KBT/Armtrac/BW Windscreen PCN Claimform - blown away ticket- Lusty Glaze car park, Newquay - Advice Please

[Willow2020]

Hi, 

 

I would be very grateful for some advice please !

 

I received a windcreen ticket PCN back in January.

I purchased a ticket and placed this on the dashboard of my car in full display.

 

When I returned I had received a windscreen ticket Notice to Driver

- the day we parked it was when Storm Brendan was starting to hit Cornwall and the car park is on a cliff next to the beach

- what had happened is the strong winds blew the ticket off the dashboard and elsewhere in the car which I hadn't realised.

The ticket was valid during our stay and didn't not run out of time but when we got back to the car a PCN was on the windscreen.

 

As I had a valid ticket I stupidly got in touch with Armtrac  (I hadn't found this website or advice on it prior to getting in contact with them) and thought common sense would prevail and they would cancel the PCN, however they did not and now they have passed it onto BW Legal. 

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement? 12/1/2020

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] I did not appeal to the parking company as I had a valid ticket and told them I would not appeal it as there is nothing to appeal. They sent back photo picture of the car with no ticket displayed, this was due to the very windy weather and the ticket blowing off the dash board). I have attached their appeal pdf sent to me.

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

has there been a response?

They have now passed this on to BW Legal to collect their invoice
 

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

They sent a letter on the 4/2/2020 stating it is a final letter before debt recovery, I presume this is the NTK however it was sent before 29 days and also missing requirements set out in the POFA (letter is attaached).
 

what date is on it

04/02/2020
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Armtrac provided photo evidence via email on the 15th of January
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ( PoFA) [Y/N?]

No
 

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

I did not appeal and then BW Legal got in contact by sending a letter on the 17th of March
 

 

5 Who is the parking company?

KBT Cornwall Ltd T/as Armtrac Security Services
 

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

Lusty Glaze Car Park, Lusty Glaze Road, Newquay (Private Land)

 

Any advice and help is appreciated!
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Thank you for the information so far, we know that car park well.

 

When you wrote to Armtrac, did you indicate that you were the driver that day?

 

Best, HB

 

PS I've edited your thread title to show the car park.

 

I've had to remove your attachments to keep this anonymous for you. Please redact your name, address, reg plate number, ticket number and anything else that could identify and you repost them?

 

HB

[Willow2020]

Hi HB, 

 

Thank you for the welcome and reply to my message. In reply to your question when communicating with Armtrac and BW Legal I have never mentioned I was the driver, I have said I am the keeper of the car and I purchased the ticket. 
 

Also thank you for removing the PDF, I will rescan with certain details blocked out. 

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum Willow.

When you have read a few other  threads you will find a complete absence of common sense from any of the crooks who mismanage car parks.  You will find greed and avarice in abundance closely followed by lies and ignorance. Their only saving grace is that they are also extremely stupid and that is where we catch them out.

 

There is no need to pay their PCN as you have already paid so they have suffered no loss.

Do not waste time writing to them as they don't understand the concept that people do not need to pay twice.

They have lost in Court quite a few times but they think if they threaten enough and ramp up their charges, many people will pay.  So just ignore them.

 

They won't go away but  just relax knowing that they are wasting their time and money on you.

They will also set their unregulated debt collectors on you.

Don't worry about them they are possibly more venal and stupid than even Armtrac, hard though it may be to believe.

Just ignore them too.

 

They only write about twice-they have a very limited vocabulary and absolutely nothing to worry about.

They also use solicitors who know less about the Law than my 6 year old granddaughter-and she knows nothing about the Law but she's very cute.

 

In order to help us could you kindly post up both PCNs  and the correspondence with Armtrac and BW Legal please.

That will show up other things that they have done wrong should they not give up.

It is always useful to have more than one string to your bow.

[dx100uk]

until/unless BW send you a letter of claim or letter before action

you are safe to ignore everyone now.

 

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:3134625398&q=KBT Cornwall Ltd %2FArmtrac Security Services&oq=KBT Cornwall Ltd %2FArmtrac Security Services&gs_l=partner-generic.12...78623.78623.0.79819.1.1.0.0.0.0.151.151.0j1.1.0.csems%2Cnrl%3D13...0.0...2.34.partner-generic..1.0.0.A6l_FZ55ONI

[Willow2020]

Hi,

 

Thank you all for the responses, I have now attached the relevant info and communication with Armtrac and BW Legal

 

Emails_with_BW_Legal.pdf NTD_NTK._BW_Legal.pdf Email communication Armtrac.pdf

[dx100uk]

as post 5

 

 

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

as post 5 now

[lookinforinfo]

Hi Willow,

as you can see why we advise against writing to any of them since they are not interested in anything other than getting you to pay. Kind of rich for BW legal advising you to seek legal advice when they are trying to charge you an extra £60 for legal costs for which you are not liable as the keeper.  No wonder they lose so many cases for their clients when the intricacies of POFA are obviously beyond them. 

 

It doesn't look as if you have compromised yourself by writing to them

-just wasting your time since they are not going to backdown yet.

 

You did include the windscreen PCN but not the NTK.

It would help if you could kindly include that minus your name, reg no etc.

 

[Willow2020]

Hi lookinforinfo,

 

thank you for the message, what I have attached to the post is everything Armtrac sent me, I presumed the ‘Final demand’ letter from them was the NTK. I have attached the original NTD on the windscreen, the rest are letters sent to me by Armtrac and then B W Legal

[dx100uk]

windscreen ticket in in the PDF's but I can't see the Notice to keeper? 

