another Centrica/CST claimform Fast Track - Industrial Training Bond . help with N181 please

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, smooth said:

is it worth me seeking legal advice? i have family legal protection on my home insurance which can be used for employment disputes etc

You are already getting legal advice here.  Caggers like Andyorch and dx are vastly experienced in these matters.

[smooth]

Ye I appreciate everyone replying and trying to help. 
 

guess I’m just preparing myself for the worst now   

 

There isn’t really anything I can note to disagree with when the hearing takes places either.

 

All of this goes over my head, I just want to explain my side of the story to the judge, explain I didn’t gain anything from leaving, left within 6months of starting and went back to my old job in an office for less pay.

 

If that means anything in the court of law and judge understands hopefully I won’t have the book thrown at me. Something tells me it won’t exactly work like that though  

[Andyorch]

If I may just remind you this is a Directions Allocations hearing...not the actual trial hearing. The court has not order either party to submit any paperwork as yet.

 

 

.

[smooth]

Ok thank you Andy, I’ll update after the hearing.  

[smooth]

Hey guys, I just want to check with yourselves if I don’t turn up to this hearing tomorrow will it be bad or not too important at this stage? I’m going to be on a stag do abroad that’s the only reason I’m asking 

[Andyorch]

On 09/05/2022 at 13:05, Andyorch said:

If I may just remind you this is a Directions Allocations hearing...not the actual trial hearing. The court has not order either party to submit any paperwork as yet.

 

 

.

I would at the very least inform the court you cant attend.

[smooth]

Hey everyone - back off holiday now and I thought I would update you on how the conversation went 

 

the judge brought up the fact I part admitted to £2,500,

 

I explained at the time this was because I was dealing with CST Law and this was the amount I was trying to agree to pay to close the case,

 

I wasn't admitting to anything and since filling that out I realised I made a mistake 

 

the judge explained I could submit paperwork to the court to withdraw that part admission at a cost £200-£350.

 

if this is worth doing I will but I wanted to seek advice here first? apologise I don't recall what the exact document was called 

 

The judge said we would have to attend court in person (in the area I live) in around 6 weeks

 

 I'm waiting on a letter from the court which should be arriving this week 

 

The claimant's solicitor wanted to request a 4-hour slot but the judge rejected that explaining this matter doesn't need to take up any more of the courts time and 2 hours will be adequate

 

The claimant said they will be bringing 2 witnesses  

 

the judge asked if we would want mediation - we both agreed however I haven't had any communication from them as of yet but I explained I'd be happy to stop this going any further if we can come to an agreement on the sum 

 

I explained to the judge I've never been in a position like this in my life and I never gained anything financially after leaving British gas i.e. i went back to my old job on less pay where I still remain today 

 

he took his time to explain things which I didn't understand and he seemed quite reasonable, he will also be the judge when I have to attend court. 

[Andyorch]

Quote

the judge explained I could submit paperwork to the court to withdraw that part admission at a cost £200-£350.

 

N244 and the fee without a hearing as I would consider its not required as you will be attending anyway shortly would be £108.00

[smooth]

hi everyone - i have some comms from the court and claimant which i'll post below / upload .. any advice I would massively appreciate & hopefully you will find the information useful 

 

The file I have uploaded needed to be reduced in size and some images have been blurred as a result 

 

Thanks again  

 

 

Letter from the court - 

 

District Judge ****** sitting at the County Court at ********************* has made the following Order;

 

UPON the court considering the papers including the Directions Questionnaires filed by both

parties.

 

UPON hearing solicitors agent for the Claimant and the Defendant in person at a telephone hearing

 

AND UPON the Defendant indicating an intention to seek to withdraw the admission filed following the

commencement of the proceedings

 

AND upon the court drawing the attention of the parties to the following warning:

 

The parties are reminded that Rule 1.1 of the Civil Procedure Rules [see http://

www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil] provides that part of the court's overriding

objective is to enforce compliance with rules, practice directions and orders.

 

Non-compliance with this order will be regarded as a very serious matter and will lead to

sanctions being taken against the non-complying party. These sanctions may, for example,

include excluding documents or evidence at trial or striking out a party's claim, defence or

counterclaim and/or the party in default having to pay the costs.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

Notes

 

If you cannot, or choose not to, attend the hearing, you must

write and tell the court at least 7 days before the date of the

hearing. The district judge will hear the case in your absence,

but will take account of your statement of case and any other

documents you have filed.

 

If you do not attend the hearing and do not give notice that

you will not attend, the district judge may strike out your

claim, defence or counterclaim. If the claimant attends but the

defendant does not, the district judge may make a decision

based on the evidence of the claimant only.

 

Leaflets explaining more about what you should do and what

happens when your case is allocated to the small claims

track are available from the court office or online at http://

hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk and search for leaflet EX306

 

The court office at the County Court at ********************. When corresponding with the court, please address forms

or letters to the Court Manazer and quote the Claim number. Tel: *******. Check if you can issue your claim online. It will save you time and money: Go tO

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk to find out more.

