Smart Parking anpr pcn - Llanberis, Snowdonia - BUT I PAID! - Is this appeal text sufficient?

[dkl_uk]

Here's what I've written so far. I have taken care not to suggest I was the driver, or even there on the day.

Quote

 

Upon entering the car park, a passenger directly attended the payment machine. There was a queue for the machine and each person in the queue took several minutes to complete their transaction.

 

The passenger tried, several times, to pay for an all day ticket, and was met with an error message on the screen at least three times that the payment was not authorised. When they were finally able to obtain a ticket, the machine would not allow the entrance of the full registration - the letter keys were not working, but the numeric keys were. Therefore, a ticket was obtained for a full-day stay with the registration of "68", which is clearly a portion of the registration plate of this vehicle.

 

The passenger has been charged for this transaction which you will see in the attached image.

 

Due to the significant issues the passenger had in obtaining a ticket, the car was taken to park elsewhere because:
1) It was not clear the transaction was valid.
2) The ticket machine reported issues with payment several times.
3) The obtained ticket did not confirm the vehicle registration, due to a mechanical/technical issue with the machine.

 

Since a ticket was obtained for a full day's stay, but the service could not be utilised after significant issues with the parking machine, are you going to refund the £8.00 transaction?

 

Regarding your Notice to Keeper, as you have fallen outside of the 14 day notice period (event captured 21/03, NTK sent 06/04) I would also recommend you cease all attempts at obtaining this (now illegal) charge.

 

 

I have picture proof of a snapshot of the £8.00 day fee being taken from the passenger's bank account. The total time in the car park was about 45 minutes, after all of the messing about with the broken machine and figuring out if the ticket would be valid.

 

It's a lease car so they sent the original NTK to ALD, who kindly let me know I should expect a letter (which arrived this morning). I've been waiting for it for a week or two because (as per the above) the NTK was sent too late - although I understand unless they refer to POFA, that doesn't matter?

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

I assume you haven't posted about this before?

 

What is the letter you've received please?

 

HB

[dx100uk]

Who said appeal??

We don't...

 

DX

[brassnecked]

Could you give the details asked for in this sticky please, then we can advise a course of action.  As DX says above we don't always recommend an appeal for various reasons.

 

[dkl_uk]

Sorry, completely skipped the important bit didn't I.

 

1 Date of the infringement 21/03/2020

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 06/04/2020

 

3 Date received ALD (lease owners) received 09/04 and advised PCN co to write to me. NTK received @ my address 30/04/2020

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No (probably because it was outside of the 14 day NTK period)

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? ANPR entry and exit

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not yet

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Smart Parking

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Llanberis, Snowdonia

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA

 

 

And again to clarify, I have visual proof of payment of a ticket - not the ticket which was discarded as useless, but a bank transaction screenshot to this company.

 

[dx100uk]

images/posts removed /topic title updated
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please do not post jpg picture images directly to a post
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read upload and redact in jpg then convert using on of the listed websites there to convert to one multipage pdf only

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that way only logged-in,registered and approved caggers are the only ones that can download and see them
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else anyone can see them caggers or not.

dx

[dx100uk]

NTK is out of time anyway

ignore everyone until/unless you get a letter of claim

 

dx

 

[dkl_uk]

Alright, thanks. I will await an LBC then.

 

The fact they've continued to pursue after ALD sent them packing suggests I may well see one.

 

I'm genuinely interested as to whether anyone else had the same issue as us and whether they have blanket PCN'd a load of people for their machines being knackered that day.

 

Here's the PDF, redacted etc.

2020-04-30 14.58.06_.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

What a pain

-you tried to do the right thing by leaving as you were unsure if you had been correctly recorded and still they get you.

You will find that despite their name a flock of budgerigars are smarter so nothing to worry about. 

They won't give up writing to you with ever increasing amounts and threats.

 

Then you get debt collectors and solicitors after that until finally they get it through thier thick skulls that you are not going to pay.

Then they try to be MR Nice Guy and offer you a lower gigure to pay.

After that they either give up or threaten you with Court.

 

So prepare for an avalnche of paper from them all. Sadly the paper nor what they have will have written is fit for use as toilet paper.

Do not lose the bank receipt and go about your life not worrying about their threats or demands.

[dkl_uk]

Is it really going to help by ignoring them? I know there's a possibility of them just carrying on and sending it to solicitors, but by ignoring them am I not going to put myself at risk by not complying with the dispute process?

 

I feel like I have more than enough evidence to show the ticket was purchased and reasons why their systems were knackered. I do think I'd be more comfortable disputing the ticket with what I've already written, plus anything else of relevance such as the actual codes of conduct not followed if any?