[lookinforinfo]

I suspect that when you wrote and said that you were ther keeper and paid the ticket, they have taken it that you were also the driver so no  need to send a NTK. That does mean that if you were not the driver then their lack of the NTK means that as the keeper you are not liable for the debt as there has been no mention from them of POFA. 

[Willow2020]

Hi 

 

thanks for the reply, they haven’t sent me an NTK in the time frame allowed then, also at no point is it indicated I am the driver when communicating with them and BW. 
 

is there anything I need to do or just wait to see what they do next? 
 

many thanks

[lookinforinfo]

You have to understand that collectively Armtrac have the brain capacity of less than a single amoeba. So the concept say of even a husband and wife as an example where one is the keeper and the other the driver hasn't quite sunk in with them yet. Give them a couple of years at least and perhaps they will get it.

 

Just ignore them and their unregulated debt collectors and anyone else. But if you get a Letter before Claim then let us know . Just go on enjoying life in lockdown and forget them.

[ericsbrother]

You said you were the purchaser of the ticket which means that you were the one who read the terms and accepted the offer so they have the right person and the POFA doenst apply.

if you had kept your mouth shut you would be out of the woods by now but by engaging with them you have given them a half chance of collecting a payday.

look at council parking law and you will see that a blown away ticket is a breach of the parking laws and you have to pay the penalty charge.

however, this is not a penalty charge so  more staightforward contract law applies and basically you paid and that is enough to crystallise the contract and other silly terms like displaying the ticket is an adminstrative convenience for them rather than a necessity in law.

 

now you need to block their email and seta bounce back message as well if you can so they are forced to write to you with a proper letter. you need to read up more on private parking so you dotn drop yourslef in it any deeper before this reaches a conclusion

[Willow2020]

Hi,

 

Following on from the above posts I have now received a Letter of Claim from BW Legal stating I have to pay £160 before the 30th of October 2020 or it may increase to £240.63 with estimated court fees / solicitors fees.

 

Please could you advise on what I should do next as I don't  want to make any stupid mistakes.

 

Many thanks for your help.

[dx100uk]

you should have been using your time wisely and reading up

CAG is also self help

 

use our search top right 

or 

the enhanced google search box here too

 

BW snotty letter ericsbrother

 

you purchased a ticket tuff luck it blew away on them..

 

 

 

[Willow2020]

Hi dx100uk,

 

Thank you for the response, I filled in all the info when first getting a ticket - I have searched for BW snotty letter but cant seemed to find it.

 

BW have sent a reply form but do I fill this in or send my own letter?

I am sorry if I am being a bit useless just don't make any mistakes.

 

I have found your information regarding the reply form and how to fill this is (thank you for this).

Do I need to send a letter with this or wait for their reply?

 

Many thanks

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Can you show us the reply form please? If you mean BW Legal's reply form, I don't think we said to return this. Please don't send anything until we know what you're talking about.

 

In terms of the 'snotty letter', have a search on CAG for BW threads where they've sent a Letter Before Claim and see what people have said. Again, post it up here before you send it so we can make sure you don't drop yourself in it.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

something like post 22 here

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Willow2020]

Hi,

 

Thanks again for the response, I have printed of the reply form from dx100uk's post not the one sent from BW.

 

I have attached the form and added notes for sections Box D and Box I (I have printed my name and dated but nothing else). 

 

 

Reply Form .pdf

 

Sorry, the notes for Box D meant to say ' dispute the debt' and I have given evidence a of valid ticket to Armtrac and BW Legal.

[honeybee13]

That form doesn't look like something from us, please don't send it off until the guys have a chance to look at it. Is it from BW Legal?

 

Did you have a look at the post in the thread dx100uk linked you to?

 

HB

[FTMDave]

Others have explained upthread that you don't owe this money.  Judges have ruled on "blown away ticket" cases several times and found in the motorists' favour.

 

Despite this, a bunch of fleecers and now a firm of unscrupulous solicitors are threatening you in the hope that you don't know the law and will be daft enough to cough up money you don't owe.

 

So don't use their silly forms!  They're not the police or the council.  They're crooks.  You need to show them you've sussed their game and refuse to abide by their made-up procedures.

 

Draft a letter based on dx's link and post it up here please before sending.

 

 

 

 

[Willow2020]

It is the same reply form that BW Legal sent me and the one in the link from dx100uk.

 

Just read the post from FTM Dave - I will draft a letter and post it up here. 

 

Many thanks

 

 

[Gick]

Under no circumstance should you play BWL's game by filling in THEIR form. Instead send a letter such as the one by ericsbrother that DX suggested which I show below.

 

Dear BWL,

I hope you don't mind me calling you this as you don't seem to be able to spell your actual name although Sean isn't that hard to write.

Any debt to your client is denied, they clearly have forgotten about their ATA enforced grace period and also don't seem to comprehend that when you have bought a ticket there isn't a breach of not having one to consider. You might also like to know their paperwork is laughable and loses them their right to claim from the outset.

Still, any company desperate enough to hire the parking worlds second worst solicitors surely lack any sense of reality but they can be sure that any claim will be robustly defended, a full costs recovery order sought for their unreasonable conduct and possibly a claim made against them for breach of the GDPR for accessing and processing my personal data when they had no reason to do so as per VCs v Phillip, Liverpool CC 2016.

I look forward to a deafening silence from you and them from now on.

Do not modify it to be less abrasive as this is the only way to indicate that you know that they are charlatans and you are not/ won't be scared into paying their demands. As they do not sign their missives properly, do not sign your letter, just print your name. (They are not beyond scanning and appending a signature to other documents.)