going against Crampton will put them in conflict with Arrow – no bad thing.

Crampton, telling the OP to go against Arrow – is a bit like Currys or PC World telling the customer to complain to Lenovo. It simply passing the buck. Much better that you keep the dispute with the retailer and then it's up to them to complain to their service provider or their own supplier. That leads to an overall improvement in standards by both parties. If you simply proceed against Arrow, then Crampton will never care whether their delivery agents cause damage or not because it won't be the responsibility.

 

 

7 minutes ago, slick132 said:

On a practical note, if you ask any UPVC door/window supplier about the cost to repair, they are more likely to say that's not possible and will quote to replace the door and frame. Depending on the door size and adjacent windows, the cost could be £1,000+ which may be disproportionate, depending on the damage caused.

 

However, if you search the Web for UPVCdoor frame repairs, you will find specialists that should be able to quote to repair. I would expect the price of this to far lower.

 

If it is not possible to repair the frame, then Crampton will simply have to cough up for a replacement – and if they refuse then a court will force the issue. Then it's up to Crampton to take it up with Arrow.