Centrica/CST claimform - Industrial Training Bond

[smooth]

Hi all, 

 

They had initially chased me for the money and i spoke to centrica directly disagreeing with owing this money and the department in Centrica who deal with money owed advised me to email another department which i did.

 

The email contained my reasoning behind leaving, my justification in doing so and why i don't agree with owing this money. 

I had heard nothing from centrica since that email was sent

 

now 3 years later i'm being harassed by credit style asking repay this money.

I was wondering if anyone else in this thread has heard anything else since receiving these letters as i appear to be a month or 2 behind you lot.

 

They have left me numerous voice mails

however on one of the recent voicemails they said they'll have to pass the debt back to centrica if i don't contact them?

 

I also read that employers can't seek money off an employee through a government funded apprenticeship however i'm not sure how true that holds to this particular case though the apprenticeship at least partly was government funded.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

 

(i recently done a credit check on my name and i have zero debt on my credit file also)  

[BadMojo]

It's gone quiet for me. Maybe to be expected with the current situation (Covid-19). Or a sign they're moving on as I'm not playing their game?

[dx100uk]

ignore them all

 

dx

 

[ericsbrother]

they have solved your problem for you.

 

If you don't pay up they will stop harassing you as they dont do that for free so it becomes Centrica's problem again.

 

centrica will have to provide proper accounts as to what is owed and why and they may find this costs more than the debt they are chasing.

 

maintain radio silence for the meanwhile

[smooth]

Hi BadMojo, 

 

Have you heard anything since receiving that letter from CST law?

 

I've received mine today (after receiving letters from Credit Style)  and it's for the training bond for leaving British gas i left within the first year so they're stating i owe over £9,000  ...

 

The letter states 'Our client' 'possible legal action' and 'new balance if a CCJ is obtained' among other things.

 

Thanks for advice/help regarding this matter 

Edited November 30, 2021 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

sounds like a std threat-o-gram hoping to find a mug to fleece.

and of course the letter doesn't say will anything.

 

as long as the client (the 'debt' owner) has your correct and current address and you have not moved, very safe to ignore.

 

ther are no examples I can find of any legal action by BG involving these 'courses' .

 

dx

 

[smooth]

Thanks DX really appreciate your advice

[smooth]

Hello, following up on my old thread and I am in a similar situation to others who have posted recently. 

 

in all honesty I’m very confused about everything and what I have to do

 

i had a claim form sent to me in which it stated I had to respond, I did even though I didn’t fully understand it and had also spoken to CST law who were putting offers across to Centrica to clear the debt if we can come to an agreement. 

 

I have since received another letter called ‘notice of proposed allocation to the fast track’ stating this is now a defended claim

 

my understanding from CST law is that everything is on hold until Centrica reply with a response after the offer we had put across to them I chased CST law multiple times and they kept saying they haven’t responded and to wait

 

now I have this from the court which is time sensitive the questions and what I need to fill in are extremely confusing to someone like my self who isn’t technical in the legal system 

 

I have rang CST law multiple times and each time the legal team are busy and my case handler just isn’t ringing me back

 

from my understanding after ringing the court I have to fill out this form by the 20th December and I am happy to do so but I really have no idea what sections I should fill in and weather I say yes or no to certain questions

 

is anyone else in a similar position to me or can assist me with what I am meant to be doing? That would be greatly appreciated 

 

thanks again 

[FTMDave]

Good grief.  CST Law are the enemy.  They won't help you.  CAG however will.

 

Please upload the form you have to fill in.

 

And write here what you put in your defence.

 

 

[dx100uk]

why have you come here so late after getting the claimform?

 

you now have an N181 , use our search top right for that one

 

but we need all the usual information please!!

 

fill this out :

 

 

 

 

and post up the defence you filled too please

 

dx

 

[AndyOrch]

 

[smooth]

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

Claim form issue date - 28th July 

 

Notice of proposed allocation to the fast track - 18th November 

 

poc

 

1.The claimant's claim is in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses full particulars of which have been previously supplied

 

2.and the claimant claims 9324.63 GBP, Account No 2151**

 

3374.24 GBP, interest thereon in accordance with Section 69a of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8.00% p.a. calculated from the date upon which payment became due to the date hereof as set out below.