[honeybee13]

If I tell you that most if not all private parking companies are ex-clampers, would you think it's worth arguing with them?

 

We've seen that it hardly ever works and appealing can make things harder for you. There isn't a dispute process, they don't want appeals and refuse 99% of them.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

God no!

Do you not realise the important of their ntk being outside of 14days

If not just get reading any smary parking threads

Use our search top right.

 

'not so' smart parking never get anything right..

 

Dx

[lookinforinfo]

Yes it does help to ignore them.

These parking companies are out and out crooks. You have seen that yourself.

 

You paid for a whole day; their machinery was not up to standard;

 

you left and went to park elsewhere despite wasting time trying to get them to recognise the payment

and despite overpaying they are insisting that you pay £100.

 

You know that the amount was paid and either they know that you paid because they would have received an extra £8 payment or their system is so bad that they don't even know if you did pay. 

 

If they know you paid it shows exactly what a bunch of crooks they are so what makes you think that they will agree to drop their ludocrous claim.

 

If they don't know you paid, which I very much doubt, then you have no chance of getting your money back or them dropping your claim.

 

In addition when you write in arguing why they are wrong, they engineer their arguments against cancelling your charge and the longer you argue, the more they think you are reluctant to go to Court and you  will eventually pay up.

You can argue until the cows come home and they will not change their stance.

 

You paid,

you owe them nothing. It is not your problem that their machines do not work properly and no Court would find in their favour.

 

Please ignore them.

We have seen that over the past seven years or so that keeper silence is the best option.

 

[ericsbrother]

I once met Mr A V Roe of AVRO aircraft fame.

He was on a train and telling the story of visiting a client and charging them £1000 for his advice, which was to hit the engine in a certain place with a hammer.

They said £1000 to be told to hit it with a hammer?

He responded that it was knowing where to hit it with the hammer that made the advice so expensive.

 

Im sure he told everyone the same story but the point is knowing when and how to react is the critical thing so learn about your enemy first

[dkl_uk]

Hello

 

Further to the above, I've had two more letters. This is the most recent, from the DCA telling me they're going to tell Smart Parking to refer the case to solicitors. I'm assuming this is the stage before the LBA, and that I should still be holding out?

 

To confirm, we have already seen that the original letter (sent to the lease co I lease the car from) was sent outside of the 14 day window, and that in fact payment WAS made, but the machine was broken and only the '68' part of my full reg was registered against the ticket (hence their ANPR not recognising my car).

Debt Recovery Plus.pdf

[brassnecked]

Another ThreatOgram ifs buts maybe's.

[Homer67]

As the NTK was out of time they cannot pursue the Keeper (V5 registered keeper) only the driver.

 

As you have not appealed and accidentally revealed yourself as the driver and lost your protection under POFA, they cannot do anything but send threatening letters.

 

They may send you a Letter Before Action eventually but you will respond with a snotty letter saying the NTK was out of time so they cannot pursue you as the keeper and you are not obliged to tell them who was driving.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Homer67
typo

[ericsbrother]

and you have a valid reason to sue them for breach of the GDPR and possibly harassment

[dkl_uk]

21 hours ago, Homer67 said:

As the NTK was out of time they cannot pursue the Keeper (V5 registered keeper) only the driver.

 

As you have not appealed and accidentally revealed yourself as the driver and lost your protection under POFA, they cannot do anything but send threatening letters.

 

They may send you a Letter Before Action eventually but you will respond with a snotty letter saying the NTK was out of time so they cannot pursue you as the keeper and you are not obliged to tell them who was driving.

 

Yes that's what I was expecting, so thanks for confirming that for me. As soon as the LBA comes through I'll just put those two points down and tell them to never contact me again.

 

1 hour ago, ericsbrother said:

and you have a valid reason to sue them for breach of the GDPR and possibly harassment

 

May I ask please how they've breached GDPR? Is it the aspect of contact without valid reasoning?

[lookinforinfo]

You paid so there was no reason for them to get your details from DVLA.

[dkl_uk]

 

Fair enough.

Just playing devil's advocate on my own post though,

the ticket machine asks for the reg details, but the buttons didn't work and only the first two numbers showed up on the ticket.

Their ANPR camera would have simply seen the car enter and exit without any record of the car being paid for. 

 

Good thing I've got the bank transaction on using transaction reference to back up the fact it was paid though. 

[lookinforinfo]

I hear what you say.

 

On the other hand they must know how many cars entered and left and how much money that came in .

So they must know that a payment had been paid where they couldn't match the car to.

 

As they managed to obtain the first two figures on the payment from the driver of your car you would have thought they might  have been able to work it out.