 

N157 Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (hearine)

 

Produced by:*****

 

 

CONTRACT DISPUTES

 

21. In any breach of contract case documents and information sent to the Court and to every other

party must contain (where relevant)

a) any written contract

b) any alleged amendment or variation of the contract

c) the breaches of the contract

d) what damage is said to have been caused

e) what injury or losses have been suffered and how any (and each) sum claimed has been calculated

f) the response of the defendant to each of the above

 

Guidance:

You may find it helpful to look at the Advice Now website at www.advicenow.org.uk/going-to-

court/ to obtain guidance as to how this case will be dealt with by the Court and how best to present

your case to the Court

 

Please note:

 

• You may have to wait for your case to be heard because many small claims hearings are listed

at the same time as other cases

• You should therefore allow sufficient time to attend Court allowing for the fact that you may

have to wait

 

Exceptionally, it may be necessary to adjourn your case to another date if it is not possible to deal

with it that day

 

Date 19 May 2022

 

For information on how HIMCTS uses personal data about you please see: //www.gov.uk/government/

organisations/hm-courts-and-tribunals-service/about/personal-information-charter

Am wybodaeth ynghylch sut mae GLITEM yn defnyddio data personol amdanoch chi, ewch i: //www.gov.uk/

government/organisations/hm-courts-and-tribunals-service/about/personal-information-charter

 

 

ALLOCATION

 

1. The case is allocated to the small claims track and the parties are referred to Part 27 of the Civil

Procedure Rules 1998 and the Practice Direction to that Part for guidance as to how the hearing will

be conducted

 

HEARING DATE

 

2. The case is listed for final hearing on 21 SEPTEMBER 2022 at 2:00 PM at the ****** and

Family Justice Centre with a time estimate of 2 HOUR(s) as an In Person Hearing.

 

The time estimate is given upon the basis of the papers before the Court. If any party believes that

the time estimate might be substantially inaccurate, that party must notify the Court immediately in

writing explaining why more time may be required

 

HEARING FEE

 

3. Unless the claimant does by 2.00pm on 24 AUGUST 2022 pay to the court the trial fee of

£346.00 or file a properly completed application (i.e one which provides all the required information

in the manner requested for help with fees, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 2pm

on 24 AUGUST 2022 without further order and, unless the court orders otherwise, you will also be

liable for the costs which the defendant has incurred.

 

If your claim has been struck out, it will no longer exist. The hearing will be vacated, unless

there is a counterclaim which survives the claim being struck out in which case the hearing

will go ahead."

 

WITNESS STATEMENTS

 

4. By 16 JUNE 2022 each party must send to the Court and to every other party copies of all

documents upon which that party intends to rely at the hearing. This includes the written statements

of themselves and of any other witnesses (if any)

 

Witness statements must:

a) start with the name of the case and the claim number

b) state the full name and address of the person making the statement

c) set out that persons evidence clearly and in numbered paragraphs on numbered pages

d) end with this paragraph: "I believe the facts stated in this witness statement are true"

e) be signed and dated by the person making the statement

 

SETTLEMENT

 

5. If the parties settle the case prior to the hearing they must immediately inform the Court of this fact.

6. This order having been made by the Court without a hearing, any party may apply to have the order

set aside, varied or stayed by issuing at Court an Application in Form N244 (and paying the relevant

fee or completing an Application for fee exemption). The Application in Form 244 must be issued

no later than 7 days after the date of service of this Order.

 

 

MEDIATION DIRECTIONS

 

7. List for mediation because one or all of the parties agree to mediation/judge considers suitable

for mediation.

 

Having considered the papers in your case, the court believes that your case is suitable for mediation. This is a

very simple process designed to give you the opportunity to resolve your dispute without having to attend a court

hearing. You will be contacted by the Small Claims Mediation Service with an offer of an appointment within

the next 21 days.

 

 

Please note that if you do not wish to undertake mediation, you can contact the Small Claims Mediation Service

by telephone on 0300 1234593 or email on [email protected] within 7 days of receipt of this order

 

If you contact the Small Claims Mediation Service by email please ensure you include a return telephone number,

and the case number. If you require any further information about mediation please contact the Small Claims

Mediation Service by email at the above email.

 

The mediation service is FREE. Mediation appointments are conducted by telephone and so do not involve you

having to attend court. The mediation appointment is limited to one hour, is confidential and can be done anytime

up to 10 working days before the final hearing. Further information on mediation is contained in the attached

information sheet or can be found at www.gov.uk.