Further interest at the rate of 2.04 per day (8.00% p.a.) to judgement of payment.

 

The claimant believes that the facts stated in this claim form are true and I am duly authorised by the claimant to sign this statement 

 

What is the total value of the claim? £13433 
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Training bond due to leaving an apprenticeship before 3 years 
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? They have sent me a virtually signed document with the contract
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Centrica are claimant, CST law are dealing and the court

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I believe so yes
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? I have had multiple letters like everyone else who has been on the forum over the years regarding this matter
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? I am unsure, but when I left I had contested the original claim as I was dealing directly with Centrica’s collection team and they never got back to me after the final email I had sent and didn’t hear anything until years down the line
 

Why did you cease payments? N/A
 

What was the date of your last payment? N/A
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Correct I originally contested what was owed back in 2017 and gave my reasons for leaving and I assumed the matter was closed
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

 

I left a British Gas apprenticeship within the first 12 months of starting and went back to my old career in an office , my reasons for leaving were down to the completely different job role which I realised quickly was not for me and it was impacting my mental health massively. The claim is for a training bond which was in a contract I signed based on a sliding scale Year 1 - £9,000 year 2 £6,000 year 3 £3,000  

 

............................

 

 

Thank you everyone for your quick responses I just wish I posted here in the first place 

 

I probably shouldn't have filled in the claim form however on the letter it said I had limited time to do so and because I was dealing with CST law trying to come to an agreement with paying off the debt I didn't think it would get to this point and now I have probably made my situation worst. Of course, I would have posted here first before sending it off had I not been in communication with CST to set up an agreement. 

 

I sent the letter back to the court as some point in early August, the issue date on the claim form is 28th July and the most recent letter I have received 'Notice of fast track' is dated 18th November 

 

If I am honest I can't fully remember what I wrote word for word in my defence, it would have been along the lines of why I left, my reasons and the fact I returned to my old career in an office plus taking a pay cut to do so. There wasn't much room to write a long winded defence so I kept it relativity short.

 

The above document Andy has posted is the exact document I am now looking at very confused in what exactly I put where 

 

I just want to re-iterate I never agreed with this money I owe due to the training bond but it has gone on for so long at this point I'm happy to set up a payment plan if the balance can get reduced or a small one off payment upfront and this is exactly what I was trying to do prior to receiving the most recent letter 

 

I have had zero communication from CST law, Centrica advised me to deal with them directly and I was waiting for a response from CST with the offer we had put across to Centrica - I chased it multiple times the following weeks and they kept telling me they haven't had a response and when they do we'll contact you which they still have not

 

Ideally I would rather not give them any money however I feel like I am out of options at what I probably should have done years ago is attempt to get it reduced and set up a payment plan 

 

Please let me know if I have missed any critical info out 

 

Thanks again for everyone's help

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by dx100uk
formatting

[dx100uk]

have you sent the CPR 31.14 we told everyone else to send?

why did you not follow the examples upon defence already here

what date is top right of the claimform please?

[smooth]

No I did not send CPR 31. 14, or follow up any defences in other threads and the reason why is because I was trying to come to an arrangement with CST law to reduce the bill and get it paid or set up a payment plan in hindsight I should have messaged here first, a big mistake on my part. 

 

Claim form issue date - 28th July 

 

Notice of proposed allocation to the fast track - 18th November 

 

Please let me know if you require any further info I will be at my computer all day and can reply much quicker 

 

Thank you 

 

[AndyOrch]

So you need to complete the DQ and get that filed and served.

 

A. Settlement (I assume you have no desire to offer any settlement so tick no at 1.) 

at 3 state your briefest reason as to why you don't wish to settle and is inappropriate and why you have defended the claim.

 

B. B2  Yes you are litigant and it must be heard in your local county court.

 

C. Not applicable to you the defendant

 

D. D1 No

    D2  N/A

    D3  N/A

    D4  N/A

 

E.  No

 

F. 1 yourself

 

G.  Less than 1 day 3 hours

 

H. N/A

 

I.  No

 

J. The claimants will set the Directions and you can agree or disagree

 

Sign and date the courts copy and provide email contact (not the claimants copy just date)

 

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I see you were being harassed by Credit Style.  Well CST Law are simply Credit Style.  They're not a real firm of solicitors.  Credit Style admit this on their website.

