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Willow2020

KBT Cornwall Ltd /Armtrac Security Services Windscreen PCN - Lusty Glaze car park, Newquay - Advice Please

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Hi, 

 

I would be very grateful for some advice please !

 

I received a windcreen ticket PCN back in January.

I purchased a ticket and placed this on the dashboard of my car in full display.

 

When I returned I had received a windscreen ticket Notice to Driver

- the day we parked it was when Storm Brendan was starting to hit Cornwall and the car park is on a cliff next to the beach

- what had happened is the strong winds blew the ticket off the dashboard and elsewhere in the car which I hadn't realised.

The ticket was valid during our stay and didn't not run out of time but when we got back to the car a PCN was on the windscreen.

 

As I had a valid ticket I stupidly got in touch with Armtrac  (I hadn't found this website or advice on it prior to getting in contact with them) and thought common sense would prevail and they would cancel the PCN, however they did not and now they have passed it onto BW Legal. 

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement? 12/1/2020

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] I did not appeal to the parking company as I had a valid ticket and told them I would not appeal it as there is nothing to appeal. They sent back photo picture of the car with no ticket displayed, this was due to the very windy weather and the ticket blowing off the dash board). I have attached their appeal pdf sent to me.

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

has there been a response?

They have now passed this on to BW Legal to collect their invoice
 

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

They sent a letter on the 4/2/2020 stating it is a final letter before debt recovery, I presume this is the NTK however it was sent before 29 days and also missing requirements set out in the POFA (letter is attaached).
 

what date is on it

04/02/2020
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Armtrac provided photo evidence via email on the 15th of January
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ( PoFA) [Y/N?]

No
 

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

I did not appeal and then BW Legal got in contact by sending a letter on the 17th of March
 

 

5 Who is the parking company?

KBT Cornwall Ltd T/as Armtrac Security Services
 

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

Lusty Glaze Car Park, Lusty Glaze Road, Newquay (Private Land)

 

Any advice and help is appreciated!
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Thank you for the information so far, we know that car park well.

 

When you wrote to Armtrac, did you indicate that you were the driver that day?

 

Best, HB

 

PS I've edited your thread title to show the car park.

 

I've had to remove your attachments to keep this anonymous for you. Please redact your name, address, reg plate number, ticket number and anything else that could identify and you repost them?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB, 

 

Thank you for the welcome and reply to my message. In reply to your question when communicating with Armtrac and BW Legal I have never mentioned I was the driver, I have said I am the keeper of the car and I purchased the ticket. 
 

Also thank you for removing the PDF, I will rescan with certain details blocked out. 

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Welcome to the Forum Willow.

When you have read a few other  threads you will find a complete absence of common sense from any of the crooks who mismanage car parks.  You will find greed and avarice in abundance closely followed by lies and ignorance. Their only saving grace is that they are also extremely stupid and that is where we catch them out.

 

There is no need to pay their PCN as you have already paid so they have suffered no loss.

Do not waste time writing to them as they don't understand the concept that people do not need to pay twice.

They have lost in Court quite a few times but they think if they threaten enough and ramp up their charges, many people will pay.  So just ignore them.

 

They won't go away but  just relax knowing that they are wasting their time and money on you.

They will also set their unregulated debt collectors on you.

Don't worry about them they are possibly more venal and stupid than even Armtrac, hard though it may be to believe.

Just ignore them too.

 

They only write about twice-they have a very limited vocabulary and absolutely nothing to worry about.

They also use solicitors who know less about the Law than my 6 year old granddaughter-and she knows nothing about the Law but she's very cute.

 

In order to help us could you kindly post up both PCNs  and the correspondence with Armtrac and BW Legal please.

That will show up other things that they have done wrong should they not give up.

It is always useful to have more than one string to your bow.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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as post 5

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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thread tidied

as post 5 now


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi Willow,

as you can see why we advise against writing to any of them since they are not interested in anything other than getting you to pay. Kind of rich for BW legal advising you to seek legal advice when they are trying to charge you an extra £60 for legal costs for which you are not liable as the keeper.  No wonder they lose so many cases for their clients when the intricacies of POFA are obviously beyond them. 

 

It doesn't look as if you have compromised yourself by writing to them

-just wasting your time since they are not going to backdown yet.

 

You did include the windscreen PCN but not the NTK.

It would help if you could kindly include that minus your name, reg no etc.

 

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Hi lookinforinfo,

 

thank you for the message, what I have attached to the post is everything Armtrac sent me, I presumed the ‘Final demand’ letter from them was the NTK. I have attached the original NTD on the windscreen, the rest are letters sent to me by Armtrac and then B W Legal

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windscreen ticket in in the PDF's but I can't see the Notice to keeper? 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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I suspect that when you wrote and said that you were ther keeper and paid the ticket, they have taken it that you were also the driver so no  need to send a NTK. That does mean that if you were not the driver then their lack of the NTK means that as the keeper you are not liable for the debt as there has been no mention from them of POFA. 

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Hi 

 

thanks for the reply, they haven’t sent me an NTK in the time frame allowed then, also at no point is it indicated I am the driver when communicating with them and BW. 
 

is there anything I need to do or just wait to see what they do next? 
 

many thanks

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You have to understand that collectively Armtrac have the brain capacity of less than a single amoeba. So the concept say of even a husband and wife as an example where one is the keeper and the other the driver hasn't quite sunk in with them yet. Give them a couple of years at least and perhaps they will get it.

 

Just ignore them and their unregulated debt collectors and anyone else. But if you get a Letter before Claim then let us know . Just go on enjoying life in lockdown and forget them.

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You said you were the purchaser of the ticket which means that you were the one who read the terms and accepted the offer so they have the right person and the POFA doenst apply.

if you had kept your mouth shut you would be out of the woods by now but by engaging with them you have given them a half chance of collecting a payday.

look at council parking law and you will see that a blown away ticket is a breach of the parking laws and you have to pay the penalty charge.

however, this is not a penalty charge so  more staightforward contract law applies and basically you paid and that is enough to crystallise the contract and other silly terms like displaying the ticket is an adminstrative convenience for them rather than a necessity in law.

 

now you need to block their email and seta bounce back message as well if you can so they are forced to write to you with a proper letter. you need to read up more on private parking so you dotn drop yourslef in it any deeper before this reaches a conclusion

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