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    • ok Finally got home!   I'll try and keep it short however we finally got to an agreeable place   Walked over to sales as there was no more servicing could do especially as the aftersales manager quite simply said they will not be footing the bill. Spoke to the salesman, updated him and he was lost for words and had to ask me where things were left -  Requested senior management to come down - both head of business and general sales manager are off for half term.  That left the buying manager - ironically the same who purchased the car in for the dealership.  He was called downstairs but in the time that he did, he must have called the aftersales manager.   Once down, everything suddenly changed -  I was told they are now 'reaching a compromise' (I assume between the two departments) and it will be put right.  The part is being ordered, is on backorder for 2-3 weeks and once in, they will fit it. This of course means I am potentially out of my 30 day exchange/1000 mile exchange however appreciate I can drag it out if it came to rejecting it.    I got the aftersales manager to put in writing the part IS being ordered and if the part does not for whatever reason fix it, I CAN exercise the exchange regardless of how many days/miles I am out. --This was CCd to the sales manager, the service advisor and the buying manager stating he is accepting/making the decision in the absence of the two other managers.   So all in one- another wasted 5 hours there + the drive up/down but we are hopefully now at a point the final issue will be either permanently fixed or it will be the deciding factor of returning the car.  The part-ex has also gone so it's not like we could even just change back for now.   The part is scheduled to arrive pretty much the week of our due date which really messes this up in terms of transport/planning however we'll cross that bridge then - for now, I need to destress the other half who really did not need this especially with what is essentially for her the baby car    Could I ask - IF it does not fix it and we decide against the exchange - can we still reject?  If we can, what happens to the part-ex thats now gone/auctioned off?   I too believe 99% it will fix it but just curious.     Also just for anyone else taking an interest, the MMI unit that is faulty is not just the navigation but everything Audi - phone, radio, cd, sd card, service indicators, settings for the various components - its all part of the MMI brain.  And so the reason this is important that it is resolved is usually with this unit, if one part fails, it's likely the entire unit will fail.      
    • They don't have to care.  This is Britain - the biggest reaction will be some mild tutting.  The main goal now must be to keep the fear factor high whilst ensuring the pockets of the few continue to be lined.   
    • Cat 6 Marker then. Thats one of the worse you can get.  As @Andyorchsaid... You might need to go to the FOS etc to get this done. We had someone else who went all the way with Tesco and lost. Cat 6 Markers are very difficult to get removed.
    • This guide should help.   https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/
    • Lloyds Banking Group is estimating losses of more than £7bn across loans likely never to be repaid, according to its Q3 results View the full article
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Cancelled BT within 14 days but they wont leave me alone.


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yes, ahead of this post I emailed them to tell them I am going to take further action to resolve this....... I have received this today via email...... the SAR was sent recorded with proof of postage today. 

 

Quote

 

Our reference is: IMP-105673394
 
Hi Sam,

Sorry again for the problems you've had. To put things right I have removed the full outstanding balance on your account. This means we will not be asking you to pay this and you will not receive any further invoices or follow up from us,

What happens next
If I don't hear back from you by 29/05/20 I'll assume everything's resolved.

How to get in touch
If your complaint's not yet resolved or you want to discuss further, let me know straight away by emailing. We're open Monday – Friday, 9am – 5pm.

Please visit bt.com/complaints if you'd like to see a copy of BT's Complaint Code. We're a member of the ADR scheme operated by Ombudsman Services: Communications. Their contact details are:

• Phone 0330 440 1614
• Text phone 0330 440 1600 or 0845 051 1513 (RNID Typetalk Relay or TextDirect only)
• Email enquiries@os-communications.org
• Post Ombudsman Services: Communications, PO box 730, Warrington,WA4 6WU
• Fax 0330 440 1615

Kind Regards,

Sharyn
Glasgow Billing Complaints
Business Customer Support Advisor

 

 

 
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A|t least they responded, however I wouldn't hold my breath.  Have you had any correspondence from a debt collector about this, if so who are they?

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Good. It seems that they are sitting up and taking notice. Well done.

I'm afraid that I agree that I don't think you can rest easy at the moment. I'm afraid that we have too many situations like this where month later it wakes up because we find that the process hasn't properly been stopped by the company that made the original error.

I asked you earlier if you had entered into this contract with BT is a business – but you haven't addressed this.

Have you actually received letters from a debt collector? If so which debt collector.