 

We really need to see what you wrote in your defence.  If you've admitted or partially admitted to owing the money it could be bad news.

 

I see Andy has indicated how to fill the current form in.

 

 

[smooth]

Wow thank you Andy for the above, just a couple Q's before I fill in the bits I am unsure off, first is the below defence okay? 

 

A.3

 

I wish not to settle because I left due to my mental health, I had always worked in an office I had zero experience doing a physical, challenging and technical job in an environment I had never worked in before.

 

It had a huge impact on my life inside and outside of work - I felt the support was never there from management, I was working alone and had no one to support me or talk to.

 

I continued trying to work through it but towards the end, I felt I had no choice but to leave due to the pressures I was putting on myself - I got in contact with my previous employer and was offered my old job back, this is where I still work today, I took a large pay cut going back, hopefully, this proves how bad the situation was I was going through.

 

I explained my reasoning at the time of leaving, I also spoke to Centrica directly regarding the training bond, I was advised to email a specific department which I did, I put my case across and why I am disputing plus my reasons for leaving and that was the last I heard until years later down the line.  

 

B. B2 - ‘yes’ I am unsure what I write in the box below? Do I write ‘I am litigant and it must be heard in my local county court.’ It asks which court also? 

 

C - leave blank? 

 

F - Myself, do I need to state anything in the witness to which facts box next to it? 

 

J - leave blank? 

 

FTM Dave my original defence would have been similar to what I wrote above, I wouldn't have admitted to owing the money. 

 

Also I have the original email I sent to Centrica back in 2017 stating why I left and after I had sent that in I didn't hear anything until years later I will post it below as it may help my case further down the line if you would like to have a look at it - 

 

I have been advised to email in regards with the training bond I’d like to dispute.

My payroll number is ******** & my name is *********
I started my career in British Gas as an apprentice Smart meter Engineer back in July 2016 and made the decision to leave in January 2017.

The reason I left the company was because I realised that this type of work wasn’t for me, British Gas recruited me knowing my previous job history which was all office based and working alongside other colleagues in a team environment. Prior to this I had no previous experience working on my own or doing manual work.

My argument is that during my training and even when I went out on patch with a mentor I was always with someone, so I never really got a taste for what the job would be like, mentally without being around colleagues and working on my own. Not only that whilst I was out with the mentors they would always help you finish the jobs and take some of the work off your hands, either they would want to finish on time or had somewhere they needed to be so even then I never really understood how challenging the work was.

When I finally became qualified and was working on my own it was a massive shock to me how different the actual job was. I never once expected how mentally I would feel not having anyone alongside me to work with and how much more physically challenging the job was especially not having anyone to help me out.

I understand British Gas train you on a lot of things but when it comes to mental & physical preparation for the job I didn’t have the right training and support that I needed once I qualified.

This is my whole argument because a company such as yourselves should understand that this job isn’t going to be for everyone and should have measures in place to identify people like me, who may find it a lot more challenging than someone who has worked on their own before or come from an engineering background.

When I joined British Gas I was ** and prior to this had worked in ************** for 4 years doing call centre work, straight away someone of my age and my previous job experience should have raised alarm bells as being a high risk individual. But rather than speak to me on a one to one basis by your PS department or give me a little bit longer after I became qualified so I could actually get a taste for what the job was. I was put in the same boat as everyone else and now I’m liable to pay a £9,000 training bond.

As soon as I realised that this Job wasn’t for me which was within a month of becoming qualified I made the decision to leave and go back to my old job which by me doing so meant I was taking over a £10,000 pay cut. That alone should prove to British Gas that I genuinely would of left sooner if I knew what the job was actually going to be like.

During my time at British Gas I did learn a lot about the smart metering program. I learnt that incidents had happened but not been released to the press, incidents in which it was extremely lucky customers hadn’t been hurt or worst, killed. How the engineers really carry out their work in a supposedly ’safe’ manner and how the company British Gas victimise people like my self regardless of your age into paying a huge amount of money after realising the job they applied for after only doing the actual job for a month isn’t for them.