 

WELSH LANGUAGE

 

8. If any party is legally represented then when filing any witness evidence, the legal representatives

must notify the Court in writing that:

a) they have advised their client of the entitlement of any party or witness to give evidence in the

Welsh Language in accordance with the Welsh Language Act 1993 (which is not dependant on

whether they are fluent in English)

b) instructions have been taken as to whether any party or witness will exercise that entitlement, in

which case the legal representatives must so inform the Court so that arrangements can be made by

the Court for instantaneous translation facilities to be made available without charge

9. Any unrepresented party or witness for such a party being entitled to give evidence in the Welsh

Language in accordance with the principle of the Welsh Language Act 1993 must notify the Court

when sending to the Court their witness evidence whether any party or witness will exercise that

entitlement whereupon the Court will make arrangements for instantaneous translation facilities to

be made available without charge

 

TRIAL BUNDLE

 

10. The Claimant must at least 7 days before the hearing send to the Court and to every other party

a hearing bundle containing all relevant documentation, with an index at the front and with each

page numbered. The bundle should be contained in a suitable ring binder. The bundle should always

contain copies of the following documents when relevant:

a) the claim form, the particulars of claim and the defence (and any counterclaim)

b) the witness statements

c) any expert evidence that the Court has allowed to be relied upon

d) any photographs

E-Bundle - 19.05.22.pdf

[Andyorch]

Just point 4 (by the 16th June) is applicable to you...draft a statement in support of your defence and attach any documents referred to in the statement.

 

Good to see its been allocated to Small Claims Track rather than Fast Track

 

Andy 

[smooth]

I'm not sure what I should be drafting strictly for my defence? I can type up a draft of my reasons for leaving the company, show proof I went back to my previous employer and proof I still remain here today (basically telling my side of the story / never gaining anything financially etc ) 

 

another point I want to raise is regarding the overpayment from memory I can't recall ever being sent documents that I was overpaid its only recently I have seen this stated in the papers I have been sent - they also say in the file I attached 'proof of which is in CP2' regarding the salary overpayment but there is no documentation of any letters being sent to me in the early years

 

Are you able to elaborate on what it means to be allocated to small claims over the fast track? 

 

Thank you 

[Andyorch]

Well you draft a statement and reasons and I will turn it into a compliant statement to support your initial defence. In Small Claims Track you are protected from the claimants costs (to a certain degree IE fixed) whereas in Fast Track their costs could exceed the initial claim amount.

 

 

.

[smooth]

wow, thanks Andy! are you able to elaborate on what points I should raise or any evidence I should produce? 

 

I'm able to produce payslips from the company I worked for before Brit gas and after / possibly employee contracts .. would this be required? 

 

I can type up a draft statement giving my reasons for leaving / not gaining anything financially ( basically just telling my story as direct as possible ) 

 

I also made contact with Brit Gas after leaving disputing the training bond and i was told to email a department which i did and I never heard anything until years later 

 

also, the training went on for approx 5 months majority of that was with a team - I only properly got a real feel for the job / work after that and left relatively quickly thereafter 

 

[Andyorch]

Its always easier to wait until you receive the claimants statement which supports their claim..then you can tailor your response statement to oppose their claim and why the claimants claim should be dismissed. That's assuming you have valid reasons why the their claim should be dismissed.

 

If you have not received their statement by say 13th June bump this topic for my attention.

[smooth]

Ah right ok. In the file I have attached there is a statement from a witness I believe, are you talking about that maybe? 

[Andyorch]

Yes ....if you can scan redact and upload a copy please.

[smooth]

8 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Yes ....if you can scan redact and upload a copy please.

The witness statement starts on page 20

 

E-Bundle - 19.05.22.pdf

[Andyorch]

Thanks I will peruse it tomorrow 

[smooth]

On 09/06/2022 at 22:51, Andyorch said:

Thanks I will peruse it tomorrow 

Hi Andy I was just wondering if you have managed to have a look? 

 

Thanks 

 

[Andyorch]

Yes I have now read it...have you prepared a rough draft in response of why you feel you do not owe this amount then I can incorporate your response into a suitable statement ?

[smooth]

Hi Andy i have typed up the below statement, also I have included emails I had received from Centrica at the time when I was disputing the training bond to which they stopped responding after i sent an email to a department I was advised to send it to, leaving me with the assumption the matter was closed. 

 

hopefully its all okay 

 

thank you again  

statment 1 pdf .pdf

[Andyorch]

Thanks...although that does not really explain why you don't owe the money rather than just explain the poor working environment and why you decided the work or BG wasn't for you. A court will only look at the facts in black and white...did they overpay you.?..did you have the money ? .....pay it back or explain why you wasn't over paid ?  

 

 

 

[smooth]

the overpayment i don't recall them ever asking for that, of course, what they're saying is probably correct and I will happily pay the overpaid wages. The training bond is my biggest dispute as it adds up to a very large sum. They make multiple points about the overpayment in the statement and then bundle in the training bond (it seems a bit off as there aren't multiple points regarding it like there are about the overpaid wages) -  whatever you can do to improve what I have already done would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Andy 

 

(sorry if my response isn't that helpful) 

[Andyorch]

Did you actually ever see any of this training bond (9K) was it paid with your salary ?

[smooth]

No how it worked, if I left in year 1 I would Be liable to pay £9,000, year 2 £6,000 and year 3 £3,000 .. if I worked past the 3 years then left I wouldn’t owe them anything. It’s basically a penalty and way for British Gas to stop you from leaving by threatening you with unintentional debt. Think they used the justification to ‘recoup‘ training cost