I think you should check your credit file. Maybe you could do that today online.

Then we will have to write a further letter to British Telecom depending on what you find.

I think you should be entitled to some compensation if you are prepared to push for it. If it really has come to an end now then I £100 or so is easily achievable. If they have sent it out to a debt collector then we are talking more and if it appears on your credit file then I think in the circumstances we could be looking at £200 or £300.

We will have to find out who they have shared your data with. This will be very important.

So please address the question about whether you have contracted as business. This is important. The debt collector and also check your credit file.

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Thanks again Bankfodder, I did reply Friday 20.28 yes to your question, this is a BT business order. I will check my credit file later this evening.   

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Thank you. It becomes relevant because if you have to bring a legal action against them then the case is more likely to be heard in their local court rather than yours. If you are a litigant in person then it would be almost automatically allocated to your own local court even though you were the claimant.

Can you tell us a bit about your business. Are you a sole trader/working from home/kind of trader – or something rather more structured and formal

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Is the contract in your business name or in your own personal name?

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My own name, just looking at how to check my credit score so I have to sign up with card details to someone like Experian to see it?  

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13 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Thank you. It becomes relevant because if you have to bring a legal action against them then the case is more likely to be heard in their local court rather than yours. If you are a litigant in person then it would be almost automatically allocated to your own local court even though you were the claimant.

Can you tell us a bit about your business. Are you a sole trader/working from home/kind of trader – or something rather more structured and formal

Yes sole trader, working from home

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Okay, if the contract is in your own name that I think that it is quite reasonable to describe yourself as a litigant in person in which case it is most likely that the case will be allocated to your local court. This gives you a huge advantage because it means that BT would have to go to substantial expense to resist a claim.

Yes, in order to check your credit file, you will have to register with one of the agencies

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Here is the list of events.....

 

25-09-19 Placed order - gave new address it was for and move date

25-09-19 Equipment sent to address but I hadn’t moved there, moving in 7-10-19.

25-09-19 My phone call, send equipment to current address

26-09-19 Activation date given 7th October in 5 identical emails

30-09-19 Activation date changed 14-10-19

02-10-19 Cancelled order had confirmation email and live chat screen grab confirming cancellation

03-10-19 Made order with Virgin media for broadband and line

03-10-19 Equipment returned via BT own plastic return envelope

07-10-19 Phone call to check order was cancelled but was still live

07-10-19 Order cancelled confirmation email from BT

08-10-19 New activation date given for BT 18-10-19

08-10-19 Order confirmation of BT 4G assure, dont know what this is

08-10-19 Confirmation email cancelled BT cloud phone

08-10-19 My phone call confirming all was cancelled in 14 day period,told records would be updated and no money is due.

08-10-19 Virgin broadband and calls up and running

09-10-19 Email confirming BT order for superfast broadband and calls

15-10-19 Email confirming engineer appointment

16-10-19 Opened complaint BT , why is order still being processed

16-10-19 Phone call from BT admitting errors and confirming no money was due system would be updated 

17-10-19 Email you missed your engineer appointment

17-10-19 Started complaint received email engineer would not be charged to me

26-10-19 Your monthly BT bill is ready to view online

01-11-19 Email, account service information thanks for choosing BT

11-11-19 Email informing me they are merging my accounts

26-11-19 Email your monthly bill is ready

28-11-19 Email weve put your BT products and services into one account

26-01-20 Email your monthly bill is ready

26-02-20 Email BT your monthly bill is ready

04-04-20 Letter, have you forgot to pay your balance

11-04-20 Letter, you need to pay your balance

12-04-20 Letter, have you forgotten to pay your balance

19-04-20 Letter, you need to pay your final balance

23-04-20 Letter we will pass your account to DCA if not paid  

28-04-20 My email sent, taking further action 

01-05-19 Email confirmation of complaint, we have removed full outstanding balance

01-05-19 Email, there has been an update on your case, please contact but no contact info given, email was no-reply

01-05-19 SAR posted asking for all information relating to my order and any other generated orders 

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In terms of any compensation the real stress was sending equipment to the address before I got there when I made it clear I was moving 7th October and MUST have the service for my business..... then the changing of the agreed start date form 7th to 14th October which would have meant no broadband for a week which my business very much needs, it was this reason that BT didn't seem to know what they were doing that I cancelled.