British Gas as a company are more than happy enough to put people into a massive amount of debt after only working for the company for 6 months and doing the job it self for 1 month and certain individuals like my self this will put a huge strain on someone’s finical commitments and mental health for years and years to come.

If this can’t be resolved fairly the only other action I can take is to pass what I know over to numerous online press agencies and TV channels and really go into detail with what I’ve learned about the company, the manner in which meters are installed, incidents that have occurred, support which should be there but isn't and how the company treats its young apprentices.

I really do hope this can be resolved as that is the last option I’d want to take.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

B. B2 - ‘yes’ I am unsure what I write in the box below? Do I write ‘I am litigant and it must be heard in my local county court.’ It asks which court also?  State your Local county Court name if you know it

 

C - leave blank?  Yes that's for the claimant

 

F - Myself, do I need to state anything in the witness to which facts box next to it?  No just you your name

 

J - leave blank? Yes the claimant will post its directions to you later for approval and agreement

 

 

With regards to your comments for A3 ...this is not another opportunity to state a defence...just a simple explanation as to why you cant agree to mediation

[smooth]

Thank you! I am going to get the letter sent off today.

 

. I am still unable to contact CST law, I was even giving the case handlers direct email and she 'apparently' tried ringing me 3 times as I was emailing her to no avail even though my phone was next to me, with signal, zero missed calls and no voicemail left.

 

Very disappointing from CST, 2 days later she has still yet to contact me. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have a clue what I should be doing so again thank you for help. 

 

One thing I did want to mention with my home insurance I have what's called 'family legal protection' 

 

Family Legal Protection & Insurance - Admiral

WWW.ADMIRAL.COM

---

Family Legal Protection will cover issues such as property or employment disputes, personal injury and personal identity theft. Get a quote with Admiral today

 

Do you think it is worth contacting them regarding the matter I am currently dealing with at this stage? 

Edited December 2, 2021 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[FTMDave]

What bit didn't you understand of

 

On 30/11/2021 at 15:01, FTMDave said:

Good grief.  CST Law are the enemy. 

and

 

23 hours ago, FTMDave said:

I see you were being harassed by Credit Style.  Well CST Law are simply Credit Style.  They're not a real firm of solicitors.  Credit Style admit this on their website.

Instead of wasting time with a debt collection agency get the court form filed and then think about the arguments you'll need to fight this claim.

[smooth]

Do you know of anyone who is ahead of me in this process? If so, what was the outcome? 

 

I want to try and avoid adding even more to the balance hence why I said to CST I'm happy to put an offer across and get the whole thing dropped

 

If it does go to court what are possible outcomes? 

[FTMDave]

Have a look at these three threads.  IIRC it's not they're ahead of you, more in parallel with you.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/419587-centricacst-claimform-industrial-training-bond/#comment-5028753

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/439918-centricacst-manual-claimform-scottish-gas-training-bond/#comment-5127871

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/437728-centrica-cst-reclaiming-training-bonds-as-overpaid-wages/#comment-5121350

 

I think the big question you need to answer is - do you accept you owe this money?  Because on the one hand the answer seems to be no and you file a defence to their claim, on the other hand the answer seems to be yes as you look to do a deal with them.  This half way house is getting you nowhere and you need to decide.

[smooth]

Yes the only reason I tried to pay some of the balance off and have the whole case dropped is because I don't want to keep dealing with it and I made the assumption it will go to court (due to the original court letter) and I'll loose.

 

I 100% do not agree with the money owed like the other threads.

 

I will file the letter and wait to see what the next step is - I will post again once I have their reply.

 

By the way, I offered to pay £2,000 and get everything dropped this is what I was waiting for CST to get back to be regarding.

 

Thanks again! Will update when I know more

 

[dx100uk]

pers i'd not pay it

there are people in front of you 

go read those threads.

[FTMDave]

Sorry if we seem to be bombarding you with questions, but there is a reason.

 

Before you got the court claim, did you receive a letter with

   Letter Before Claim, or

   Letter of Claim, or

   Letter Before Action in the heading?

 

I don't mean the usual threatening letters DCAs send out, I mean a proper notification of intention to start a court case.