 

When I contacted virgin to start a service with them it turned out there hardware was already in the property from previous tenant,  is was only this that meant I could have broadband the day after I moved in, if it wasnt for that I could have been down for 2 weeks if I hadn't picked them.

 

After this its just the time on the phone and live chat totalling about 2 hours in all

 

Thanks !         

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I would have ripped the BT equipment out even if working from day 1... once I saw the Virgin Equipment  :becky:

We could do with some help from you.

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In order to decide where to go on this we have to ascertain your losses.

Thank you for the extensive list of who said what to whom and when – but it doesn't actually tell us how you have been inconvenienced in terms of using up your time.

Also, I believe that you haven't checked your credit file yet although this has been suggested to you at least a couple of times.

In the SAR that you eventually sent off, have you asked them to disclose the identities of anybody with whom they have shared your data? If not then you should send off this request as well – but do it straight away – you are going to have to prioritise this unless you want to let it all go.

I'm sure you have noticed by now that we are react very quickly on this forum and in fact moving rapidly and aggressively in respect of these companies is the only way to keep them on the back foot and to take control. If this style suits you then we can be very helpful to you. If on the other hand this conflicts with other commitments or priorities then we will all have to sit down and wonder whether it's worth the effort.

Once you have consulted your credit file, we will have a much better idea of the damage they had caused. Also, if you find that some marker has been placed upon it then you should write to BT and complaining about that and seeing what the response was. One word of warning is that even if you consult your credit file now, it will be worth doing it again in two or three weeks in order to check its current status.

Once we ascertain what damage or losses you have suffered, you will then be able to decide whether or not you think it is worth pursuing this is a small claim in the County Court – which is very likely where it will have to end up if you want to make headway.

Small claims in the County Court are very straightforward – and because we will be able to describe you as a litigant in person, the case will most likely be heard in your local court – if it goes to a hearing – which means that the inconvenience to you will be minimised. I should say now that the chances of anything going to hearing are quite remote – but the chances of having to issue the papers against BT will be pretty high. They are unlikely to make any reasonable moves towards you without being forced.
However, until we can ascertain your losses in terms of discernible money losses and also inconvenience to you in terms of wasted time – in respect of which we may have to try and place a value, along with the necessity for suing for distress caused by breaches of data protection rules, there is not much else we can advise at this point.

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The information I gave is how best I can show the time I have had to waste, I have no other means I can think of to estimate what has happened. I have made free sign up with Experian and shows excellent score but doesn't look like I can find any other info if there is any occurrences, there are no options for this.

 

Here is what was put in the SAR.....

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

GENERAL DATA PROTECTION REGULATIONS - SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

ACCOUNT /REF NUMBER Order-BT7425CX  BCD41

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to the above order and any accounts raised by this order.

 

This order was made and cancelled within 14 days however I continue to receive correspondence regarding money due despite many confirmations from you via email and live chat the order was cancelled and no monies were due.

  

There is no applicable fee for this data disclosure – unless you feel that my request is manifestly unfounded, excessive or repetitive – in which case you have a duty to let me know without any delay.

 

Under the new GDPR regime, you must satisfy this data disclosure request as soon as possible and in any event within one month. 

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return however, you are not entitled to impose any formality upon me or to require that I complete any particular form or template before you comply with your statutory duty. 

 

I also require you to confirm to me that you are processing my personal data, how you acquired it, for what purpose you are processing it and also to identify all the parties with whom you have shared it. You are required to provide this information regardless of whether you believe that the substantive disclosure satisfies the conditions which permit you to impose a charge. 

 

I also required to know whether my data has been subject to any automatic processing which has resulted in decisions or suggested decisions being made in respect of me. Also, has my personal data been used in any way to categorise me or to place me on any lists. If so please explain.

 

Finally, I should remind you that you have a duty to make clear the meaning of any codes or shorthand which you use in relation to my personal data. 

 

If I do not hear from you then I will assume that this Statutory Request is satisfactory and that the one month timescale has started. 

 

If you fail to comply with all of your obligations, I will make an immediate complaint to the Information Commissioner about your statutory breach – and without any further notice to you. 

 

This may also lead to legal action in the County Court and a judgement will then be forwarded to the FCA.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

------------------------------- end of SAR Letter

 

 

I received this letter this morning dated 29-04-20

 

Were passing your information to a debt collection agency

Quote

 

Dear Customer

Were passing your information to a debt collection agency and this is going to increase the amount you owe.

Debt collection agencies add an administration fee to your debt which is typically 25% of the value of the original invoice. If we have to take legal action to get you to pay  well ask the court to make you pay our legal costs too. Your debt will increase and your credit rating might be affected.

You can stop this by paying now

Information on how to pay is on your bill. If you need to discuss this please contact our collections team on the number below

 

 

  

 

   

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Dont holt your breath , we submitted a SAR to BT almost 6 months ago , and despite reminders , still waiting , they are blaming every man and his dog for the delay , at the moment its the virus causing the delay

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2 hours ago, samj8042 said:

 

 

Here is what was put in the SAR.....

 

I received this letter this morning dated 29-04-20

 

 

 

   

 

It's a shame that you didn't use our SAR template – which is much broader than this. By pointing to specific information that you want, you limit the extent of your search and that means that you limit the extent of their liability if they happen not to produce information you want. Frankly I think that you should send them another SAR immediately this time – using a template and tell them that you want all data that they hold on you in any form and in respect of any matter.
Then they have no get out clauses. By giving them a specific SAR in the way you have, you have simply given them get out clauses in the event that there is something else wrong that we don't understand.

 

1 hour ago, sparkeyrjp said:

Dont holt your breath , we submitted a SAR to BT almost 6 months ago , and despite reminders , still waiting , they are blaming every man and his dog for the delay , at the moment its the virus causing the delay

and in relation to @sparkeyrjp why are you allowing yourself to be led around by the nose in this way. You should have started a legal action against them for this ages ago.
BT and the other companies count on the fact that their customers are too timid to assert themselves – and generally speaking they're dead right.

Do you have a thread about this? Please link us to it. If you don't have a thread then start one and tell the story.

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template removed

please read what it says in red in the 1st line...

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

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^^^

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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I have just noticed the second letter which you appear to have received from them which directly contradicts earlier message to you that they would stop collection.

Don't be worried about this. it is very helpful to you because it shows that they are in complete disarray and it will simply increase the level of their liability.

Also I noticed that they have made threats against you first of all all to add debt collection fees or up to 25% of the alleged it. This would be unenforceable and it is abusive of them to make this threat.  for the more it had to the distress that you must quite reasonably feel as a result of this. This will add to the level of compensation that we will help you claim.

 

finally, I noticed that they are threatening you with costs if they bring a claim against you in the courts. This also is an abuse of process. if they bought a claim against you it would be for a sum far smaller than £10,000 full stop this would mean that they would have to see you for a small claim in the county court and the rules relating to costs are that even if they win they would not be entitled to recover costs from you.

they are fully aware of this of course an effective threat they are making you is an unjustified, bullying and abuse of threat. This is calculated also to add to the level of distress that you're meant to feel. It is the equivalent of demanding money with menace's and when you eventually pursue them for compensation, this will raise the amount that you will claim.

Please don't be worried about any of this. In the end it is all helpful to you you because every mistake they make goes to your advantage. 

as soon as you have collected all the information which is needed to give you a solid basis for your case, we will help you move into a position where you will put them on the back foot. 

I think it would be quite reasonable to think in terms of compensation around £500. Of course it won't be be possible to make a better assessment until we have all the information we need.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Bankfodder so next thing for me is to send new SAR today with wider request of info, I put up a template here to confirm it was correct but it was removed !

Let me know any other info you need.

 

 

 

 

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We prefer our templates to remain in the library and not put on open display. This is only because people who are not registered on the forum don't have access to the library and we would rather that people register first. Nothing more sinister than that. We don't charge any money or anything.

So you have the benefit of the template, modify it as you need – but not too much and keep it broad. Then send it off straight away. Let us know that you have done this.

On what I understand so far of your situation, I am confident that we can produce a good result for you – but we need the information. I'm never happy about getting involved in any kind of threat or legal action without knowing that I'm on firm ground. We have your interests at heart – and if you are fully prepared then you are less likely to come a cropper.

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6 hours ago, BankFodder said:

but we need the information

Let me know what you need next.

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Well we want to see the results of the SAR so that we can understand exactly what BT has done – or they think they have done.

I'm afraid that it isn't quick – they are meant to provide you with this information as soon as possible but within 30 days. In practice they all take 30 days.

 

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Ok will sit tight and let you know as soon as I hear and set reminder for 30days to pursue. I have another letter from BT today asking if I have forgot to pay my bill. In Covid it seems BT have lots more time to pursue me.

Thanks as always 

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